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Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 8:44:03 AM   
kossack


Posts: 82
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		To quote Tom Lehrer: "Plagiarize, let no one else's work evade your eyes!  Remember why the good lord made your eyes, so plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize.  Only to be careful call it, please, research." 

Is that the guiding motto here?

Why are people plagiarizing in their journals and profiles!  How rampant is it?  3 times now I've thought "Wow, that was well written" and 3 times, I used "the google" and, voila, it was well written, and on several other webpages. 

If you like something, cite it.  No one will think less of you.  For example, the fact that I used a Tom Lehrer quote probably didn't make anyone think I didn't have a right to post it.  Why can't a person, even a dominant man, say "The Awakening" by Sonny Carroll really moved me" and then use those little "quotation marks." 

I could never surrender to a man that stole someone's ideas and passed them off as his own, but I could surrender to a man who was strong enough to admit he was moved by someone else's work.
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RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 8:47:44 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		People don't think of "internet" stuff as being creative works owned by someone else- which is amusing in a sub culture that carries on so much about the importance and meaning of "ownership."  But point it out as you see it and it will be remembered.

_____________________________

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(in reply to kossack)
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RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 8:50:58 AM   
kossack


Posts: 82
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

People don't think of "internet" stuff as being creative works owned by someone else- which is amusing in a sub culture that carries on so much about the importance and meaning of "ownership."  But point it out as you see it and it will be remembered.


Good points, all around, but I'm just not sure I could actually point it out.  I mean, if someone e-mailed me, I might, but to just e-mail someone out of the blue and point out that his journal or profile was plagiarized, that feels too bitchy to me.  I'd rather just vent on the boards!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 8:54:07 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		Internet quotes from nonsense people would be a waste of time and energy. Althought plagerism of published works (non-public) is wrong and illegal.

If some guy captured some work/profile as his own, in my field I would know it.  Otherwise, he / others are on their own.  Steal from my work, you PAY!.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 8:54:57 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		how are you going to get to know someone when they are using someone else's material. If someone can not speak their own thoughts or convey their own messages. who are they ?

(in reply to kossack)
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RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 8:58:06 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		You can't,

people that use other's quotes constantly have a shortage of their own ideals.

It shows a lack of imagination/education in a man.

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
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RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 8:58:20 AM   
kossack


Posts: 82
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

Internet quotes from nonsense people would be a waste of time and energy. Althought plagerism of published works (non-public) is wrong and illegal.


Are you saying it is a waste of time and energy to cite a source just because it was published first on the internet and the person isn't famous?  Personally, I believe my integrity is more important than where something was first published and whether that person is famous.

And legally, you are wrong.  It is just as much plagiarism to steal from a blog than from a published book. 

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 8:59:41 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		<laffs at blogs.

It is like stealing from an unpublished personal diary. How Cheezy.

(unless your site is copywrited, anyone can steal from it). But, who would want to?  If they are so great at their skill they can go to a publisher, or even online publisher.  Otherwise, if you like it, you quote it and post the orig. author.




< Message edited by came4U -- 9/7/2007 9:01:56 AM >

(in reply to kossack)
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RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 9:03:38 AM   
TheIronHorse


Posts: 149
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kossack

To quote Tom Lehrer: "Plagiarize, let no one else's work evade your eyes!  Remember why the good lord made your eyes, so plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize.  Only to be careful call it, please, research." 

Is that the guiding motto here?

Why are people plagiarizing in their journals and profiles!  How rampant is it?  3 times now I've thought "Wow, that was well written" and 3 times, I used "the google" and, voila, it was well written, and on several other webpages. 

If you like something, cite it.  No one will think less of you.  For example, the fact that I used a Tom Lehrer quote probably didn't make anyone think I didn't have a right to post it.  Why can't a person, even a dominant man, say "The Awakening" by Sonny Carroll really moved me" and then use those little "quotation marks." 

I could never surrender to a man that stole someone's ideas and passed them off as his own, but I could surrender to a man who was strong enough to admit he was moved by someone else's work.


I see much poetry on CM that isn't properly attributed to its writer.  I dont like it when it's used in place of  ones own content. 

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 9:09:10 AM   
kossack


Posts: 82
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U
<laffs at blogs.

It is like stealing from an unpublished personal diary. How Cheezy.

(unless your site is copywrited, anyone can steal from it). But, who would want to?  If they are so great at their skill they can go to a publisher, or even online publisher.  Otherwise, if you like it, you quote it and post the orig. author.


I believe you are operating from an outdated view.  Anything that anyone writes is automatically protected as that person's intellectual property.  See http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

quote:

If it doesn't have a copyright notice, it's not copyrighted."
This was true in the past, but today almost all major nations follow the Berne copyright convention. For example, in the USA, almost everything created privately and originally after April 1, 1989 is copyrighted and protected whether it has a notice or not. The default you should assume for other people's works is that they are copyrighted and may not be copied unless you know otherwise. There are some old works that lost protection without notice, but frankly you should not risk it unless you know for sure.

