RE: Dearly Departed

RE: Dearly Departed (Full Version)

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feastie -> RE: Dearly Departed (8/20/2007 10:00:21 AM)
There are certain things that even a slave must do alone. Choosing a new master to serve or not, for that matter, is one of those things. His heart is in the right place, but this is simply something he cannot do for her. Yes, there are many of you that will come back with the fact that she's a slave, she's his property and he can damn well do as he sees fit. That's certainly true, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do or the best thing to do.

Celeste43 -> RE: Dearly Departed (8/20/2007 2:05:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaamJay I don't agree entirely with your earlier post Celeste that what she needs is a grief therapist, accountant etc etc. Unless it's a particularly kink-friendly grief therapist they may not have the understanding of the particular depths and dynamics of a Master/slave relationship compared to a vanilla one. I think a trusted bdsm friend who already knows her and her Master and has observed their dynamic is likely to be better able to share with her and also to notice when she is showing signs of recovery. Besides, I don't really subscribe to the apparently American way of running off to a professional therapist for everything! That's what friends are for ... unless it something seriously pathological. Still, a harrowing situation and I can only hope that those involved find the appropriate way to get through it. Maam Jay aka violet[A] She may not need a grief therapist but if she does, it would be a lot better if she already had the phone number of one and had met him/her. Assuming he's getting help from Hospice then she could meet one there. And I disagree that M/s grief is more special than a vanilla mourning the loss of their partner of 20 years. The grief process is much the same. However if the therapist needs to be BDSM friendly, then now is the time for him to find one and explain their relationship and see how the therapist responds. And if you don't think that a good estate lawyer and accountant are necessary, then you've never been executor of an estate. I was for my mother and I cannot imagine handling the estate while being immersed in my own loss without the help of trusted professionals who I could trust to handle probate, tax issues, dealing with the bank to get the box unlocked etc. Doing it while someone else is telling you what to do is tiring and exhausting, doing it all when you don't know what you're doing would be a horrorshow. Add to this the fact that he could plan his funeral. When my mother in law died we found a folder in her desk outlining the funeral service, down to where the family plot was and which hymns she wanted sung. It was an enormous help to not have to think about such details at that time but to know that the minister, funeral director etc all knew her wishes and were ready to respect them.

adoracat -> RE: Dearly Departed (8/20/2007 3:42:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: paleseptember To LotusSong and adoracat: You both are stronger that I could ever hope to be. Bless your hearts for that. I wouldn't have traded places with you for the world. But perserverance is to be admired, and hopefully everyone will be the stronger for it. ~+offers hugs and leaves on that note+~ thank you...its not being strong in my case.... this is what i have been dealt, so its what i'm persevering through. Sir knows i have health issues that will probably make things difficult for us in the coming years....and he took me as his anyway. that makes my existance brighter right there. hugs back kitten, who knows she's blessed

MaamJay -> RE: Dearly Departed (8/20/2007 6:46:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 And if you don't think that a good estate lawyer and accountant are necessary, then you've never been executor of an estate. I was for my mother and I cannot imagine handling the estate while being immersed in my own loss without the help of trusted professionals who I could trust to handle probate, tax issues, dealing with the bank to get the box unlocked etc. Doing it while someone else is telling you what to do is tiring and exhausting, doing it all when you don't know what you're doing would be a horrorshow. Add to this the fact that he could plan his funeral. When my mother in law died we found a folder in her desk outlining the funeral service, down to where the family plot was and which hymns she wanted sung. It was an enormous help to not have to think about such details at that time but to know that the minister, funeral director etc all knew her wishes and were ready to respect them. Ah, I don't think you mentioned an estate lawyer, yes I agree on that. I got the possibly mistaken impression that you meant the accountant was for handling ordinary daily finances ... and that would only be necessary if her Master had kept her unaware of any of that. But in terms of the extraordinary task of winding up his affairs, then yes, professional help would be useful. I am to be My Mother's executor, so I guess I'll find out all about it then. And I totally agree about planning his funeral ... several relatives I've known have done that and it is an immense comfort to the surviving. So perhaps we weren't as far apart on this one as we thought! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Dearly Departed (8/20/2007 8:14:33 PM)
To the OP..many wonderful suggestions and advice..So I have not much to offer except the fact that when someone is faced with death, they tend to want to get their affairs in order and this is simply him doing just that..We all want to know that our loved ones are in good hands and that all will be well..plus he may be doing this as a way to avoid thinking of his own demise. And not knowing the submissive in question,all we can surmise is that with the Masters knowledge of her has lead him to believe that she needs someone to lean on later, or somehow not lose that feeling of belonging..But whatever the case..maybe the Master does know best...Tempting..

