RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants?

RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (Full Version)

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RRafe -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 8:02:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: Kelika So what other things go into internal mastery? Do you think it’s for dominants only? If a submissive woman/man or slave is going to master themselves, what do you think that would entail? Is it different for submissive women and men to master themselves then for Dominants? Well wishes, Kelika in short.... If one doesn't have self-control... they can't give control to another for they don't have it themselves. Oh dear...........then that must mean that "My future master will mold me into the perfect slave, and take all respponsibility for everything I do."...........is a fantasy? How distressing-that one might have to make an effort.[:D]

scwomankf -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 9:35:16 AM)
Thank you so very much for your post. I am learning about this "lifestyle" and in many ways, I do not see drastic differences in how life should be lived between vanilla or alternative lifestyles. We are who we are, regardless of our sexual orientations. What I still have many questions about are the symbols that you mentioned, but bottom line, aren't the expressions of those "symbols" whatever is negotiated in the relationship between the D/s? I appreciate any and all feedback as I am here to learn! Everyone has something to share.....

KnightofMists -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 12:22:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe Oh dear...........then that must mean that "My future master will mold me into the perfect slave, and take all respponsibility for everything I do."...........is a fantasy? How distressing-that one might have to make an effort.[:D] well... I don't know I would call it a fantasy... since there are indeed those that attempt to travel this path.... of course.. the path is rather rocky at the best of times and one might consider it more a nightmare than fantasy

CuriousLord -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 12:33:56 PM)
Everyone should be better themselves. I can't see a connection to BDSM and this.

came4U -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 3:19:11 PM)
A woman should have her own esteem and betterment of judgement intact. Honestly, if a guy is the only ensurance for a gal's self-esteem and betterment via her submission is it truly submission or him doing something that her parents and community should have done? If a man chooses such a woman who is that weak in her own mental reserves and she is in need of mentorship that is of life-strategy tactics, isn't he manipulating an idiot? Isn't this the job of her friends, family and communitity and THEN she can come forward as a submissive out of need, not out of necessity by being a weaker individual? What kind of man chooses a weaker person? A weaker man. *this is no different from finding a foreign bride who soon learns independance, education and freedoms. She learns to live and thrive and thus it might be a short-term relationship once she finds herself. Men who want this sort of woman obviously are fooling themselves or only expect short-term. Because a REAL MAN would accept a full and capable woman who submits out of fulfillment, not out of necessity.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 4:08:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: Kelika So what other things go into internal mastery? Do you think it’s for dominants only? If a submissive woman/man or slave is going to master themselves, what do you think that would entail? Is it different for submissive women and men to master themselves then for Dominants? Well wishes, Kelika in short.... If one doesn't have self-control... they can't give control to another for they don't have it themselves. Oh dear...........then that must mean that "My future master will mold me into the perfect slave, and take all respponsibility for everything I do."...........is a fantasy? How distressing-that one might have to make an effort.[:D] LOL I had very little self control at a personal level. It was a skill my Master taught me. But he doesn't take responsibility for it. He says he provided the direction and parameters, and I did the work. But I gave him carte blanche authority and control over me. That means he took control of the areas I had no control over, until he taught me how to do it myself. So I would disagree with the above notion, unless I misunderstood it. So instead of saying, "Here, I control my conduct really well in Situation X", it was more like, "I have no idea what I'm doing in Situation X" so he took it over until he taught me to make more responsible decisions.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 4:15:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: came4U If a man chooses such a woman who is that weak in her own mental reserves and she is in need of mentorship that is of life-strategy tactics, isn't he manipulating an idiot? Isn't this the job of her friends, family and communitity and THEN she can come forward as a submissive out of need, not out of necessity by being a weaker individual? What kind of man chooses a weaker person? A weaker man. An interesting concept. If family, friends and community did not teach the woman such skills, and as such she does not yet realize her strength and potential, do you deem her to be a weak idiot? quote: this is no different from finding a foreign bride who soon learns independance, education and freedoms. She learns to live and thrive and thus it might be a short-term relationship once she finds herself. independence. It's no different than finding a foreign bride? Well I suppose it is taking a chance, yes, if he chooses someone with that kind of character trait. If he chooses someone with strong ethical values and principles, but who may have been misguided along the way, it's less of a risk. quote: Men who want this sort of woman obviously are fooling themselves or only expect short-term. Because a REAL MAN would accept a full and capable woman who submits out of fulfillment, not out of necessity. What of a woman who submits out of both? If it is being true to her nature to submit, wouldn't it then be that she needs to submit to find fulfillment? I know I find my own fulfillment in being true to myself, and being true to myself is to submit as deeply as I can to my Master, who, by the way, found me when I was lost and weak and an "idiot" and who know enjoys what we developed together, three years later, as a strong and thriving relationship between two very capable and adept people.

