RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants?

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chellekitty -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 10:30:50 AM)
i've seen children with a better handle on themselves then a lot of adults.....

jaxnsax -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 10:36:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty i've seen children with a better handle on themselves then a lot of adults..... LOL, that may be true ChelleKitty but I have yet to see those of the young persuasion use the phrase ‘I have mastered myself’ in regards to ‘their handle on things’ J jaxon

angelic -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 10:38:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Satyr6406 Frequently, I've spoken to submissives who seem to say that since they're not presently owned, they see no need to "improve themselves". Others say that since they are not owned, they don't know in which direction they need to grow; they need to know what "He" wants her to be. Michael Not so long ago that is the way i looked at it too. i had no direction (i thought) and although i cannot pinpoint the exact moment that my way of thinking began to change, i found direction and it was simply going forward. There are times i actually visualize myself walking foward. i too am a work in progress. There was a time in my life i really felt like i needed a man to survive. Let's just say that sort of thinking only got me badly hurt. i am just now starting to grow from that hurt. i no longer need a man to be a whole person. i have my own struggles and difficulties, but i work through them myself. i know exactly the sort of Man i want and yes, it is a very small percentage of men that fit. Maybe eventually that window will grow a bit larger, but right now i am perfectly content in knowing what i want and not settling for less. i've said it many times, i would rather be alone and happy then with someone and miserable.

TreasureKY -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 10:41:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit The whole "Mastering yourself" thing is really just a buffed up and polished way of saying "growing into a mature adult". However, if people just said "growing into a mature adult" and not "striving to Master one's self", it would take away from the "WOW" factor of being a Dominant. I'm not sure I agree with you completely on this, MadRabbit. I think that often when submissives talk of wanting a master who has mastered himself, they think of not only emotional maturity but also life skills, as well. I don't know about you, but I know many "mature adults" who manage their lives, but aren't what I would consider accomplished at it. They aren't totally irresponsible, but they don't have much ability, either. There's also an area that can be somewhat sticky... a master who demands his submissive modify their behavior when he is unable to self-discipline himself to do the same or similar. Behaviors such as quit smoking, eat healthy, exercise, get an adequate night's rest, limit television or computer, broaden their education, etc.

jaxnsax -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 10:46:47 AM)
Greetings TreasureKy I was actually going to argue what you said, but, thinking about it and rereading it, I can see the point of what you said. I tend to think of the term ‘mastering oneself’ to mean nothing more than growing into a mature, responsible adult. But, as you stated, maturity and responsibility do not equal what one would sometimes think of as life skills. Interesting thought. Thank you jaxon

chiaThePet -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 11:12:52 AM)
Why i don't believe masturbating is a behavior exclusive only to Dominants. Self pleasure can be enjoyed by all if they simply apply themselves to such. Excuse me.......it's about what? Ohhhhhhhhh.........nevermind. Face it, we're all responsible for ourselves in the end if we wish to live with any semblance of happiness in life. If we become stagnant and dependent on others, we are simpy that. Hopes, dreams and desires inspire us, we are never finished growing or learning, if so, poor, poor, pititful you. However, there is no harm in asking for a hand up, or reaching out and offering a hand to uplift. There are many moments in this life we level the balance as we support one another. We may never "master" all which enters in our presence, but we sure can have a lot of fun trying. And mastering masturbation isn't altogether a bad idea either. chia* (the pet)

chellekitty -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 11:14:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chiaThePet And mastering masturbation isn't altogether a bad idea either. i know i sure am having fun trying, anyway...

murmur -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 12:25:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty i've seen children with a better handle on themselves then a lot of adults..... nods vigorously I've seen myself in what i know now to be flaws and qualities. Accepting and trying to ameliorate what you know you can work with is the most important. I believe you know yourself better when in contacts of others and that's why i never stop interacting with people. They show me so much of my inner potential and of what i want and dont want to be. I said it and i'll repeat it till my death. People are fascinating. [:D]

