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Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 12:41:18 AM   
MasterNdorei


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i have noticed over the years that there are three basic personality-dynamics (for lack of a better term) found in the lifestyle. #1. The person who is dominant/submissive by nature expressing their dominante/submissive nature to it's fullest within the lifestyle. (ie those with a submissive nature who are subs or slave and those who are domiant by nature who are Doms or Masters) #2. The person who is dominant/submisive by nature expressing the opposite of their nature within the lifestyle. (ie someone who is not dominant in any other area of life being dominant in their BDSM dynamic, or who is naturally dominant in their everyday life being submissive to another in their BDSM dynamic.) #3. The person who is is both dominant and submissive by nature, could/does identify as a switch, and has their role determined by being the opposite of their partner's dominance/submission. (ie someone who is submissive because their partner is dominant, or vice versa)  i am not looking for exceptions to the examples given, but IF you can relate to this theory, i would be interested in knowing which category best describes you and your role in your BDSM relationship. i would also like to discuss what you see as stregnths and weaknesses of each, or any that have applied to you. Master's dorei

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 1:04:57 AM   
straykitten


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I'm definitely number 2...outside of the lifestyle I'm very alpha-female.  If I were to come out to my friends, they probably could deal with my involvement in D/s...but would probably refuse to believe I'm a submissive :P

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 1:37:51 AM   
Stephann


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Hi M+d,

I've also noticed that people have a hard time assigning more than three types to any group as a whole.  I don't think this has anything to do with actual differences in personalities, as it is a desire to simplify a cognitive question.  American politics depends heavily on the 'good/bad' answer; hence two parties.  Restaurants prefer to offer three sizes; medium, large, and jumbo (intentionally excluding small because we subconsciously believe it to be a waste of money.)  Numbers larger than three are really symbols that represent groups of twos and threes; 4 being two groups of 2, 7 being two groups of 2 and a 3, 37 being many groups of 3 and a 2.

I believe we all have a dominant trait, and a submissive trait; no different than everyone can draw with their right hand, and they can draw with their left hand.  We're all born with a natural skill to draw a little better with one of those hands.  With careful practice, we can increase our skill with either hand, if we wish;  the question is why do  we focus on that hand?  My father is left handed, but grew up in a time when they didn't make 'lefty' scissors.  He learned to write with his write hand, because it was expected of him.  His personal desire to use his left hand was not encouraged.  I think this is a more accurate model of how dominance and submission are taught.

Another example is in the military.  Natural leaders often aggressively obey orders in an effort to achieve results quickest and most efficiently.  They actively learn a trait that may be in contrast to their nature, in order to satisfy that nature.  It doesn't mean they forget to be leaders (or dominant.)  Natural submissives, too, follow orders well.  The trouble can start when those submissives are promoted to positions of leadership, based on their ability to follow orders; not based on their capacity to give them (dominance.)  This is where adaptation becomes vital.

Everyone is submissive sometimes.  When I stand in line and pay for food at the supermarket, I'm submitting to social mores and rules that require I do so.  I'm obeying both law and custom (there is no 'law' that says we must stand in line, you know.)  Anyone who has children, knows that no matter how submissive one is, they must still assert authority.  When we use the term 'dominant' and 'submissive' as nouns to refer to people, I believe it is a statement of their relationship preference; a dominant is someone who enjoys being in control in a situation.  A submissive is a person who enjoys being submissive in a relationship.  Their actual aptitude or skill in these capacities has absolutely nothing to do with their inherent desires; excepting only that someone who does not draw will, usually doesn't go on to become a freelance painter. 

Take care,

Stephan


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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 3:52:13 AM   
ExSteelAgain


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Yes, Stephann, said it well in a detailed, erudite way. Briefly speaking dominance or submissiveness in relationships is complex. It may have little to do with “natural” anything. Often it is an opposite facet driving force.

