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RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 6:18:31 PM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

Anybody who supports the war can either

1) Go fight

2) Co-sign a loan to pay for keeping us over there.

Then when it works out the way it will eventually work out and we leave, you people can pay the tab, and the
rest of us wont get stuck with the check after your little party.

Sinergy

p.s. Doubt the people supporting the war will be that supportive if you do that.

     Let's have a little fun with your logic, Sinergy. How about Progressives take on all the obligations of the welfare state? All the third generation, wastes of skin who have never worked and never will, can move into your neighborhood, with your taxes paying 85% of the rent, while the gang-tagging drives your property values down. There will need to be a special line at the grocery store where only liberals ever get stuck standing there hearing "what you mean I can't buy Tanqueray with my food stamps" while their ice cream melts in the cart.

     Welcome to the wonderful world of Democracy. Your side lost. If you don't care for it, do feel free to explore your options under other systems, in other places.

     Iraq is America's problem.

I'd say you need to come up with a much better parellell: Someone that lives in a rented apartment could surely careless about property values and spray-can graffiti.

- R

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 41

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 6:21:13 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

When I assert that a surrender/retreat would be a bad choice, I'm saying that knowing it places two brothers in harm's way. Does that count?

It does to me. It means, I think, that you're weighing your views carefully, with a vivid awareness of the potential costs.

I hope your brothers come home safely and will keep them in my prayers.

Thanks, DC. Just to clarify though, both are currently stateside. If deployments are scheduled, they don't know about it. A quick withdrawal would ensure they never go back.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 42

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 6:43:07 PM

luckydog1

Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline

Wow Mnot, that would be because I did not post any links. I gave you some information from your link.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 43

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 8:38:30 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

We've had a lot of posts about Iraq here at dear old Collarme, and supporters of the war have said many things about why we needed to invade Iraq and must remain there now.

I've noticed an interesting omission, though. I've yet to see anyone say, "I believe in the Iraq war, and I'm enlisting to fight it." Support for the war seems to rest on the handy assumption that other people will attend to the minor details of fighting and dying.

You don't know many active-duty military people, do you?

pollux:
I know lots of active duty military. The warriors amongst them could care less who the target is...it is all about the "rock and roll".
The non warriors are not much in favor of the war in Iraq as they view it as a war of aggression and aggrandizement in which they are asked to bleed and die for the benefit of the rich.
thompson

Great. I know a lot too, and while they hold a variety of opinions on the Iraq war specifically, to a man, none of them accepts this "chickenhawk" crap. They see it as their choice to be a professional soldier. They do not expect EVERYONE to make the same choice, and at the same time they understand that our society is based around a system of values where EVERYONE has a right to express an opinion - pro OR con -- regardless of whether they are a combat vet or not.

So, the next time you're hanging out with your combat buddies ask them what they think of a Constitutional amendment requiring the President of the US to be a military vet with combat experience (or to be eligible and to volunteer for combat), because that's exactly where the logic of this bullshit "chickenhawk" argument leads.

Btw, I'm not active duty military (too old unfortunately), but I'm a civilian volunteer attached to the US Army Reserve Casualty Assistance Office, so anyone who thinks I'm removed from the human cost of this war or that I have no right to express an opinion for or against it, can kiss my ass.

pollux:
While I understand what you posted I do not understand how it relates to what I posted and you quoted.
As for the age thing I am significantly older than you and Uncle Sugar sent me a request for my presence in this current fiasco...yeah I wiped my ass with it and mailed it back.
thompson

(in reply to pollux)

Post #: 44

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 8:48:54 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

Rich:
I am unclear as to just how leaving Iraq puts any U.S. personnel at risk.
I am also unclear why you continue to refer to us leaving Iraq as "surrender and/or retreat"
If you punch someone because you thought they had done you wrong and subsequently find out that they had not a gentleman apologizes only a punk continues to assert the untrue.
thompson

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 45

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 8:57:43 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

If you punch someone because you thought they had done you wrong and subsequently find out that they had not a gentleman apologizes only a punk continues to assert the untrue.
thompson

Personally, I think anybody who supports the Mess-o-potamia deserves a much more vituperative expletive than "punk," but I am willing to compromise and ascribe said sobriquet to the War In Iraq Cheerleading Squad.

