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RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/22/2007 5:58:01 PM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
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i think to me no matter what side of the fence your on is ok as long as you adhere to what you say and not be flippy floppy. people that are fickle have no substance or foundation they just go with what every feels good at the moment. to me that is like being on shaky ground always always waiting for something tragic or negitive to strike ..

(in reply to Cuckme4Life)

Post #: 41

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/22/2007 6:06:50 PM

theq

Posts: 85
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty
If people saw the petitions I sign and what I protest, you might not ever point me out as being in M/s or bdsm. I have signed over 100 petitions in the last year ranging from everything from revoking Roe vs Wade to cloning to prosecuting those who engage in 'fake underage' with adults [aka age play in a sence] to more stringent domestic violence laws and tougher sentences and laws regarding drugs, DUI and drinking. It may not be copasetic with most around here, but it is with who I am.

I too have been described as conservative in my political views (though I consider myself a conservative moderate). Politics and my choice of lifestyle and bedroom behavior are somewhat isolated. But then again...much of my belief about BDSM relates to "old fashion" ways, perhaps it is related to my political view.

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)

Post #: 42

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/23/2007 2:04:09 AM

Wheldrake

Posts: 477
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

At their core though I think anyone who wants to control others personal consensual lives via the government (not BDSM) is motivated by fear. Arguably we might say that all government and laws come from fear either of what might happen or what has happened in the past.

I'm sure this is partly true. On the other hand, some people who are in favour of imposing puritanical laws seem to be motivated by a lack of empathy and imagination, rather than by fear - they can't understand why anyone would want to be tied up and whipped, to have anal sex, or whatever, so they simply dismiss those desires as perverse and immoral. The reasoning (such as it is) is apparently that anything that's wrong for them personally must be wrong for everyone, and that people who perversely refuse to acknowledge this need to be controlled by the law. It's more an instinctive moral judgement than a rational calculation of costs, benefits and consequences. I don't think this way, but I've encountered people who do, as far as I can determine.

To address the original question, I'm sure my BDSM inclinations make me more accepting of unusual or "deviant" private behaviour in general, whether it's kinky sex, drugs, prostitution or smoking. I'm extremely suspicious of the concept of a victimless crime. I suppose all this puts me well towards the "liberal" end of the spectrum on a lot of social issues, although not all of them.

Once in a while, I begin to suspect that BDSM is also having another, somewhat darker, influence on my political views. There are times when I catch myself thinking that prison should be a harsher place, that corporal punishment would be a good idea for some criminals, and even that a system of large-scale slavery might be a good way of rescuing society's losers (or the victims of heartless capitalism, if you prefer) from a life of endless poverty and unemployment. And then I have to wonder whether I'm reaching those conclusions objectively, or whether I'm simply being seduced by the fact that I find the idea of harsh prisons, corporal punishments and slave markets rather sexually exciting.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 43

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/23/2007 7:02:21 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuckme4Life

But i will say this about party politics. i would concern myself with the MORAL MAJORITY part of the Repubs to try cracking down on anything beyond vanilla behavior and sexual preferences. Does the Demos even have a equivalent to them?

Yes. The Reverend Jim Wallis and his group "Call to Renewal". This is the group that wanted the U. S. to accept responsibility for China's persecution of the Chinese Muslims. This is also the group that feels that the government has the right to come into private companies, determine the maximum amount of profit they can make and then anything over that amount will be taken by the government and used to bolster more "progressive" social programs.

(in reply to Cuckme4Life)

Post #: 44

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/23/2007 7:22:49 AM

paleseptember

Posts: 22
Joined: 8/17/2007
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Probably. Everything in my life influences my party politics.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 45

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/23/2007 7:27:56 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheldrake

Once in a while, I begin to suspect that BDSM is also having another, somewhat darker, influence on my political views. There are times when I catch myself thinking that prison should be a harsher place, that corporal punishment would be a good idea for some criminals, and even that a system of large-scale slavery might be a good way of rescuing society's losers (or the victims of heartless capitalism, if you prefer) from a life of endless poverty and unemployment. And then I have to wonder whether I'm reaching those conclusions objectively, or whether I'm simply being seduced by the fact that I find the idea of harsh prisons, corporal punishments and slave markets rather sexually exciting.