Submissive women seem to be much more ready to admit they are the opposite outside of a D/s relationship, but dominant men love to shout they are dominant in all things under the sun. I mean there are Dom waiters (no pun intended), Dom clerks and Dom assembly line workers. If they want to believe they are Doming everyone around then, well they have a rich fantasy life.  

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 4:45:09 AM   
bandit25


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Hysterical, but correct.

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 6:05:18 AM   
Cyntilating


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dorei,
 
I am not sure.  I get confused when I try to fit myself into a category...When I read those 3 choices, in some ways they all apply to me (for differing reasons)...
 
I am by nature and would claim my genuine self a submissive, from childhood on, with many examples I could relate that affirm that to be true.
 
I can also say that I have lived my adult life in the role of a dominant in a marriage ( prior to my submission to Master ) in my job, in my friendships, and certainly as a parent.
BUT, with the exception of my work/job (which is definately more about my natural personality to be incharge and take charge in a WORK environment), I would say those other relationships and my "dominant" role was more about circumstance than it was being my genuine self.  I HAD to step up, Had to __________________ ( fill in the blank) because if "I" didnt do it, no one else would.  If given a choice and in the relationship dynamic that allowed and embraced and nurtured my submissive nature > I almost certainly would have not been the one making the decision,leading,in control of the relationship, etc.
 
In friendships, however, I find it even more difficult to categorize my submissive nature/tendancy/personality.
Reflecting> I identify with the type of person who had "a few very special and close friendships that have lasted forever" vs " many many casual friends/acquaintances" type friendship dynamics..
  Most of the "very special friendships" seemed to come in sets of 3 ... at age 5 to 13 I had 2 "best friends" > and of the 3 of us there was a leader, there was a very passive quiet person and then there was me in the middle of the two others in personality.
age 15 to 25  another set of 3 with the same dynamics >and I fell somewhere in the middle as far as strong outgoing,leader personality or passively quiet and  follower>  i was neither of those but somewhere in the middle..
 
Now as an adult,>> who has come into herself, through my submission and service in this lifestyle & to a Master, and having a better understanding and knowledge of  genuine self and my own desires,>> my friendships with other women find me in a dominant role naturally.  Especially around submissive females.  I find myself the aggressor, leading, nurturer and nuturing role automatically and it feels "right" ...not out of circumstance or lack of choice < I mean.
Some have suggested I am a switch...it boggles my mind when I try to think about it too much...so I dont LOL  I just feel and experience and try not to try to categorize...
so then that might put me in your category #3.....shrug...dont know..
 
I know I haven't actually answered your question and picked a category LOL...but I thought I would share these feelings and thoughts.
 

 

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 6:39:54 AM   
beargonewild


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From reading this, in a general way and without getting very specific, your examples are fairly accurate, at least in my view. For myself I would have to say that #3 better describes myself. I'm overall submissive but can become somewhat dominant if need be.

Overall, I an comfortable with the role I take on in my BDSM relationships. It is a role which I am very comfortable with and am accustomed to living. My basic nature is mutable and at times fluidic in nature. Even when I engage in a vanilla relationship I find I automatically assume the role of molding my wants, needs and desires to be fairly compatible to my partner's wants needs and desires. Though still keeping in mind that my strong dislikes aren't compromised either.
   The one primary disadvantage to this is this trait is often misinterpretted as being passive and weak and in turn, I have lost sight of how to express my wants needs and desires when asked. This is very apparent in the beginning of a relationship and it frustrates myself and possibily frustrates my partner until they know me more intimately.
 

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 6:42:12 AM   
velvetears


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i don't fit into any of your categories.  Therefore there has to be more possibilities out there.  i think being dominant or submissive outside of a D/s relationship fluctuates with each person, as the situation calls for.  i also think someone can be submissive or dominant in their dealings with others and still enjoy being dominant or submissive in a D/s relationship and they don't necessarily have to be that "by nature" - it's simply something they need or like, something that satisfies them.

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 6:48:23 AM   
e01n


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Yeah, there's definitely a fourth possibility: the flexible person who doesn't even bother to identify with the D/s axis at all unless forced to by a restricted Aristotlean binary... which is a given since you're giving 2 axes...

