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RE: The difference between play, and doing a scene: - 9/15/2007 1:16:00 PM

missturbation

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there is no slavery in any of the western world,
I am slave to Sir so there it is, slavery in the western world.

Western society simply doesn't support slavery.
Since when did what we don't support not exist?

For slavery to be "real" in my mind, that choice would need to be removed.
I appreciate your opinion but my slavery is real to me and thats all that counts.

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RE: The difference between play, and doing a scene: - 9/15/2007 1:24:12 PM

teamnoir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

there is no slavery in any of the western world,
I am slave to Sir so there it is, slavery in the western world.

I understand that you see it this way.

To me, genuine slavery requires not only an interpersonal relationship, but also a social one.

quote:

Western society simply doesn't support slavery.
Since when did what we don't support not exist?

Since supporting it was part of the definition of existence.

quote:

For slavery to be "real" in my mind, that choice would need to be removed.
I appreciate your opinion but my slavery is real to me and thats all that counts.

I'm happy that you are enjoying your relationship. And I have no intention of changing that or of persuading you otherwise. You can call it whatever you like.

And so can I.

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RE: The difference between play, and doing a scene: - 9/15/2007 1:27:08 PM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: teamnoir

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

there is no slavery in any of the western world,
I am slave to Sir so there it is, slavery in the western world.

I understand that you see it this way.

To me, genuine slavery requires not only an interpersonal relationship, but also a social one.
Not to be picky here but socially my friends etc except that i am Sirs slave so i do have a social relationship.

quote:

Western society simply doesn't support slavery.
Since when did what we don't support not exist?

Since supporting it was part of the definition of existence.
Ok i dont support animal cruelty but it exists.

quote:

For slavery to be "real" in my mind, that choice would need to be removed.
I appreciate your opinion but my slavery is real to me and thats all that counts.

I'm happy that you are enjoying your relationship. And I have no intention of changing that or of persuading you otherwise. You can call it whatever you like.

And so can I.

yep

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RE: The difference between play, and doing a scene: - 9/15/2007 2:24:36 PM

teamnoir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Not to be picky here but socially my friends etc except that i am Sirs slave so i do have a social relationship.

I don't see that as social. I see that as a small group scene.

Social would be when complete strangers agree that you do not have the right to leave the relationship on your own accord. Social would be when law enforcement and/or a court of law would return you to your owner if you ran away.

quote:

Ok i dont support animal cruelty but it exists.

Yes, it does. In that sense, slavery exists also, but it's a criminal act.

Are you claiming to be involved in a criminal act? Are you asking for us to intervene on your behalf?

If your answer to both of those questions is "no", then in my opinion, you are not a slave in the same sense as many black folks in america were once slaves, nor are you involved in modern day criminal "white slavery". Pick any term you like, but I find it necessary to distinguish your style of "slavery" from theirs. The two things are, in my opinion, significantly different.

To me, the very context of your relationship is something other than what is claimed, and hence, while SM activity within that context may seem very real to you, and I recognize that to you it seems very real and not play-like at all, I see it as real only in the same sense that your relationship is exactly like the state of many black americans some time ago - which is to say, rather significantly different from "real".

I'm not entirely comfortable saying that your slavery isn't real. I'm sure your relationship is real and that it includes some non-vanilla aspects that you think of as "slavery". However, I'm just as sure that it isn't the same thing as what black americans once experienced and I'm grasping for a word or phrase to clarify that distinction.

< Message edited by teamnoir -- 9/15/2007 2:26:23 PM >

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RE: The difference between play, and doing a scene: - 9/15/2007 5:46:26 PM

MasterShibari

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She has given up her will by choice, as oppossed to having it taken away from her by birth.

However, I believe that makes her claim of being a "slave" no less valid. Yes, it was not something she was born into, but many historical slaves were not born into slavery either. Throughout history, there have been people who have sold themselves into slavery willingly in order to pay off a debt. The Romans employed this form of human currency quite frequently.