(in reply to came4U)
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RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 9:15:57 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		All they have to do is put quotation marks around it.
Like, "..........."
Then you know they're "quoting" from another source.

_____________________________

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(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 9:21:39 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

(unless your site is copywrited, anyone can steal from it).


Well, kinda, sorta....no.

As soon as someone creates an original work, the copyright exists. Registering it merely helps defend against claims later on.

And people can take from your website and not be guilty of anything until you track them down and tell them, and they refuse to remove it. (Unless things have changed recently).

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 9:28:52 AM   
TheIronHorse


Posts: 149
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

All they have to do is put quotation marks around it.
Like, "..........."
Then you know they're "quoting" from another source.


To truly quote someone,  the quoter must state the name of the author and the source of  the original passage. 

Copyright, TheIronHorse 2007



(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 9:31:48 AM   
TheIronHorse


Posts: 149
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

(unless your site is copywrited, anyone can steal from it).


Well, kinda, sorta....no.

As soon as someone creates an original work, the copyright exists. Registering it merely helps defend against claims later on.

And people can take from your website and not be guilty of anything until you track them down and tell them, and they refuse to remove it. (Unless things have changed recently).


Anyone can attach Copyright Joe Shmoe  to any passage they write and have a level of legal protection.  One does NOT have to submit any form to any governing body.

What we're talking about is people who boost passages in place of original content.

Yes, the internet has really blurred the line of copyright law.  Most written material can be excerpted under Fair Use laws for non commercial purposes.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 9:36:48 AM   
kossack


Posts: 82
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheIronHorse
Yes, the internet has really blurred the line of copyright law.  Most written material can be excerpted under Fair Use laws for non commercial purposes.


Just a clarification, though, Fair Use allows you to use it, with citation.  It is not fair use to pass something off as your own work.

(in reply to TheIronHorse)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 9:42:24 AM   
TheIronHorse


Posts: 149
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kossack

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheIronHorse
Yes, the internet has really blurred the line of copyright law.  Most written material can be excerpted under Fair Use laws for non commercial purposes.


Just a clarification, though, Fair Use allows you to use it, with citation.  It is not fair use to pass something off as your own work.


That is correct.  Fair Use requires the author and publishing source to be properly accredited to the passage.

I often quote articles in my work, provide a snippet and link back to the originating source so readers can get the whole scoop, not just what I have provided.

As a matter of fact,  I sit in on a weekly internet conference and we were hashing out a particular discrepancy in an engineering standard.  After hammering out the details, we all went on our way.   The next day, one of the attendees offered AS HIS SOLUTION, the clarifcation we collectively hammered out in group. 

Next week the conference archive will be copyrighted.



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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 9:47:12 AM   
ChainsandFreedom


Posts: 222
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah kossack, it pisses me off too.

I used to be a tutor. An esl student, girl from the dominican republic, spent like half her session arguing with me that 'The road not taken' was a poem she wrote herself. She wouldn't hear it that Frost was read by everyone, that he was the national poet for awhile, that this was her autobio that said nothing about having been to anywhere with snow before literally that month, ect.

Quotes on profiles mean you've read, maybe are even well read, and have good taste. No matter how smart you are if you wrote it yourself, there's still a high probability what you wrote it bullshit. Quoted words tend to make a persons profile more credible to me, like they've looked into things done some reasearch and know what their talking about.

And if you have a quote word for word already, it's so EASY not to plagerise that it makes me think they actually ARE trying to pass it off as their own.

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RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 9:50:14 AM   
kossack


Posts: 82
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheIronHorse
I often quote articles in my work, provide a snippet and link back to the originating source so readers can get the whole scoop, not just what I have provided.


Wow--that sounds like you are having respect for the original ideas and viewing it as a collaborative conversation instead of a competition where only one person can come out on top--what a weird way to do things! ;)

(in reply to TheIronHorse)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 10:00:42 AM   
TheIronHorse


Posts: 149
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kossack

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheIronHorse
I often quote articles in my work, provide a snippet and link back to the originating source so readers can get the whole scoop, not just what I have provided.


Wow--that sounds like you are having respect for the original ideas and viewing it as a collaborative conversation instead of a competition where only one person can come out on top--what a weird way to do things! ;)


I'm not a professional writer, however, I have contributed to print and internet publications.  I have enough confidence in my abilities as to weather the win-lose mentality of others. 

(in reply to kossack)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Plagiarism! - 9/7/2007 1:09:09 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Well you don't always need to put quotation marks. You only need quotation marks when you are using something someone said or wrote word for word. If you are simply using the author's information in your statement, all you have to do is inbed the source in the writing.

(in reply to TheIronHorse)
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