You analogy, by the way, is spot on.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 46

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 9:31:32 PM

pollux

Posts: 657
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

We've had a lot of posts about Iraq here at dear old Collarme, and supporters of the war have said many things about why we needed to invade Iraq and must remain there now.

I've noticed an interesting omission, though. I've yet to see anyone say, "I believe in the Iraq war, and I'm enlisting to fight it." Support for the war seems to rest on the handy assumption that other people will attend to the minor details of fighting and dying.

You don't know many active-duty military people, do you?

pollux:
I know lots of active duty military. The warriors amongst them could care less who the target is...it is all about the "rock and roll".
The non warriors are not much in favor of the war in Iraq as they view it as a war of aggression and aggrandizement in which they are asked to bleed and die for the benefit of the rich.
thompson

Great. I know a lot too, and while they hold a variety of opinions on the Iraq war specifically, to a man, none of them accepts this "chickenhawk" crap. They see it as their choice to be a professional soldier. They do not expect EVERYONE to make the same choice, and at the same time they understand that our society is based around a system of values where EVERYONE has a right to express an opinion - pro OR con -- regardless of whether they are a combat vet or not.

So, the next time you're hanging out with your combat buddies ask them what they think of a Constitutional amendment requiring the President of the US to be a military vet with combat experience (or to be eligible and to volunteer for combat), because that's exactly where the logic of this bullshit "chickenhawk" argument leads.

Btw, I'm not active duty military (too old unfortunately), but I'm a civilian volunteer attached to the US Army Reserve Casualty Assistance Office, so anyone who thinks I'm removed from the human cost of this war or that I have no right to express an opinion for or against it, can kiss my ass.

pollux:
While I understand what you posted I do not understand how it relates to what I posted and you quoted.

Read it again.

quote:

As for the age thing I am significantly older than you and Uncle Sugar sent me a request for my presence in this current fiasco...yeah I wiped my ass with it and mailed it back.
thompson

I'm guessing you're prior service. I'm not.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 47

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 9:52:58 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

If you punch someone because you thought they had done you wrong and subsequently find out that they had not a gentleman apologizes only a punk continues to assert the untrue.
thompson

You analogy, by the way, is spot on.

Sinergy

(this is convenient

)

Thompson; What we have brought into Iraq is a lot more than a punch in the nose. We not only shoved them off a bridge into a river, we stocked the damn river with crocodiles. That requires a bit more than saying "oops, sorry," and walking away.

Sinergy; Wrong.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 48

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 10:04:57 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

I thought the war was an extreme reaction from the beginning (even if understandable, somewhat, due to Bush's maybe feeling he should "do something" as a response to 9/11).

I don't want to go over there. No. I am not a "camper type". Where would I plug in my curling iron? Where are the good restaurants in Iraq? I am also a complete wuss when it comes to things like blood-shed. They probably wouldn't even have me in the Military. I'd be laughed out of my own platoon. It would be worse than that movie "Private Benjamin".

I am not trying to be snide, or make light of the war (I'm not). I am extremely grateful (truly I am) that other people are doing the fighting - otherwise, I might not have a choice. I owe those soldiers a LOT. A helluva lot. I realize that.

But no, I don't want to go there, I admit it fully. I don't like the idea of being shot at, being in 140 degree heat all day, and they don't pay those folks near what I think they are earning with all of their hard work and sweat. It is not an attractive option to me.

I would go if I was drafted (and beat those Iraqis over the head with my blow dryer). Actually, if I was ticked off enough, I could be dangerous with a gun, I think (good thing they'd have a "training period" for me, If I did go) .

I realize the war is not a laughing matter, and I am grateful (I guess) that others are there. Actually - I wish no American soldiers had to be there at all. If I was there, I would maybe be dead by now, myself. I will say some prayers for the soldiers.

Also, I think their death benefits (to the families of fallen soldeirs) absolutely suck. I am all for raising taxes to give them more money for that. And I would love to see the Bush twins also be drafted, perhaps. Though on second thought, No.