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 7:02:36 AM   
apiercedkitty


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i feel like i fall into the second category. i am definitely a control freak in "life" but absolutely love giving that control up in private. i'm one of the ones who's so much in control of my own life that my nilla friends can't believe that i call myself a "sub." i have a long, drawn-out theory about why i am who i am - but it's way too boring. The part i have trouble with is letting my submission out of the bedroom... i have a hard time feeling "ok" with letting Him do things for me - or because He thinks it's best - outside of the bedroom... which is the part of my submission that is still under the most construction.
 

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 7:12:51 AM   
Wildfleurs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterNdorei

i have noticed over the years that there are three basic personality-dynamics (for lack of a better term) found in the lifestyle. #1. The person who is dominant/submissive by nature expressing their dominante/submissive nature to it's fullest within the lifestyle. (ie those with a submissive nature who are subs or slave and those who are domiant by nature who are Doms or Masters) #2. The person who is dominant/submisive by nature expressing the opposite of their nature within the lifestyle. (ie someone who is not dominant in any other area of life being dominant in their BDSM dynamic, or who is naturally dominant in their everyday life being submissive to another in their BDSM dynamic.) #3. The person who is is both dominant and submissive by nature, could/does identify as a switch, and has their role determined by being the opposite of their partner's dominance/submission. (ie someone who is submissive because their partner is dominant, or vice versa)  i am not looking for exceptions to the examples given, but IF you can relate to this theory, i would be interested in knowing which category best describes you and your role in your BDSM relationship. i would also like to discuss what you see as stregnths and weaknesses of each, or any that have applied to you. Master's dorei


Honestly none of those really apply to me.  I'm a control freak that is mildly assertive, but I believe that I could (and should) be more agressive.  But I definitely don't have a submissive personality, nor would I say that I'm quite a dominant personality.  What feels right and true to myself is submitting in my personal relationships.

The main weakness, which I think is obvious, is that its immensely short-sighted and simplistic to view peoples personalities in the structure of dominant, submissive, other.  There are so many nuances and while there may be ways that people default in terms of their ways of relating to others, there's frequently a disconnect between how they percieve themselves and how others percieve them. 

C~


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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 7:30:18 AM   
CreativeDominant


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While I think your three categories are a nice starting point, to me that is all they are is a starting point.

As pointed out by ExSteel and others, there are times when dominant men proclaim themselves to be dominant all the time and yet, close observation of their dealings with others begins to show nuances in their "dominance". 

I may run the programs that I put my clients into but it is only with their cooperation and input.  If one of them disagrees and states that they intend to do something other than my vision of the program, then I either negotiate or give in to their view as long as I do not feel it would compromise already-agreed upon goals or endanger their recovery.  Part of that is a business decision and part of that is the realization that these people have no need nor desire nor want to yield their choices completely over to me.

Look at how we all deal with our families.  There are members of my family who are every bit as "alpha" as I am in certain situations.  The same was true during my time in the military.  I made sergeant in two years...I didn't do it by kissing ass but I didn't do it by doing things all my own way either.  I learned early on that following orders to the best of my ability (submission of a sort) led me more quickly to a position of leadership in which I gave orders (dominance of a sort) and still took orders (submission again). 

I am happy knowing that my most natural inclination is to be dominant and yet, can modulate that to suit the situation.

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 7:45:22 AM   
LATEXBABY64


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ummm what

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 7:49:04 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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I guess they kinda work in general, but for all intents and purposes they are as useful and as useless as the "9 levels of submission" essay.

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 7:49:59 AM   
arayofsunshine55


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I don't know that I am anything "by nature".  For me this is all about what gloats my boat.  What I enjoy.  And nature has very little to do with it.  My personality has very little to do with it.

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Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 7:56:00 AM   
Jolielaide


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Thought provoking, isn't it? Even though with over 50+ years of life, I *know* that almost any human characteristic is actually more likely to be some sort of "Bell curve" affair, it seems to be very human to sort things into discreet little piles. For those with a traditional religious bent, I'm sure you'll remember that the first job G-d gave Adam was to name all the animals!

