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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 11:42:45 AM

HizBabyGirl

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I agree with RoseBeauty. Its all a balancing act and to say that without question master's needs come before mine is not healthy or wise. If a couple has a good relationship they will have this understanding and it won't be a problem.

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 11:49:22 AM

charlotte12

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I agree with AquaticSub that these don't sound like issues that can be decided based on a D/s dynamic alone. The first one should have been discussed in advance but the others are things that are and should be difficult regardless of if the couple are Master and slave. They really sound like things that would have to be figured out when in the situation and no one is going to win anyway.

btw, quick hijack. aquatic, i love the new avatar but i have to admit that i will miss seeing your and Valyrean's smiling faces. I think i have a crush on you two as a couple.

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 11:49:30 AM

chellekitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

If I had to release myself I would not miss my mother's funeral. I wouldn't miss the funeral of either parents because the surviving parent will need their daughter there. I refuse to deny them that.

i understand that...but where i am coming from is that my father is an abusive asshole and if my mother passed away, i would be free of any ties to him and if he passed away i would bring my mother with me on vacation because she would be free of any ties from him...so...just my personal take on the subject...which i tried to take out of the original reply...i also kind of assumed that the mother would outlive the father and he was already dead...so...my bad?

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 11:54:48 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

so...my bad?

Nah. Just different viewpoints. I have good, if sometimes strained

, relationships with both of my parents. They've done much more than raise me and put food in front of me, they've actually been there for me - even when I didn't need them. There is no way I could possibly leave either of them to endure of the funeral and burial of their life partner without me.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 11:57:14 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: charlotte12

btw, quick hijack. aquatic, i love the new avatar but i have to admit that i will miss seeing your and Valyrean's smiling faces. I think i have a crush on you two as a couple.

Awww... *Blush* We are working on getting another picture up. However, it seems the house (or possibly trolls) ate the camera. But Valyraen says he will buy me one for Christmas if we haven't found it by then!

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 11:59:34 AM

chellekitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Awww... *Blush* We are working on getting another picture up. However, it seems the house (or possibly trolls) ate the camera. But Valyraen says he will buy me one for Christmas if we haven't found it by then!

do you have lawn gnomes? cause they like to eat electronics.........

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 12:00:06 PM

Bobkgin

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1. Whomever's need is more essential for sustaining life.
2. Whomever's need is more urgent.
3. Whomever's need is more important for good physical/mental health.

Note that desires and needs are very different things.

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That you never really lived?

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 12:02:32 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Awww... *Blush* We are working on getting another picture up. However, it seems the house (or possibly trolls) ate the camera. But Valyraen says he will buy me one for Christmas if we haven't found it by then!

do you have lawn gnomes? cause they like to eat electronics.........

No we don't. But I do have a statue of a penguin with a party hat who stands in our hallway. He's a bit taller than a lawn gnome. Perhaps he is to blame...

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 12:03:13 PM

SirDraco7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: charlotte12

I agree with AquaticSub that these don't sound like issues that can be decided based on a D/s dynamic alone. The first one should have been discussed in advance but the others are things that are and should be difficult regardless of if the couple are Master and slave. They really sound like things that would have to be figured out when in the situation and no one is going to win anyway.

btw, quick hijack. aquatic, i love the new avatar but i have to admit that i will miss seeing your and Valyrean's smiling faces. I think i have a crush on you two as a couple.

True, very true, but everyone is different.
It's the difference that I wanted to bring out.

I've met girls who put their Dom first no matter what, Doms who put their girl first no matter what(need wise) and other times where the guy was just a d*ck. "I don't care if you're bleeding to death on the floor, i'm horny now so spread them. Then we'll go to the Dr." As funny as this is.. the sad thing is I can see some guys like this.

So I was just curious if the D/s aspect of such questions would differ any from the vanilla aspects. ::smiles and shrugs:: In some ways, for some people.. yes. :)

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 12:06:59 PM

SirDraco7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

1. Whomever's need is more essential for sustaining life.
2. Whomever's need is more urgent.
3. Whomever's need is more important for good physical/mental health.