spankmepink11 -> RE: Dearly Departed (8/20/2007 8:55:00 PM)
Thats a very sad situation , and i feel for them both, but what on earth makes people think that someone needs "looking after" when they lose a significant other to death? Does this not perpetuate the myth that being submissive is the equivalent to being fragile..helpless and unable to care for oneself?

nyrisa -> RE: Dearly Departed (8/21/2007 2:36:24 AM)
Plenty of great advice given, and I hope it helps the couple in dealing with his final days. I'd have to agree with a previous poster that sending the girl online to search for a replacement, or the Master doing so himself, is a terribly risky idea. Look at the ups and downs we have all faced in seeking a partner through online. She is not going to have the emotional stability and reserves needed to go through the weeding through of the wheat from the chaff in the replies she will get. Dealing with the trolls and pretenders will be much more difficult in this frame of mind, and also the disappointments when likely prospects wash out for one reason or another. Add to this, that a predatory person could target her because of the situation, and the possible attraction of getting access to any inheritance she might end up with, and big red flags go up in my mind. She'd be far better off to make contact with the local BDSM community, and seek stable friends as a support system, and possibly to serve as a safety net in case she does meet someone as a possible new Master, down the road. It is easier for a person to mislead a grieving sub, than it is to maintain a false facade when her friends get to know him, too. Her Master would do much better to use their remaining time to get his personal affairs in order, and to build many more loving memories with her that will help see her through the dark days to come.

MadameMarque -> RE: Dearly Departed (8/21/2007 4:05:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 quote: ORIGINAL: MadameMarque In such a situation, I would hope, and urge, that the submissive be transitioned to a reliable household, who are trusted and known by the owner or dominant, not to be owned by them, but as a haven, for her. Whether they are actually in the scene, or just scene-friendly, it is more important that the submissive be supported by good people, until fate and opportunity send her to the right person for her, at the right time, in the future. One could look upon this as a guardianship situation. All blessings to all those involved. Is she mentally incompetent that she needs a legal guardian? And do you really think the best thing for her is to lose not only her husband but also her own home? Would you give this advice to your mother should your father predecease her? You really believe people suffering from one loss will do best by having everything of their own removed from them by force? The fact that she's been able to nurse him to the end while handling all the household chores shows that she isn't incapable of making decisions. Um, no. I can only gather that your misinterpretation of my remarks is based around my use of the word, "guardianship." I did not mean "legal guardian," for someone incapacitated. I certainly did not intend to suggest that anything be removed from anybody, or that she lose her home, or that she is incapacitated...none of this has anything to do with my remarks, and again, I can only guess that you extrapolated from the word, "guardianship," to all these wrong conclusions. I only used the word to indicate that her staying among friends would be like a haven, and that, as her master seems to want her to be under someone's auspices, in his absence, he could view this as someone(s) "guarding over her," instead of her going directly to another master. Also, since he seems to want her to go directly into being owned, in another household, he may believe - and it may or may not be true - that she will suffer from not being in that dynamic with anyone, on top of other grief and trauma. As an alternative, that still seems in keeping with both his will and her will to honor his will, I'm suggesting, instead of her going, permanently, to a new master - in which case, all of her property really would be at risk, especially if the new master turned out to be a bad choice - I'm suggesting that, instead, she be among friends, for however long she needs the support. I'm suggesting that she stay with people that they already know (instead of looking among strangers), because they are more likely to be a good choice. For her to stay in another household, would not involve her giving up any of her possessions or household. But for her to stay among people, in their household, for however long she needs the support, especially people who understand the kind of relationship she has had, would hopefully fulfill a bit of that need to be under someone else's wing - if, indeed, she has that need - without going directly into being owned or dominated by another. This may or may not be a useful suggestion, to these two people. In all this, I am only speculating, based upon a few paragraphs of information. I only responded because it hurt me to think of the two of them, in the situation as it was described, and I was trying to suggest another approach, toward the same goal, of his taking the best care of her and her honoring his wishes, while still living true to her needs and feelings. And finally, your remarks about my family are not invited, informed, or appreciated. So, back off.