I would, with much sadness, like to suggest yet another (admittedly arbitrary) category: those who are trying to work out past grievances and hurts. Some are trying to make whatever the trauma was "come out right this time", some seem to be trying to use BDSM as some odd sort of immersion/shock therapy and so on and so on.

As usual, I digress. I seem to be dominant... period. Not domineering, which in some circles gets me a lot of teasing. I've actually had a partner in a fit of pique call me a Mominatrix... shortly before he learned how very unhappy his "Momme" was with his disrespect and smart mouth.

I attribute my drive to dominance a bit to basic nature. The mere thought of me submitting in a BDSM and/or sexual sense makes my skin almost literally crawl. Conversely, I almost WISH I could do that, as I think it would make me a stronger, more balanced, wise and complete person to be able to experience both. I think more of it my need to be in control is actually enculturation.

Weird, for someone born in the time and place I was, isn't it? I predate most of the social revolutions that make this forum possible. For four generations that I can remember, the women in my family were tough, strong, take charge women within the confines of the roles they were culturally allowed to possess. My great-grandmother, born in 1867, actually told me once "Daughter, there is no point in getting angry with a man, because most men are just *pitiful*. But the only thing more pitiful than that is a woman who can't cope". This was a woman who raised fourteen children to adulthood (she never lost even ONE) and outlived three husbands, in the days before both antibiotics and anesthetics.

Add to that being the oldest nine children, and I'm afraid the pattern was set for life just about the time I decided to walk. LOL

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 8:03:52 AM   
violetaelf


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I'm sure there are people who don't fit any category but after doing some self-studying when I was learning about the lifestyle I have to say that I now believe in a duality of men/women (not all but most) . I think that people have both sides, submissive and dominant and either express both in the lifestyle (a.k.a. switch) or choose one they feel more comfortable with.

For myself.. in my vanilla life I am very strong and in control of myself. That doesn't mean that if I work for someone that I feel I'm dominating them... but I thrive to rise in 'rank' and in group projects end up being the lead. It's no wonder I chose the career such as -film-director-. I feel very comfortable with being in control of a set, crew and actors... I'm the boss...

But when I come home, I feel just as comfortable kneeling at my Sir's feet (can't wait to live with him in 2 months so that can be an everyday thing).
Being submissive in a way completes me, like yin-yang... it creates a very comfortable balance for me internally. And I'm pretty sure this is not a rarity. There are plenty strong women who love to submit.... to me, personally. Being dominant all the time was burdensome for me.. and I'm glad that I found this lifestyle and found someone to share it with to tip my internal scale to a good equal position.

Just a bit of rant.. :)

'violet'

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 8:17:45 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jolielaide

Thought provoking, isn't it? Even though with over 50+ years of life, I *know* that almost any human characteristic is actually more likely to be some sort of "Bell curve" affair, it seems to be very human to sort things into discreet little piles. For those with a traditional religious bent, I'm sure you'll remember that the first job G-d gave Adam was to name all the animals!

I would, with much sadness, like to suggest yet another (admittedly arbitrary) category: those who are trying to work out past grievances and hurts. Some are trying to make whatever the trauma was "come out right this time", some seem to be trying to use BDSM as some odd sort of immersion/shock therapy and so on and so on.

As usual, I digress. I seem to be dominant... period. Not domineering, which in some circles gets me a lot of teasing. I've actually had a partner in a fit of pique call me a Mominatrix... shortly before he learned how very unhappy his "Momme" was with his disrespect and smart mouth.

I attribute my drive to dominance a bit to basic nature. The mere thought of me submitting in a BDSM and/or sexual sense makes my skin almost literally crawl. Conversely, I almost WISH I could do that, as I think it would make me a stronger, more balanced, wise and complete person to be able to experience both. I think more of it my need to be in control is actually enculturation.