Note that desires and needs are very different things.

What in cases of equality? Or what about cases where it is hard to decide who's need is more important? Who makes the final call and decision as to which is more important.. the Dom?

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 12:14:29 PM

MzMia

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Wonderful topic SirDraco.
There are only so many new topics that can be created, so I enjoy topics
being re-visited that so many of us can relate to!

This topic is the primary reason I do not have a submissive.
When my needs are just to different than a potential submissive's needs, it
is hard for me to even want to enter into a relationship.

I am sure I have missed out on many wonderful submissive's because of this,
and this is something that I probably need to become more flexible about.
For me at this point in my life, there is going to have to be a meeting of the minds.
I don't see myself becoming seriously involved with someone who can not put
my needs first in the BEGINNING stages of a new relationship.
Once, trust is established I would think in life the situation of whose needs come first,
would fluctuate based on the situation.
I have come to realize that I need someone with more of a slave-heart than a submissive-heart.
That said, a lot of the time MY needs should be his needs.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 9/2/2007 12:27:34 PM >

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"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

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"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 12:19:21 PM

Bobkgin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraco7

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

1. Whomever's need is more essential for sustaining life.
2. Whomever's need is more urgent.
3. Whomever's need is more important for good physical/mental health.

Note that desires and needs are very different things.

What in cases of equality? Or what about cases where it is hard to decide who's need is more important? Who makes the final call and decision as to which is more important.. the Dom?

In that case, I as master decide her needs get met first.

In my relationships, I hold the power to make decisions, she does not. With that power comes the responsibility to care for her, for she's given up the power to care for herself trusting I will do it for her.

Thus if 1, 2, and 3 above are equally valid for both of us (we've both been thrown into the water and the boat is capsized, and only one of us can hold onto it while the other must swim, in a storm) I would decide she is the one to hold on and I am the one to swim.

Ever see "Titanic"?

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When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 12:46:55 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraco7

I'm pretty sure the needs vs wants topic has been discuessed before, but what about needs vs needs?

What happens when a subs needs and her Masters needs Differ?

If it's a need to survive rather than a need to thrive, then the most pressing need should come first and I think most people will acknowledge such. In cases of equality, His need will come first if that's what he dictates. If he decides my need should come first, then it will. It's still his decision.

quote:

My question is this... As a sub would you automatically put your Masters needs over your own? Should you? or should she?

Generally speaking, yes, I would do so automatically. I always serve his dinner before mine, get his drink before mine etc. etc. Until and unless I'm given differing instructions, that's the way it will continue.

quote:

As a Dom, would you ever put your subs needs over your own? After all you promised to protect and take care of her when you took her as your own did you not?

I don't recall Himself making that promise. He must have missed that class at Dom school.

Celeste

typo edit

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 9/2/2007 12:47:29 PM >

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 1:08:39 PM

TemptingNviceSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

As his slave it is not up to me to decide whose needs come first. He decides how and when my needs will be met. I do not have authority over that decision.

He makes his decisions based on the needs of the relationship. If in that moment it best serves the relationship to put my needs first, then that is what he will do. If it doesn't then, my needs will not come first. For all of us, the relationship comes first and that means that there are times that we will sacrifice what we want and need as individuals to ensure the health of the relationship.

Knight's Kyra

DARN YOU KYRA!!!...I had my answer all set!..My words of wisdom to come pouring forth, expecting all to acknowledge my growth and thought process..and what do you do!!!!!!..You steal my thunder!!.~stomps off to pout~..

...Tempting........

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 1:41:49 PM

MzMia

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Bob? I jump you jump.
Awfully nice to let your submissive ride on your back.
lol

< Message edited by MzMia -- 9/2/2007 1:42:14 PM >

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Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 1:55:24 PM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraco7

I'm pretty sure the needs vs wants topic has been discuessed before, but what about needs vs needs?

What happens when a subs needs and her Masters needs Differ?

With this I'm using Male Dom female sub just to give some point of reference without using sub/slave/swiths or his/her all the time. Feel free to apply this question and topic to whatever roles and genders.