I just don't think anyone needs (at this point) to be there - although "peace-keeping troops" are probably a good idea (that, hopefully, involves a much smaller number of soldiers than are currently there).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/6/2007 10:27:46 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 49

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 10:19:16 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

Rich:
How about we apologize,pay them reparations,send them Bush,Chenny,Rumsfeld and Connie in a cage and get the fuck out.
thompson

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 50

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 10:33:11 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Rich:
How about we apologize,pay them reparations,send them Bush,Chenny,Rumsfeld and Connie in a cage and get the fuck out.
thompson

Connie in a cage might be an enticement

. Careful with that plan though. Sinergy would want the reparations to come out of your personal checking account. (And I'd love to see the plan to distribute the money to our victims without it simply being seized by the 'crocodiles.')

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 51

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 10:44:39 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Rich:
How about we apologize,pay them reparations,send them Bush,Chenny,Rumsfeld and Connie in a cage and get the fuck out.
thompson

Connie in a cage might be an enticement . Careful with that plan though. Sinergy would want the reparations to come out of your personal checking account. (And I'd love to see the plan to distribute the money to our victims without it simply being seized by the 'crocodiles.')

Rich:
How about we carpet bomb them with a few hundred tons of Benjamins. Remember that a million dollars in Benjamins is 22 pounds.
Just my version of "trickle down".
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 9/6/2007 10:46:48 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 52

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 10:51:35 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Rich:
How about we apologize,pay them reparations,send them Bush,Chenny,Rumsfeld and Connie in a cage and get the fuck out.
thompson

(And I'd love to see the plan to distribute the money to our victims without it simply being seized by the 'crocodiles.')

Rich:
How about we carpet bomb them with a few hundred tons of Benjamins. Remember that a million dollars in Benjamins is 22 pounds.
Just my version of "trickle down".
thompson

LOL. G'night, Thompson.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 53

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 11:34:13 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I thought the war was an extreme reaction from the beginning (even if understandable, somewhat, due to Bush's maybe feeling he should "do something" as a response to 9/11).

Nope. It was a conscious and intentional fraud, committed by Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Powell, et. al.

Afghanistan was a reaction to 9/11. Iraq is nothing more than a War to Line Bushco Buddies Pockets with Looted Currency from the Treasury.

quote:

I don't want to go over there. No. I am not a "camper type". Where would I plug in my curling iron? Where are the good restaurants in Iraq? I am also a complete wuss when it comes to things like blood-shed. They probably wouldn't even have me in the Military. I'd be laughed out of my own platoon. It would be worse than that movie "Private Benjamin".

I am not trying to be snide, or make light of the war (I'm not). I am extremely grateful (truly I am) that other people are doing the fighting - otherwise, I might not have a choice. I owe those soldiers a LOT. A helluva lot. I realize that.

How so? Iraq was NEVER a treat to you. They're killing COMPLETE INNOCENTS in your name. Now if Iraq *had* been involved in 9/11, that might be a different case, but they weren't so it isn't.

And Mitt Romeny's COWARD CHILDREN, and Bush's COWARD CHILDREN don't bother to enlist... You know... "Other Priorities"...

I'll do it again.

I DENOUNCE AS A CRAVEN COWARD, ***ANYONE***:

1) Of eligible service criteria,
2) Who supports the War,
and
3) IS NOT IN UNIFORM.

Cowards, all of them.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 9/6/2007 11:36:00 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 54

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 11:36:48 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Sinergy would want the reparations to come out of your personal checking account.

He never supported the war.

It would come out of your account, TheHeretic.

Thank you for playing this round of Imperialism Bingo. Please play again.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 55

RE: The One Thing No One Says About Iraq - 9/6/2007 11:41:18 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Sinergy would want the reparations to come out of your personal checking account.

He never supported the war.

It would come out of your account, TheHeretic.

Thank you for playing this round of Imperialism Bingo. Please play again.

Sinergy

FWIW, I *could have* supported the transition of The Republic from a Constitutional Republic to a ***COMPETENT*** Empire.

Instead we got a Retarded Prince, and Incompetent Empire.

It's like we jumped right to the END of the Empire, and got all the sleaze and corruption.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 56

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