Interesting.

Part of my opinions about things today I think is more influenced by my training as an ancient historian. The things I've read about and the artifacts I've worked with helped me realize that all longing for 'the good old days' and 'gentle times' is just BS.

It also fuels my more extreme views of warfare and political conquest as well -- if there is going to be war why try to make it civilized or claim its for other people's freedoms?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Wheldrake)

Post #: 46

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/23/2007 11:41:40 AM

Wheldrake

Posts: 477
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Part of my opinions about things today I think is more influenced by my training as an ancient historian. The things I've read about and the artifacts I've worked with helped me realize that all longing for 'the good old days' and 'gentle times' is just BS.

It also fuels my more extreme views of warfare and political conquest as well -- if there is going to be war why try to make it civilized or claim its for other people's freedoms?

I also have a strong interest in history, although no formal training. Reading about the remote past, when the business of life was tougher and people weren't particularly squeamish about human suffering, has certainly made me a bit impatient with the delicate international humanitarianism that we have today. Nations sometimes have conflicting interests and allegiances that lead to military conflict, and warfare is inherently brutal. I wish the leaders of western democracies could simply acknowledge this, instead of trying to weave elaborate moral justifications around their geopolitical manoeuvres.

But I don't think the inherent brutality of war has to be unlimited. When you say that we shouldn't "try to make it civilized", I hope you don't mean that we should cheerfully bomb civilian populations and drop prisoners of war into vats of boiling acid. One has to at least attempt to draw a line somewhere, even if the line will necessarily get a bit blurry in practice (as with Dresden, Nagasaki and Hiroshima, for instance).

With that said, if I ever have the misfortune to be a prisoner of war, I hope there's a cold, dark cell, an impressive assortment of whips and truncheons, and a couple of cruel female interrogators. A boy can dream, can't he?

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 47

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/23/2007 12:00:14 PM

Hisbellaluna

Posts: 127
Joined: 8/13/2007
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if only the roots of humanitarianism were more like the roots of vegetarianism

_____________________________

Formerly known as chellekitty...

Do not be like servants who serve their masters expecting to receive a reward; be rather like servants who serve their master unconditionally, with no thought of reward. --Antigonus of Sokho

(in reply to Wheldrake)

Post #: 48

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/23/2007 12:00:57 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheldrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Part of my opinions about things today I think is more influenced by my training as an ancient historian. The things I've read about and the artifacts I've worked with helped me realize that all longing for 'the good old days' and 'gentle times' is just BS.

It also fuels my more extreme views of warfare and political conquest as well -- if there is going to be war why try to make it civilized or claim its for other people's freedoms?

But I don't think the inherent brutality of war has to be unlimited. When you say that we shouldn't "try to make it civilized", I hope you don't mean that we should cheerfully bomb civilian populations and drop prisoners of war into vats of boiling acid. One has to at least attempt to draw a line somewhere, even if the line will necessarily get a bit blurry in practice (as with Dresden, Nagasaki and Hiroshima, for instance).

Personally I think that warfare should always be the very last resort. Diplomacy can work very well if it purposely pursued and everyone realizations that games will be played -- better the political game than dead bodies in my opinion.

However, we (as a greater society) act so shocked by many of the things that happen in war when frankly why would we expect anyone to behave differently. For most people, killing others isn't an easy task (thank the Divine for that) and in order to get to that place where you can kill and survive yourself you will undergo changes on moral, ethical, and mental levels. The degree of change varies by person.

I'm not saying justify the cruelty or change the laws to make these acts legal but stop being so surprised when these acts happen and place the blame where it belongs -- the diplomats that failed in their jobs and the individual who did the acts in question.

The real radical militant in me is still waiting for those cheap slaves (non-consensual) and the cheap land for vets we should get when we conquer another nations. I would expect to be treated no differently should we be conquered given what I've seen in history. (how much of this paragraph am I serious about? something to think about)

I'm not interested in ideals of warfare because I think those all go flying out the window when the realities of being in combat hit you. I'm just not sure that all of the ethics training and warfare prep in the world can truly prepare someone for that. Warfare isn't civilized, killing isn't civilized, but are human beings civilized either or is that something we strive for?