Weird, for someone born in the time and place I was, isn't it? I predate most of the social revolutions that make this forum possible. For four generations that I can remember, the women in my family were tough, strong, take charge women within the confines of the roles they were culturally allowed to possess. My great-grandmother, born in 1867, actually told me once "Daughter, there is no point in getting angry with a man, because most men are just *pitiful*. But the only thing more pitiful than that is a woman who can't cope". This was a woman who raised fourteen children to adulthood (she never lost even ONE) and outlived three husbands, in the days before both antibiotics and anesthetics.

Add to that being the oldest nine children, and I'm afraid the pattern was set for life just about the time I decided to walk. LOL


This post made me smile, thank you. Perhaps because it is somewhat in line with a writing project I have been working on.

Another thing that I think can affect how and what we identify with, is our own maturity. For myself, I have found that as I have aged I have become more comfortable expressing my inner self with less concern for "fitting in" or trying to be something I am not. Whatever the reason behind it. As we mature we become more comfortable within our own skin, we allow the garbage of the past less dominance in our lives, we are happier with who we are and how we fit or not within the world around us.

As a woman, growing up where and when I did, being dominant was just sooooooo not cool. There were expected roles and ways to be. Getting past that was a struggle. Add a bunch of other issues piled on by life and it was a difficult growth process that is still ongoing. Gladly so, I might add. Weird as that might appear, I love the process.

Life involves other people and things that will always be beyond our control wether we are a dominant or submissive person. Maturity is in recognising that and finding the best avenues for coping and most importantly, disciplining and, in essence, dominating ourselves........regardless of what else, or whom else, we can or cannot, or even should, dominate.

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 9:17:55 AM   
Celeste43


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I don't subscribe to this. You might feel yourself the most dominant person on earth but when pulled over by a police officer, you're going to mind your speech and be very polite and nonconfrontational. At least you will if you are wise.

By the same token, you can be a person who is submissive in interpersonal relationships yet become the superior at work simply because you are so good at your work and at getting people to put their egos aside and work together.

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RE: Personality-Dynamics in BDSM - 8/11/2007 9:27:41 AM   
SayaNereida


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Greetings dorei, Within my BDSM relationship I am submissive; I do have slight switch tendancies.  Within romantic, marriage sexual or LT relationship, I am submissive.  As a grand daughter, daughter, sister, and Aunt I am submissive.  As a Mother I am a passive dominant.As a friend I am a passive dominant, the the exception of one friendship which I was submissive.As a professional I am a passive dominant.  Even in all the cases I say I am submissive, there have been times were my being dominant within that relationship has been/is required.   For example, my sister was in the hospital for surgery.  The day after she was in a great deal of pain but was refusing the pain shot (due to a fear of needles).  When I came in I could see she was in a great deal of pain.  I found her nurse, told her my sister needed a shot.  She said she has been refusing.  I told her to just bring the shot, I'd make sure she took it.  I walked into my sisters room, helped her roll on her side, talking to her and explaining that she needed the shot.  The nurse came in and went to the other side of the bed.  My sister began whining and saying no, she didn't want the shot.  When the nurse looked as if she were about to walk away, I told her to stop and give her the shot.  She said the patient refused.  I asked my sister do you trust me, and do you trust me to speak for you.  She said yes.  I said, 'You heard her, now I say give her the shot please'.  The shot was given, the nurse and my sister were grateful and all was well.  Later, my sister remarked that she had never seen me behave that way, it was interesting to watch, and that she appreciated that I could and did take charge.  I can be dominant and take charge, I do it well when I must; but I much prefer to be submissive, following someone else's lead and offering assistance to aid in their success.  I prefer and am much more comfortable in submission but I will do as the situation requires. So, I suppose I technically do not fall within the 3 choices offered.   The strength I find for myself is in being submissive, I tend to spend much time sitting quietly and watching others, and in doing so often see objectively clearer paths than they might or might not choose for themselves; so when my advice or opinion is requested, it is often given with a clearer understanding of the person or circumstance SayaNereida

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