RE: Just a vent

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jmslilbytch -> RE: Just a vent (7/31/2007 8:54:12 PM)
There's nothing wrong with your viewpoint or your feelings. It's just that other's may not agree. The key is to take the time to find a Dom that thinks along the same lines. As far as submission being a gift, I can't say that my submission to J is. I belong to Him, plain and simple. He will listen to what I have to say...mostly when He asks. If it is at a "do not speak" time, not at all. During casual conversations, always. What I'm getting at is that it is up to Him. Just as any other decision is. QUOTE> Just that I was sick of it. Sick of those wanna bees, just being a dom to get laid. END QUOTE Welcome to life, and/or the internet. There are "wanna bees" and people just wanting to get laid all over the place. Learn to weed them out, ignore those you don't wish to converse with, r/l included. If you can't converse, you can't do anything else. QUOTE>I have read so many threads in the past few days, on this site and others about Doms not taking their subs feelings/thoughts/concerns into consideration.<END QUOTE I could be wrong, but if there are so many posts on uncaring Doms, seems like the subs need to delve a little deeper prior to submitting? Try a nilla relationship for a good long while before you jump into a BDSM one. Perhaps then they will know who they are dealing with. Again, as I stated above, ultimately whatever the situation, it is His decision. Perhaps some of these subs submitted without realizing this?

MaamJay -> RE: Just a vent (7/31/2007 9:28:13 PM)
I know the whole "gift" thing drives people (and Me) crazy at times. So much so that I get subs to read several articles about whether it is or is not a gift and then encourage them to come to their own position. I think some of the problem lies in people's definition of the word gift. Most seem to take it in terms of a "present" ... something they receive for a special occasion ... and that seems to bring about a very negative response, such as seen in this thread. It does that with Me too if I look at it that way. However, a look in a dictionary or 3 is interesting: Pronunciation: 'gift Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old Norse, something given, talent; akin to Old English giefan to give 1 : a notable capacity, talent, or endowment 2 : something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation 3 : the act, right, or power of giving I see all 3 meanings of "gift" here as relevant ... 1. a particular capacity or talent (can someone have the "gift" then of being submissive?); 2. something that is freely given (perhaps as opposed to something which is taken? As I subscribe to the belief that a Dominant can't "take, command or demand" someone's submission (and I rather feel that was what the OP was venting about) ... I believe that at best, they can only inspire it to be "given" or transferred to them); and 3. the act or power of giving (isn't that what power exchange is about? The submissive exercising their power of giving when they yield control of various things to the Dominant?) I find it fascinating that the dictionary I used (Merriam Webster) doesn't put the "present" aspect of the word gift in its top 3 meanings. Yourdictionary has the same 3 meanings but in a different order. The Cambridge was the first one to put the "present" aspect (as in birthday or wedding gift) at the top. Comments anyone? Maam Jay aka violet[A]

rmanrr -> RE: Just a vent (7/31/2007 9:48:30 PM)
Greetings ummm....yeah...what she said. This particular girl thinks like I do, she does not have to try and get into My head, she is already there. And absolutely, if you meet anyone, do so as man to woman....build from there for as someone I hold very dear and respect said once...you have to be able to get along in all ways, after all there has to be something you can do the other 22 hours of the day....heh heh.

WhiplashSmile -> RE: Just a vent (7/31/2007 10:07:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaamJay Comments anyone? Maam Jay aka violet[A] I have a sheepish grin on my face, because I've been properly Merriam Webster bitch slapped now. I totally have to agree 100% with you MaamJay on this without question now. Yes, you are right most people think in terms of it being a present, and I've been guilty of hell of seeing it in this light. You are also right, there are a hell of a lot of online Doms attempt to demand submission for just talking with somebody. Hence my small little rant about submission being something the submissive desires. Actually, is she submiting or is she making the choice to be domed? Is the water glass 1/2 empty or 1/2 full? This was in part my rant about Dominance being a gift as well. Because if a submissive wants me to Dom her, would this not be a gift to her as well. I know I don't see any Dominance is a Gift threads being started up and debated left and right. The thing that bothers me, is that this makes it sound like it's only the Doms chasing after the submissives. In reality there are submissives chasing down Dom/mes even. Now, in this case where a sub is chasing down a Dom, should it not be viewed as gift from the Dom to the submissive? I respect Goodgirl85 for her comments in her last post. I just don't Dominant anybody that happens along my path, not in terms of engaging in a BDSM D/s relationship at least. lol. Basically, this is one of those debates I never had with anybody in the real time. Every time I've seen it come up, the context of it being a sort of "present" is how it's been talked about most. Thank you MaamJay for pointing this out.