MadRabbit -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 12:59:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit The whole "Mastering yourself" thing is really just a buffed up and polished way of saying "growing into a mature adult". However, if people just said "growing into a mature adult" and not "striving to Master one's self", it would take away from the "WOW" factor of being a Dominant. I'm not sure I agree with you completely on this, MadRabbit. I think that often when submissives talk of wanting a master who has mastered himself, they think of not only emotional maturity but also life skills, as well. I don't know about you, but I know many "mature adults" who manage their lives, but aren't what I would consider accomplished at it. They aren't totally irresponsible, but they don't have much ability, either. There's also an area that can be somewhat sticky... a master who demands his submissive modify their behavior when he is unable to self-discipline himself to do the same or similar. Behaviors such as quit smoking, eat healthy, exercise, get an adequate night's rest, limit television or computer, broaden their education, etc. I would say these skill sets are the same as the ones that make an adult a good parent or a good manager at a company. Also what I consider to be a mature adult and you consider to be a mature adult is subjective. I dont argue that there isnt skill sets involved or that being in control of someone elses life doesnt require character. I'm aware of both. But...I argue that its a lot more practical and a lot more realistic than people on the Internet tend to make it out to be. People talk constantly about what is required to be a Master as if being a slave is just something anyone can be and I completely diagree. The misconception often presented is the God-like Master who has control over everything and its simply not the case. At the end of the day, given that we are two autonomous creatures who make their own decisions, I am really only in control of my own actions and the slave is in control of hers. Obedience is her responsibility. And being able to properly obey requires quite a lot of self control, emotional maturity, and self discpline. (The exception being anyone who has figured out some way to transfer all their autonomous choices to their Master and thus becomming about as useful and interesting as this chair I am sitting in) I can influence her decisions. I can discipline her. But still in the end...its on her to do her part. Personally, the criteria I look for in the slave is much the same as the criteria people look for in a Master. Someone who has their life together, someone who has self control, someone who is able to handle their emotions and not freak out at the first little order that causes them discomfort, someone who is responsible enough to carry out my orders, someone who will take responsibility for their part in making the authority dynamic work. The common misconception is of the uber Master who is solely responsible and in control of the relationship and everything that goes wrong is his fault. My experiences have taught me its not the case at all. Its a relationship just like any other where I do my part and she does her part and everything flows smoothly. Both people bring things to the table. You dont want a Master who doesnt create double standards by his lack of self discipline and responsibility. I dont want a slave who doesnt have enough self discipline and responsibility to get off her ass and do her part.

TreasureKY -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 2:02:25 PM)
There's no real disagreement here, MadRabbit. I believe that being mature and responsible is desirable for both dom and sub alike, and also that there are some pretty silly preconceived notions about dominants, and D/s relationships in general. I do think you are right in that "mature adult" is subjective. What you may consider a mature adult might not meet my criteria for considering someone to have "mastered themselves"... and even what I consider a mature adult still might not meet that criteria. My point was that I don't think it's always quite as simple as saying someone is a mature adult.

TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 2:37:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit The whole "Mastering yourself" thing is really just a buffed up and polished way of saying "growing into a mature adult". However, if people just said "growing into a mature adult" and not "striving to Master one's self", it would take away from the "WOW" factor of being a Dominant. I'm not sure I agree with you completely on this, MadRabbit. I think that often when submissives talk of wanting a master who has mastered himself, they think of not only emotional maturity but also life skills, as well. I don't know about you, but I know many "mature adults" who manage their lives, but aren't what I would consider accomplished at it. They aren't totally irresponsible, but they don't have much ability, either. There's also an area that can be somewhat sticky... a master who demands his submissive modify their behavior when he is unable to self-discipline himself to do the same or similar. Behaviors such as quit smoking, eat healthy, exercise, get an adequate night's rest, limit television or computer, broaden their education, etc. I would say these skill sets are the same as the ones that make an adult a good parent or a good manager at a company. Also what I consider to be a mature adult and you consider to be a mature adult is subjective. I dont argue that there isnt skill sets involved or that being in control of someone elses life doesnt require character. I'm aware of both. But...I argue that its a lot more practical and a lot more realistic than people on the Internet tend to make it out to be. People talk constantly about what is required to be a Master as if being a slave is just something anyone can be and I completely diagree. The misconception often presented is the God-like Master who has control over everything and its simply not the case. At the end of the day, given that we are two autonomous creatures who make their own decisions, I am really only in control of my own actions and the slave is in control of hers. Obedience is her responsibility. And being able to properly obey requires quite a lot of self control, emotional maturity, and self discpline. (The exception being anyone who has figured out some way to transfer all their autonomous choices to their Master and thus becomming about as useful and interesting as this chair I am sitting in) I can influence her decisions. I can discipline her. But still in the end...its on her to do her part. Personally, the criteria I look for in the slave is much the same as the criteria people look for in a Master. Someone who has their life together, someone who has self control, someone who is able to handle their emotions and not freak out at the first little order that causes them discomfort, someone who is responsible enough to carry out my orders, someone who will take responsibility for their part in making the authority dynamic work. The common misconception is of the uber Master who is solely responsible and in control of the relationship and everything that goes wrong is his fault. My experiences have taught me its not the case at all. Its a relationship just like any other where I do my part and she does her part and everything flows smoothly. Both people bring things to the table. You dont want a Master who doesnt create double standards by his lack of self discipline and responsibility. I dont want a slave who doesnt have enough self discipline and responsibility to get off her ass and do her part. Madrabbit..I find myself a bit confused on one section of your post that maybe you could help clarify..(sorry the cut and paste abilities have gotten the better of me.)to the section of we are two autonomous creatures who make their own decisions..you are only in control of your actions and the slave is in control of hers and that obedience is her responsibility...now the question..If you are 2 autonomous creatures in control of your own actions,but yet obedience is her responsibility..then how do you think that you are not also responsible for your submissives actions as well?..That you have no responsibility even when her actions are ruled by obedience to you?This essentially tells me that possibly you wish for an autonomous submissive, obedient to you..without you accepting any responsibility..I have in my minds eye a man throwing up his hands and saying "whoa!,,I might of told my submissive to do that, but man she is an adult, she didnt have to"....thus you are resolved in your own mind as to your part in any action she may have done...so Madrabbit can you clarify?...Tempting

RaynaSub -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 2:59:42 PM)
Who wants anyone as a partner whose life is out of control, PRIOR to their getting together? If you can't control yourself as a single person, how are you going to manage to live your life and submit to a Dominant person?

MadRabbit -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 3:07:49 PM)
Sure, I will gladly clarify. Its her responsibility to... -Get clarifcation on any parts of my orders that she doesnt understand. -Provide me with any information or opinions she has as to why this order is a bad idea or worst case scenario, harmful to her so I may reconsider my decision -And most importantly, her responsibility to control her emotions or feelings she has over an order and mentally and physically carry out the order. These things are her responsibility because I am not God, cant read her thoughts, dont know everything and cannot control her mind and body with puppet strings. If she makes a mistake or doesnt do things correctly, then she is accountable. If I dont make her accountable, then she cant improve. If she does what I say, then the end result is my responsibilty and I am accountable because it was because of my will, my decision, and my actions. In no way whatsoever do I consider myself "free" of the responsbility of making good decisions. What I mean by autonomous individuals is that I can tell someone to eat an apple over an orange, but they still have to actually make the choice in their head to listen to me and eat the apple.

TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 3:48:32 PM)
Ahh..Now that I can understand..thank you...Tempting

RRafe -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 6:36:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelic quote: ORIGINAL: Satyr6406 Frequently, I've spoken to submissives who seem to say that since they're not presently owned, they see no need to "improve themselves". Others say that since they are not owned, they don't know in which direction they need to grow; they need to know what "He" wants her to be. Michael Not so long ago that is the way i looked at it too. i had no direction (i thought) and although i cannot pinpoint the exact moment that my way of thinking began to change, i found direction and it was simply going forward. There are times i actually visualize myself walking foward. i too am a work in progress. There was a time in my life i really felt like i needed a man to survive. Let's just say that sort of thinking only got me badly hurt. i am just now starting to grow from that hurt. i no longer need a man to be a whole person. i have my own struggles and difficulties, but i work through them myself. i know exactly the sort of Man i want and yes, it is a very small percentage of men that fit. Maybe eventually that window will grow a bit larger, but right now i am perfectly content in knowing what i want and not settling for less. i've said it many times, i would rather be alone and happy then with someone and miserable. I only have one phrase for subs who refuse to advance themselves. "silly putty."

came4U -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/15/2007 8:41:32 PM)
quote: I only have one phrase for subs who refuse to advance themselves. "silly putty." I prefer a man with a powerful, high pay occupation. Lots of play-dough. lol

Focus50 -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 4:21:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 I own my own home, am debt free and have money in the bank. I have a stable job and strong work ethic in general. And such individuals never have temper tantrums, never abuse the wife, never kick the puppy and never mistreat anyone? I was unaware that being financially successful cured all these problems. And yet, I knew an individual richer than God, who -bought- his mother a home, who was in a near constant state of intoxication and who couldn't string three sentences together without one of them being insulting. Yet with his boss, co-workers and clients he was smart enough to be polite because that was the only way to ensure his pay cheque. I see nothing wrong with anyone asking me how I developed my self-control. Why should such a question be considered offensive? I don't need a cure for problems I don't have! But you think I lack self control because I didn't specifically mention it? Convenient of you to delete the precursor to the passage you quoted, btw.... Maybe you should try speaking for yourself instead of putting your own ill-informed spin to other's opinions; whaddayarekkon? Focus.

SirDraco7 -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 5:52:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kelika So what other things go into internal mastery? Do you think it’s for dominants only? If a submissive woman/man or slave is going to master themselves, what do you think that would entail? Is it different for submissive women and men to master themselves then for Dominants? Well wishes, Kelika Good post. I agree. Anyone can Master Themselves. And it's just as important for everyone. I see it as just understanding yourself. Knowing your weaknesses and working to overcome them. Knowing exactly who you are. Controling and understanding emotions, being strong emotionally. Basically YOU control yourself. Not your situation, not your emotions, not your feelings or fears. But You. Just my opinion of such. :)

Kelika -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 6:19:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY I don't know about you, but I know many "mature adults" who manage their lives, but aren't what I would consider accomplished at it. They aren't totally irresponsible, but they don't have much ability, either. There's also an area that can be somewhat sticky... a master who demands his submissive modify their behavior when he is unable to self-discipline himself to do the same or similar. Behaviors such as quit smoking, eat healthy, exercise, get an adequate night's rest, limit television or computer, broaden their education, etc. Bingo Treasure! That is an awesome statement! For me, that means the ability to step up to the plate when life throws several curve balls at once, and not fall flat on my face. Handling one crisis is easy compared to handling several. So, I feel that I have managed to change most of the frustration I had felt before when that would happen. I go to Al-Alonon which is a support group for those who have alcoholics in their life (whether recovered or not) and one of the things that helped me was hearing "I didn't cause it, I can't cure it, I can't control it, I can only cope and cope the best I can". That right there along with my spirituality of I will not be given more than what I can handle has let me let go of a lot of unnecessary attempts at things I have no control over. Why get frustrated if I can't control them? Why not just use it as an opportunity to learn and grow? To me, being able to do these things is healthy and I'm "mastering" them. Thank you all again for some -wonderful- insight and thoughts. I really appreciate the time you take to share them so that I can learn and grow. Well wishes, Kelika

KnightofMists -> RE: Is mastering yourself only something for Dominants? (9/16/2007 7:49:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kelika So what other things go into internal mastery? Do you think it’s for dominants only? If a submissive woman/man or slave is going to master themselves, what do you think that would entail? Is it different for submissive women and men to master themselves then for Dominants? Well wishes, Kelika in short.... If one doesn't have self-control... they can't give control to another for they don't have it themselves.

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