However, one key destinction exists between that form of slavery and the form found today in BDSM. If missturbation decided to run away from her Master tomorrow, the local authorities would not help her Master track her down and recapture her. She is a slave yes, but she is living in a society that does not believe in slavery, and so would not enforce it if she chose to flee. In fact, they would even assist her flight.

M. Shibari

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RE: The difference between play, and doing a scene: - 9/15/2007 6:39:55 PM

RRafe

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I'm way beyond worrying about stuff like this now. I usually won;t scene or play with anyone who puts me through a scripted rigamarole-makes me feel like a sub.

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RE: The difference between play, and doing a scene: - 9/15/2007 6:51:44 PM

MasterShibari

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

I'm way beyond worrying about stuff like this now. I usually won;t scene or play with anyone who puts me through a scripted rigamarole-makes me feel like a sub.

Even with new people?

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RE: The difference between play, and doing a scene: - 9/15/2007 6:55:18 PM

RRafe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShibari

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

I'm way beyond worrying about stuff like this now. I usually won;t scene or play with anyone who puts me through a scripted rigamarole-makes me feel like a sub.

Even with new people?

With newbies I just go slow and we try a few things. I'll ask in advance-but the choice of options is mine. But I'm not going
to plan everything down to the nth detail.

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RE: The difference between play, and doing a scene: - 9/15/2007 7:42:41 PM

ownedkitten

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There was a discussion on a list I belong to very similar to this - asking for definitions and differences in the terms play, session and scene. These are the answers that Master and I came up with for how we "do it."

Play - This refers to any time we engage in BDSM type activities such as the use of restraints, flogging, etc.

Session - Any period of time set aside for a specific goal. We use three main kinds of sessions - play, training, service. A play session is designed to fit into the daily routine to fulfill the needs of the sadist and masochist for personal pleasure. A training session can be either domestic, protocol or sexual, as an example. We use the term "service in attendance" when I remove all outside stimuli (computer, dog, tv, etc) and focus only on Him. It is a service session.

Scene - I can understand scene being used in the role play sense, and I agree, but we use it slightly differently. It is used to describe a focused and usually more intense session, normally done outside of the daily routine. A scene is a more formal type interaction - we use a higher protocol, the distractions of daily life are normally removed, more often we go to the dungeon to have access to specific implements. A scene can also be used to work on tolerance/boundaries during play sessions, His skills with "toys" and such. He tends to be more serious and "get down to business" during a scene than a play session.

< Message edited by ownedkitten -- 9/15/2007 7:43:01 PM >

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RE: The difference between play, and doing a scene: - 9/17/2007 5:04:37 AM

willowspirit

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Some here in Minnesota used the term "Business" for S & M play, or a session / scene. I was listening yesterday to a 70 year old Dominant talk about terms and behaviors and traditions among the "Old Guard/ Leather" people several decades ago.
"It's time to get down to business". "I was doing business last night". "We were heavy into business".

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RE: The difference between play, and doing a scene: - 9/17/2007 7:30:15 AM

kikinymph

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A scene (in my lil world anyway) is the same as "session" (altho I just don't like that word--sounds like I am goin' to the psych doc). A scene or session is just a particular time where specific types of activity will be happening. It tends to be much less sexual in nature, a bit more planned or structured. Play? It is more spontaneous and can happen anywhere. Sire can text message me while I am grocery shopping--and have some fun--that is PLAY, not a scene lol.

I tend to equate things like this: When you watch kids play with their friends, and the game just happens or evolves, and is ongoing, every day... so that when the kids come in for evening "business" and they set aside play time --but siblings continue the game, just a bit less intense...then go back outside and play with their friends and just take up right where they left off...that is PLAY! But if you are taking the kids to a Play Date: That is the equivilent to a SCENE. Play happens everyday...scenes normally don't--they can tho. It's all a grey area, and no REAL solid lines, except between the people invovled in the play/scene/session/etc.

Kiki, who is now confuzzled this Monday morning!

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RE: The difference between play, and doing a scene: - 9/17/2007 4:53:21 PM

MasterShibari

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So does everyone believe there should be a uniform system of communication with standardized meanings, or should we continue to just have seperate and idividual meanings?

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