Don't know how clear this is.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Wheldrake)

Post #: 49

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/23/2007 12:42:33 PM

ChainsandFreedom

Posts: 222
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

I'm not interested in ideals of warfare because I think those all go flying out the window when the realities of being in combat hit you. I'm just not sure that all of the ethics training and warfare prep in the world can truly prepare someone for that. Warfare isn't civilized, killing isn't civilized, but are human beings civilized either or is that something we strive for?

Just for the sake of argument, wouldn't rules of engagement and warfare mean warfare is at least a little civilized by definition?
How can you invoke the name of the devine, yet exonerate unrestrained killing and cruelty? what devine are you talking about there?
Theres a differance between differant kinds of 'being in combat'. The offiecer who can order in nukes/firebombs/gas has a different kind of combat stress than the soldier personally being shot at. The mostly desk-bound investigator who decides what kind of interrogation is appropriate has a differnt stress than the higher level person responsible in decinding the intellegance asset's value. The presidant who decides an internment camp is necessary has a differnt stress level than the genocidal facist.
Agreed, rules of warfare is often a smokescreen for killing. But come-on. How many northern POW's would the south or vietnam have simply exictued out of poverty if not for these rules? How much would the pentigon invest in smart bombs if they could just fire-bomb an entire metropolis instead?

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 50

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/23/2007 1:03:19 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fungasm

I've been reading about the hell that the folks at The Enclave (http://enclavewest.com/) have gone through. You can read about it here (http://www.westword.com/2007-06-07/news/kink-in-the-system/). It makes me wonder though, and very carefully think about my causes.

Civil Liberties have become very important to me.

I'm curious for others- does your kink influence your activism? Your politics?

Alison

My "kink" has definitely affected how I look at the world, and within that it has definitely affected my political views. Choosing to live an alternative lifestyle has sharpened my awareness of the cruelty of prejudice and bigotry--of the utter "unfairness" of labels and judgements based on those labels.

Because I wish the freedom to live my life free from the watchful eye of Big Brother, I became a card-carrying member of the ACLU. I do not agree with all of their positions, but I most emphatically agree with the importance of defending civil liberties and to oppose government's attempts to intrude into the private sphere of life.

My involvement with the lifestyle has served to underscore the sheer hypocrisy behind politicians' tired homilies about "family values", and to highlight the extent to which the vanilla world will relinquish personal sovereignty in the name of conformity.

Still, the "kink" has not so much changed my political or social beliefs so much as it has sharpened my awareness of issues arising from them. Things that were abstract before are definitely more real to me now.

_____________________________

(in reply to fungasm)

Post #: 51

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/23/2007 2:58:02 PM

AlexanderC

Posts: 34
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline

Absolutely it does. Actually there is a bizarre dialectic between my sexual and political inclinations that I feel is uniformly beneficial. Politically I identify as a libertarian socialist/anarchist. Inherently distrustful of institutionalized coercive powers (which I feel to be eminently tied to the destructive and oppressive captitalist economic system) I feel humans have been able to get along just fine without being told what to do and without feeling it incombent upon themselves to tell others their business. This kind of freedom is not inimical to social order and equality, but is rather an essential condition for its realization: I recognize and realize my own freedom only by interacting with other free beings. I could go on, but it would get boring. Anyway, since I don't really like the idea of laws I cannot endorse standard liberal notions of rights (which inherently involve the implicit threat of violence on the part of the state in order to secure them). But with out rights what's to stop someone who doesn't taken kindly to my admittedly somewhat transgressive (at least by current sexual mores) practices from beating the shit out of me? I guess I'm trying to say that BDSM is one of my few characteristics that would qualify as 'minority', except maybe wearing glasses, listening to jazz, and loving books and free discussion in America today. BDSM makes me extremely cautious about majoritarian politics and especially the potential of my own ideals to lead me down that path. I'd like to think it also makes me more tolerant of other peoples' differences.
On the sex side of things, and this is just as interesting for me if a thousand times more twisted, I actually think I get off on doing things that fly completely in the face of just about everything I believe. I like to tie up members of the fairer sex in a multitude of positions ranging all across the spectrum of discomfort and humiliting exposure. The sight of a young woman, her labia spread widely by an aesthetically pleasing rope harness, bending forward on her kness to offer up her expectant ass to a cane, a paddle, a flogger, my hand, etc. sends me into a sort of trance. Not that I would ever claim, except if I were toying with someone in a scene, that this hierarchy is somehow natural, but I've had guilt issues with it for years feeling my impulses stem from patriarchy or something along those lines. But that's only when I stop to think about it. When I'm actually doing it slight feelings of guilt crop up, but are overrun by the shear intimacy of the activity. I don't know if it's ironic or not, but the fact that I subconsciously go through this process of spontaneous self-critique while I'm playing pushes my experience beyond the 'merely' sexual into something I can't really describe, something total, almost metaphysical. This probably makes no sense to anyone.