MadameMarque -> RE: Dearly Departed (8/21/2007 5:30:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spankmepink11 Thats a very sad situation , and i feel for them both, but what on earth makes people think that someone needs "looking after" when they lose a significant other to death? Does this not perpetuate the myth that being submissive is the equivalent to being fragile..helpless and unable to care for oneself? Being submissive is not equivalent to being weak; that is certain. People who, for whatever reason, are drawn to be submissive to another, are not lesser people, and though we may agree to behave "as if" they are, within a dominant/submissive relationship, they are not, in fact, less wise, capable, intelligent, strong, perceptive, etc, etc, - than those who are dominant, simply by dint of their being submissive. (Actually, anyone can see that the devoted, self-sacrificing submissives are the angels, whereas the cruel, demanding dominants can only be the bad guys!) Speaking for my remarks in this thread, I was responding to a specific situation as it was presented - if the woman, hopefully adult and of her own free will, chooses to be in an owner/slave or master/submissive relationship, and if her master is trying to place her with another master, directly upon his absence, and if she is choosing to honor his wishes, but her heart is not in it - if all this is true, then I was trying to suggest another avenue that might fulfill their aims, in which she receives support, but isn't immediately thrown into another owner/slave situation, with someone they don't even know. Who, among us, is impervious to loss of a loved one? And who couldn't benefit from caring people supporting them, at that time? That is one kind of "looking after," and it's pretty common for people to feel that someone in grief could use looking after. But regarding making arrangements for a submissive or slave, as if they can't or shouldn't do it, themselves, or continuing to act as if they are property, after the death of a loved one - It is true that some people in more extreme dominant/submissive or owner/slave relationships are particularly hard hit by the trauma of their identity and personal world being changed, if they lose their dominant or owner, and by the loss of that authority figure, and whatever that role means to them, personally. This particular loss, I think, has its own issues. How best to deal with those issues? Are they symptomatic of an unhealthy relationship? These questions are not easy. One certain thing is that that person is still a free, self-determining adult. Even being a consentual submissive or slave requires a continuous choice, a continuous exerting of the submissive's will, to determine their own life.

spankmepink11 -> RE: Dearly Departed (8/21/2007 6:44:22 AM)
G'morning Madame, You are correct, we all need a support system when we lose a love one. For me, i suppose, it's just hard to wrap my head around the fact that this would include finding another master for a slave prior to the current masters demise. Thats like a dying partner in a married couple trying to find the remaining partner a new spouse prior to death. Madame, the last paragraph of your post, which I've quoted below, to me, addresses the core of this issue. "But regarding making arrangements for a submissive or slave, as if they can't or shouldn't do it, themselves, or continuing to act as if they are property, after the death of a loved one - It is true that some people in more extreme dominant/submissive or owner/slave relationships are particularly hard hit by the trauma of their identity and personal world being changed, if they lose their dominant or owner, and by the loss of that authority figure, and whatever that role means to them, personally. This particular loss, I think, has its own issues. How best to deal with those issues? Are they symptomatic of an unhealthy relationship? These questions are not easy. One certain thing is that that person is still a free, self-determining adult. Even being a consensual submissive or slave requires a continuous choice, a continuous exerting of the submissive's will, to determine their own life. " In all aspects of life we experience traumas that are life altering regardless of our orientation, and to be honest i don't feel that D/s or M/s partners feel it more acutely than anyone else.

SlaveSuru -> RE: Dearly Departed (8/21/2007 9:27:03 AM)
I have had a situation knd of like this. My first Mistress was killed in a car crash and I was so lost I just clung to the guy had been casually dating at the time (( My mistress had me date whle she had me in training to see if this was what I really wanted)). I wish we had some sort of plan because I was stuck for a year in a relationship that was not what I needed. Then I met my Master and we were happy but I still had some loyalty issues with my former Mistress because I didn't feel I was " released from her yet. We went to a friend of ours who does therapy sessions for BDSM people, and he really helped me let go of all the misplaced guilt I had. My Master now says that should anything happen to him He wants me to find someone after Him instead of living bound to His Memory.

atendersoul -> RE: Dearly Departed (8/21/2007 10:15:10 AM)
interesting choice of words that T/they are married and "SUPRISINGLY" happy.......have seen many long term relationships of this LifeStyle that were of this way quoted and beyond..... one would have to believe that within being this one's Master, His duty would be ensure his property's well being, safety and security and with finding placement in a new house He has done as much as His situation would allow.... Death is a very final thing in all cases of Life. If distance would allow and there was an understanding from the new Owner, she would be allowed to care for Him in His final days. In one case that is known to this one, the New Master had the ill One move in to ease the distance and allow all enclosure. Would there be great joy in the end of One and the beginning with the New......time heals and this is needed before moving on at times. this one lost Him after 31 years under His House...never married. His death was quick and without warning. There was no time to prepare for this and it was many months before the shock wore off to realize all His passing would mean to the House and all of us within it. and seven years before this one would offer her self for ownership again.....

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