CuriousLord -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 4:36:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: came4U What kind of man chooses a weaker person? A weaker man. It is your position that only a weak man would enjoy the company of one he could mentor? Might I ask as to why you might believe this?

RRafe -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 7:39:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe Oh dear...........then that must mean that "My future master will mold me into the perfect slave, and take all respponsibility for everything I do."...........is a fantasy? How distressing-that one might have to make an effort.[:D] well... I don't know I would call it a fantasy... since there are indeed those that attempt to travel this path.... of course.. the path is rather rocky at the best of times and one might consider it more a nightmare than fantasy yes.... yes.........nightmare might be the apropriate term. I'd rather my dreams be delights.

RRafe -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 7:41:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: Kelika So what other things go into internal mastery? Do you think it’s for dominants only? If a submissive woman/man or slave is going to master themselves, what do you think that would entail? Is it different for submissive women and men to master themselves then for Dominants? Well wishes, Kelika in short.... If one doesn't have self-control... they can't give control to another for they don't have it themselves. Oh dear...........then that must mean that "My future master will mold me into the perfect slave, and take all respponsibility for everything I do."...........is a fantasy? How distressing-that one might have to make an effort.[:D] LOL I had very little self control at a personal level. It was a skill my Master taught me. But he doesn't take responsibility for it. He says he provided the direction and parameters, and I did the work. But I gave him carte blanche authority and control over me. That means he took control of the areas I had no control over, until he taught me how to do it myself. So I would disagree with the above notion, unless I misunderstood it. So instead of saying, "Here, I control my conduct really well in Situation X", it was more like, "I have no idea what I'm doing in Situation X" so he took it over until he taught me to make more responsible decisions. But you actually cooperated-so it worked. Most of the kind I meet who ask for this actively sabotage the whole thing-then blame the top for screwing it up-for "being weak." It's a total waste of time.

Kelika -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/17/2007 3:47:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: came4U A woman should have her own esteem and betterment of judgement intact. Honestly, if a guy is the only ensurance for a gal's self-esteem and betterment via her submission is it truly submission or him doing something that her parents and community should have done? If a man chooses such a woman who is that weak in her own mental reserves and she is in need of mentorship that is of life-strategy tactics, isn't he manipulating an idiot? Isn't this the job of her friends, family and communitity and THEN she can come forward as a submissive out of need, not out of necessity by being a weaker individual? What kind of man chooses a weaker person? A weaker man. This is hard for me to swallow also for this reason; there are a -ton- of people that come to this lifestyle having not understood that they were submissive and longed for this type of relationship but instead came from an abusive relationship. Also, there were some life skills I didn't have until I came into the lifestyle and I had a guide/mentor. I had come from a place where personally, I was in a relationshp from the time of 18-30 with the same person. Hell, someone that guided/mentored me helped me learn how to date as an adult...chuckles. Not to mention, self esteem -should- be something that your parents teach you but that isn't always the case and was NOT with me. I'm not going to go into details, but both of my parents were abusive. What my guides/mentors did in the beginning was keep me safe as possible from those that would do me harm. I think it's important to say I didn't come to this lifestyle out of lack of self esteem though, but something I had in me but didn't know what it was when I was as young as 14. I get the impression that to mentor/guide someone means you would take advantage of them from what you said. Hell, despite my best efforts one of my mentors has never done anything with me sexually or bdsm wise...lol. That was not the role he took and over the last 2 years 1/2 years he never breached certain things. He simply tried to help me become a better woman. If you don't have good people out there mentoring people, then those that do have issues when they come to this lifestyle are going to be eaten alive by people claiming to be dominant when in fact they are not. I see nothing wrong with a mentor/guide choosing to do help. That doesn't make them weaker at all. I think it makes them a good, caring, kind, honorable person (if they don't take advantage of it) who see something of value in that person and don't want them taken advantage of. But that's just me....

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