MaamJay -> RE: Just a vent (7/31/2007 10:36:31 PM)
Awwww Whippie, I'd never bitch-slap You and I won't let Merriam-W do it either LOL! Actually, in many ways, D/s is a mutual gift in that, as someone chooses to submit, so someone else chooses to Dominate! Both need to have the capacity or talent (or gift) to do that, both should be doing so voluntarily (though there may be mutual compensation), and both are experiencing the power of giving. Thanks for reading and having the honesty I have come to expect from You to admit that You'd been one-eyed in the past! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

Satyr6406 -> RE: Just a vent (7/31/2007 10:43:13 PM)
I could have sworn that that was, basically what I said. Peace and comfort, Michael

Estring -> RE: Just a vent (7/31/2007 10:45:28 PM)
This is why I have a slave.

goodgirl85 -> RE: Just a vent (7/31/2007 11:14:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile quote: ORIGINAL: MaamJay Comments anyone? Maam Jay aka violet[A] I have a sheepish grin on my face, because I've been properly Merriam Webster bitch slapped now. I totally have to agree 100% with you MaamJay on this without question now. Yes, you are right most people think in terms of it being a present, and I've been guilty of hell of seeing it in this light. So happy to see you admit this. You are also right, there are a hell of a lot of online Doms attempt to demand submission for just talking with somebody. Hence my small little rant about submission being something the submissive desires. Actually, is she submiting or is she making the choice to be domed? Is the water glass 1/2 empty or 1/2 full? This was in part my rant about Dominance being a gift as well. Because if a submissive wants me to Dom her, would this not be a gift to her as well. I know I don't see any Dominance is a Gift threads being started up and debated left and right. The thing that bothers me, is that this makes it sound like it's only the Doms chasing after the submissives. In reality there are submissives chasing down Dom/mes even. Now, in this case where a sub is chasing down a Dom, should it not be viewed as gift from the Dom to the submissive? Maybe you should start one....lol I respect Goodgirl85 for her comments in her last post. I just don't Dominant anybody that happens along my path, not in terms of engaging in a BDSM D/s relationship at least. lol. Basically, this is one of those debates I never had with anybody in the real time. Every time I've seen it come up, the context of it being a sort of "present" is how it's been talked about most. Thank you MaamJay for pointing this out. Anytime you wanna have this or any other arguement in real time, track me down lol. I do appreciate your comment about respecting me smiles .... And think your a great person to admit that maybe you have been, as MaamJay put it... a little one eyed. When I speak of "gift" , I speak of it as MaamJay as put it, I just was not clever enough to write down the exact defitination. ANd thank you MaamJay, and Rmnarr for understanding what I meant in the first place. I was beginnging to feel like an alien. Lol. girl

chey -> RE: Just a vent (8/1/2007 6:11:26 AM)
And for all of those you don't agree that kinks can change... well.... people change don't they???? SO why can't their kinks change? And if their kinks change why shouldn't their Dom or even SUB for that matter sit down and listen to what they have to say??? I never meant to sound like a spoiled brat as I told through an email when I said I didn't expect to hear "Well you have no say cuz you're only a sub"... All I meant was that I expect my voice to be at least heard and considered in my Dom's decision... My interests and limits have changed over the years. I was just talking about it last night with someone. I am amazed at just how much! Not only did my limits and my kinks change but also my attitude, ideals, and philosphy on what works best for me. With time and experience come change I think. All in all it has helped me recognize what I need in a partner. My best relationships were with those dominant men who did listen to me and take my feelings into consideration. It did not always mean I got what I wanted but I have to admit that I was able to see a reason why they did things the way they did and most of the time everything worked out for the best. For example, in one situation I was invited to a family gathering (extended family) for Christmas Eve and since I do not always feel welcome I did not want to go. I discussed it with him (my dominant partner at that time) and in the end said that I would go if he wanted me to go. He did want me to go and told me his reasons and to be totally honest inside I was wanting to scream. I went and it turns out he was right I am closer to my family and had an amazing time. That is a pretty minor example but it is what I am talking about. There were other times I talked to him about something I did not want or did want and he chose to give it to me but what I found most important was that he really thought about it! He never made a decision just because he could or without thinking about what would be best for me or both of us. So I think you are right in what you said here!