(in reply to fungasm)

Post #: 52

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/23/2007 6:49:23 PM

DarkDaddyZ

Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
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Yes it does, or it did in the 90s not as much now. Even though I'm a Dem...we seem to be going more right of center than left. Atlanta was kink central in the 90s... now even it's right of center....the Bay Area is still safe but still I believe us kinksters need to pay attention to the belief system of the politicians out there. At least in 1998, Lloyd "Russ" Russell ran for Lt Governor of Georgia and is a Leather Daddy. I love him to death and we have strong sexual and kink community views BUT I'm not a Libertarian so we didn't share enough political views.

_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

(in reply to AlexanderC)

Post #: 53

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/24/2007 3:17:13 AM

Wheldrake

Posts: 477
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Personally I think that warfare should always be the very last resort. Diplomacy can work very well if it purposely pursued and everyone realizations that games will be played -- better the political game than dead bodies in my opinion.

However, we (as a greater society) act so shocked by many of the things that happen in war when frankly why would we expect anyone to behave differently. For most people, killing others isn't an easy task (thank the Divine for that) and in order to get to that place where you can kill and survive yourself you will undergo changes on moral, ethical, and mental levels. The degree of change varies by person.

With due respect, I think you're exaggerating a bit, at least with the "why would we expect anyone to behave differently" part. Human beings are capable of amazing savagery, but they're also capable of amazing forbearance and restraint. There's also a practical issue - large-scale rapine and slaughter may be a terrible strategy if it only galvanises the enemy into seeking an equally vicious revenge. ChainsandFreedom has a point about a lot of killing in warfare being done remotely, too, without the emotional pressures of close-up combat.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

The real radical militant in me is still waiting for those cheap slaves (non-consensual) and the cheap land for vets we should get when we conquer another nations. I would expect to be treated no differently should we be conquered given what I've seen in history. (how much of this paragraph am I serious about? something to think about)

Wow. I'm curious - are there any particular countries the radical militant in you would target? (As a Canadian, I've got my eye on Greenland, and maybe Alaska.) Would you send out the legions to grab resources and territory, or would you deploy them only in self-defence, however pre-emptive? And would you treat those cheap non-consensual slaves with some degree of human decency, or would you just say "woe to the vanquished" and cut loose? There's an element of self-interest here - our countries share a border, and I need to know what I might be in for!

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 54

RE: Does your kink influence your activism/politics? - 8/24/2007 3:27:33 AM

Wheldrake

Posts: 477
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexanderC
I like to tie up members of the fairer sex in a multitude of positions ranging all across the spectrum of discomfort and humiliting exposure. The sight of a young woman, her labia spread widely by an aesthetically pleasing rope harness, bending forward on her kness to offer up her expectant ass to a cane, a paddle, a flogger, my hand, etc. sends me into a sort of trance. Not that I would ever claim, except if I were toying with someone in a scene, that this hierarchy is somehow natural, but I've had guilt issues with it for years feeling my impulses stem from patriarchy or something along those lines. But that's only when I stop to think about it. When I'm actually doing it slight feelings of guilt crop up, but are overrun by the shear intimacy of the activity. I don't know if it's ironic or not, but the fact that I subconsciously go through this process of spontaneous self-critique while I'm playing pushes my experience beyond the 'merely' sexual into something I can't really describe, something total, almost metaphysical. This probably makes no sense to anyone.

So you get off metaphysically on the moral conflicts that occur while you're getting off sadistically? That's a truly astonishing kink. I don't want to spoil it for you, so I'd better not comment further in case I accidentally say something that might allay your sense of guilt.

(in reply to AlexanderC)

Post #: 55

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