Yes It also would depends on circumstances as well, sometimes the different needs might destroy the relationship. But not always. It also depends on what the needs are, as not everyone is the same. anyways....

My question is this... As a sub would you automatically put your Masters needs over your own? Should you? or should she?
No, I don't put his needs over my own automatically. If he needs something, he'll arrange for it to be taken care of. I don't tend to think about his needs; he does.

As a Dom, would you ever put your subs needs over your own? After all you promised to protect and take care of her when you took her as your own did you not?
I know that M puts my needs before his own on many an occasion. He does what he decides is best at any given time. He's far more giving and gracious than I could ever hope to be.

I'm just curious as to what everyone might say to such a question. Thank you in advance for your thoughts. :)

agirl

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 1:59:51 PM

arayofsunshine55

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I have yet to experience our "needs" colliding. Our desires can be different from time to time. And I don't automatically put his desires above my own. Cause in the end I do find someone way that his desires and mine work. So what I really desire is for him to be fully him. And therefore his desires can be mine. And no he didn't promise to protect and take care of me with owning me. He didn't it, I would not have wanted him to. I'm a big girl. Our relationship is not based on that foundation.

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Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 2:06:12 PM

Bobkgin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Bob? I jump you jump.
Awfully nice to let your submissive ride on your back.
lol

It has always been my ambition to be an inflatable life preserver

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 2:27:49 PM

CovetousTaboo

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I don't have a Master, but in my mind it would go like this,

Master would make the decisions on such things as both our needs. I would trust in his ability to do so, and focus on pleasing him. If he royally screwed it up, I guess I would need to re-evaluate how I think.

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RE: Master needs Vs subs Needs - 9/2/2007 2:29:32 PM

ownedgirlie

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Master decides what needs will be met and for whom. I trust his decisions and I follow and obey them, in all cases. Yes, I do put Master's needs above mine, unless he instructs me otherwise. In other words, I think of his needs first and foremost and that is what I aim for. If I am unsure, I ask. If I am off course, he redirects me.

There are times he has put my needs over his. There are times he puts my wants over his. There are times he puts my needs over his wants. It really depends on the situation and what he thinks is best.

As for your examples:

The first example about the 2nd girl would not work for us, since we do not live together and money is not an issue with him. I do know that he has always made it clear he is not monogamous, and for more than half of my relationship to him, I had emotional issues I needed to overcome about that, even though I accepted it from the start. He said he would shelter me from it so that I would not need to obsess about it. He said depending on how he felt I would handle it, he would either share his other relationships with me or not. His preference was to include me. But he set that aside until I could handle it.

As for the mother's death. Well my Master had priorities he needed to attend to when my father died. He did not need to be physically with me to "be there for me." We were on the phone constantly. We talked on webcam so I could see his face and hear his voice. I felt him. I felt his love. He was with me every step of the way. He set his desire for my service aside and instructed me to take care of my Dad when he was getting sicker and sicker. He put all my assignments on hold after Dad died until I was strong enough to do them again. He chose not to have me miss a critically important part of my life (my relationship with my Dad was beautiful). His desire to have an emotionally healthy and stable slave overwrote his desire to be tended to at that particular time.

He wants to have me move closer to him or even perhaps with him. But he felt it more important for me to be close to my parents - to help my Mom care for Dad when he was dying, and then to take care of my Mom afterward, until she got on her feet. It's only been a year and she's not quite there yet.

In my case, I don't get to decide how things get prioritized. In most cases, he comes first. But as you can see from my answers to your examples, in some cases he puts my needs first, which ultimately makes for a healthier slave and consequently a happier Master. So in that way, I guess he is still putting his desires/needs first, because ultimately he wants a healthy and stable slave who can give him her best.

But there is no "always." And yes, if I were bleeding on the floor and he said "spread 'em" I would spread 'em. Less than a week after surgery he wanted just that, and that is exactly what I did. And I was grateful for it, because I really needed him to!

And yes, in my case ALL of your questions would differ for me greatly if I were in a vanilla relationship. It would be night and day for me. I do not submit in a vanilla relationship.

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