CreativeDominant -> RE: Just a vent (8/1/2007 7:28:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaamJay I know the whole "gift" thing drives people (and Me) crazy at times. So much so that I get subs to read several articles about whether it is or is not a gift and then encourage them to come to their own position. I think some of the problem lies in people's definition of the word gift. Most seem to take it in terms of a "present" ... something they receive for a special occasion ... and that seems to bring about a very negative response, such as seen in this thread. It does that with Me too if I look at it that way. However, a look in a dictionary or 3 is interesting: Pronunciation: 'gift Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old Norse, something given, talent; akin to Old English giefan to give 1 : a notable capacity, talent, or endowment 2 : something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation 3 : the act, right, or power of giving I see all 3 meanings of "gift" here as relevant ... 1. a particular capacity or talent (can someone have the "gift" then of being submissive?); 2. something that is freely given (perhaps as opposed to something which is taken? As I subscribe to the belief that a Dominant can't "take, command or demand" someone's submission (and I rather feel that was what the OP was venting about) ... I believe that at best, they can only inspire it to be "given" or transferred to them); and 3. the act or power of giving (isn't that what power exchange is about? The submissive exercising their power of giving when they yield control of various things to the Dominant?) I find it fascinating that the dictionary I used (Merriam Webster) doesn't put the "present" aspect of the word gift in its top 3 meanings. Yourdictionary has the same 3 meanings but in a different order. The Cambridge was the first one to put the "present" aspect (as in birthday or wedding gift) at the top. Comments anyone? Maam Jay aka violet[A] Though I do not feel as "Merriam-Webster bitch-slapped" as Whip, I will concede that the above makes sense....except for Number 2. I think this is the area where most of us have wound up seeing it as a "present" when the phrase "submission is a gift" is uttered. And what is so bad about a present...or gift? Welllllllllllllll, when given as stated: voluntarily transferred to another WITHOUT compensation...then there is nothing wrong. One problem is that, many times, that present comes with all sorts of strings, not all of them on the surface so that they are seen and accepted as being there. Another problem is that many people think that the present they give is much shinier and much prettier and worth much more than it is and that the "gift" you give them in return no way measures up to the "sacrifice" sustained by them in giving theirs...even though they are supposed to "give theirs voluntarily (because they want to) without (thought of) compensation". I think I'd almost rather have them think of their submission in the Number 1 sense: They feel that they have the gift of submission and they know that, while it is useful and significant, there are plenty out there who also have been "gifted" with the art of submission. Therefore, what they are choosing to do is not just present their submission to a dominant but understand that they are getting something in return and what is taking place is a mutually wanted exchange of power.

MaamJay -> RE: Just a vent (8/2/2007 1:00:53 AM)
Good points there Creative. Actually, the more I've thought about it, the more I realise that even the birthday gift idea doesn't fit meaning 2 any better than submission does where compensation is concerned. The sad fact is that very few people in My experience truly give a gift with absolutely no strings attached ... there's usually some hopes or expectations somewhere ... eg "If I give X to them, maybe they'll give me Y for my birthday!", "If I buy them a nice birthday present, maybe they will spend more time with me than they do with person Z" etc etc. The idea of reciprocity seems to be part of the human nature and I wonder that meaning 2 is really meaningful! I agree that there may be similar strings attached if submission is given "as a gift" in that sense. Perhaps initially it is more like a loan ... or is it "I'm giving it to you for safekeeping but I'll take it back if I don't think you're taking care of it"? Perhaps once a relationship is well established, it may more truly emulate a "gift" in that reciprocity is not then so immediately sought ... though most of Us here would advise someone whose needs are not being met in a relationship to get out of it! Anyway, I'm glad this was food for thought. Maam Jay aka violet[A]

Mystique567 -> RE: Just a vent (8/2/2007 5:13:43 AM)
I am just here for the chocolate

sophia37 -> RE: Just a vent (8/2/2007 12:17:09 PM)
Listen, if your Doms job is to Protect, Guide, and Nurture you, and you dont want him anymore, well then..send him to me! Wouldnt I just love a man to do it all for me! Lucky girl.

ThunderRoad -> RE: Just a vent (8/2/2007 1:33:49 PM)
Earthycouple - you going to be at K Kollege? I'll bring some Godiva's along for you out of respect for your many wise words on here :)

EvilGeoff -> RE: Just a vent (8/2/2007 7:38:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthycouple ... Gifts aren't revoked. If you plan to pull it back, then your submission isn't a gift its a damn loaner! Preach on Sister, preach on!

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