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Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 6:06:05 PM   
kittinSol


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Something that I have suspected for some time now... some antidepressants are thought to suppress the 'crazy' feeling induced by falling in love. As falling in love is akin to going temporarily insane, the researchers of this new study think that suppressing the capacity for 'falling off the edge' may, in fact, remove the ability for falling... in love.

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-antidepressants30jul30,0,5491664.story

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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 6:19:17 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Something that I have suspected for some time now... some antidepressants are thought to suppress the 'crazy' feeling induced by falling in love. As falling in love is akin to going temporarily insane, the researchers of this new study think that suppressing the capacity for 'falling off the edge' may, in fact, remove the ability for falling... in love.

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-antidepressants30jul30,0,5491664.story


I have known about this connection for quite some time.  The article seemed to touch on this, but from my understanding antidepressants by design dull emotional responses, not just depression.  So everything becomes more lackluster than it was before, however, romantic love and the need for it seems hardwired into the human consciousness.

I was once asked if I wanted to be on antidepressants, I pointed out that my company had just gone under leaving me unemployed two weeks after I filed for divorce and moved out of the house my children lived in.  My response was "gee, I imagine I have every reason to be depressed, so no thank you."

I like to feel things until I dont feel them any more.  I dont want the cliff notes of my own emotions.

Sinergy


Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 6:21:44 PM   
thornhappy


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Hi kittin--

The migraine "drug tree" includes those meds, and I'll attest to the effects described.  When I was on Paxil, I didn't have much urge to find a mate.  When I went off Paxil, I got the screaming cuddle-hungries.

thornhappy

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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 6:35:14 PM   
kittinSol


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I completely understand, Sinergy... thing is, I guess, antideps have become such an indispensable weapon for modern living... many people seem to take them (I took them for years. On and off. Off and on. Like a fucking in and out tray, except less fun.)

Yes, they do dull my responses to things. I found the inability to cry very perplexing, for example.

I am not sure if it stopped me from falling in love: I seem to have an amazing ability to do that, wink wink.

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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 6:37:22 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Yes, they do dull my responses to things. I found the inability to cry very perplexing, for example.

I am not sure if it stopped me from falling in love: I seem to have an amazing ability to do that, wink wink.



Hang on to that, I personally think our connection to our emotional state distinguishes us from rocks.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 6:41:09 PM   
pollux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Something that I have suspected for some time now... some antidepressants are thought to suppress the 'crazy' feeling induced by falling in love. As falling in love is akin to going temporarily insane, the researchers of this new study think that suppressing the capacity for 'falling off the edge' may, in fact, remove the ability for falling... in love.

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-antidepressants30jul30,0,5491664.story


I have known about this connection for quite some time.  The article seemed to touch on this, but from my understanding antidepressants by design dull emotional responses, not just depression.  So everything becomes more lackluster than it was before, however, romantic love and the need for it seems hardwired into the human consciousness.

I was once asked if I wanted to be on antidepressants, I pointed out that my company had just gone under leaving me unemployed two weeks after I filed for divorce and moved out of the house my children lived in.  My response was "gee, I imagine I have every reason to be depressed, so no thank you."

I like to feel things until I dont feel them any more.  I dont want the cliff notes of my own emotions.

Sinergy


Sinergy


Here freakin here.

About 10 years ago I was in therapy for a time...had a lot of stuff going on.  At the end of it all I noticed that my counselor had made a marking in the diagnosis column of an insurance form or something.  It said "ARAL".

I asked her what that stood for.

She said, "Adjustment Reaction to Adult Life".

Jung was right.  The gods have become diseases.


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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 6:44:31 PM   
Sinergy


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I was in therapy about 15 years ago to deal with the issues that doing my mock assailant job, coincident with the incest survivors support groups referrals, kept bringing up.

Im generally a nice guy, and having women fold up into a fetal position, yell at me in a man's voice to leave her alone, and anything else a good granola might contain, took quite an emotional toll on me.

After discussing it with my therapist for a few months, he finally said that he did not mind continuing the therapy, but he had no idea or suggestions for how I should deal with it.

I thanked him for his time and learned to just deal with it.  I guess I just wanted the validation that it is a freakishly weird thing I got myself involved in.

Sinergy



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 7:08:38 PM   
Aswad


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kittinSol,

No shit. This has been documented since before SSRIs were marketed, IIRC.

You mean they didn't catch on until now?

It's one of many reasons I rarely recommend SSRIs as the drug of choice.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 7:10:55 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

Jung was right.  The gods have become diseases.



Thank you  for invoquing the spirit of Jung, Pollux. I hope you don't mind if I dig further into the quote:

"We think we can congratulate ourselves . . ., imagining that we have left all these phantasmal gods far behind. But what we have left behind are only verbal spectres, not the psychic facts that were responsible for the birth of the gods. We are still as much possessed by autonomous psychic contents as if they were Olympians. Today they are called phobias, obsessions, and so forth; in a word, neurotic symptoms. The gods have become diseases; Zeus no longer rules Olympus but rather the solar plexus, and produces curious symptoms for the doctor's consulting room."


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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 7:13:59 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

The article seemed to touch on this, but from my understanding antidepressants by design dull emotional responses, not just depression.


Swap the word "antidepressants" with "SSRIs", and you're spot on.
Swap it with "serotonergic enhancers", and you're generally right.
Leave it at "antidepressants", not so much.

Certain antidepressants enhance love and other emotions.

quote:


So everything becomes more lackluster than it was before


Depending on the severity of the original illness... It's quite possible to be at a level where you couldn't care less if every person you loved dies. Note the correct use of the preterite tense.

quote:


romantic love and the need for it seems hardwired into the human consciousness.


Not so much.

But PEA withdrawal is a variation on the theme of amphetamine withdrawal.

Now you know part of the reason why the females of the species like chocolate.

quote:


I was once asked if I wanted to be on antidepressants, I pointed out that my company had just gone under leaving me unemployed two weeks after I filed for divorce and moved out of the house my children lived in.  My response was "gee, I imagine I have every reason to be depressed, so no thank you."


Very good reply.

And I absolutely agree.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 7:15:45 PM   
pollux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

Jung was right.  The gods have become diseases.



Thank you  for invoquing the spirit of Jung, Pollux. I hope you don't mind if I dig further into the quote:

"We think we can congratulate ourselves . . ., imagining that we have left all these phantasmal gods far behind. But what we have left behind are only verbal spectres, not the psychic facts that were responsible for the birth of the gods. We are still as much possessed by autonomous psychic contents as if they were Olympians. Today they are called phobias, obsessions, and so forth; in a word, neurotic symptoms. The gods have become diseases; Zeus no longer rules Olympus but rather the solar plexus, and produces curious symptoms for the doctor's consulting room."



Sends shivers down my spine.

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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 7:17:22 PM   
kittinSol


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Absolutely, Aswad, but let's consider the fact that the pharmaceutical companies have developed enormous capacities for addresssing the ills of modern life. Their medication response is based on ad-hoc basis whereby they seem to offer a cure to something I think is uncurable...

It's patchwork. Their stuff's nothing better than sticking a tiny plaster on a gaping wound. Yet it's not innocuous! Like you and I and many others know, it covers up the essential aspects of the human experience. I am starting to think these drugs take away a lot of our impetus for living our lives.

I like being in love, and I like what it does to me. The rush, adrenaline and earth-shattering orgasmic capacity are treasures in my mind. I don't want to let them go, but what is the option, if it's a life of excruciating moral pain? We spoke about it before, but it's hard finding a quack that'll be humble and ready to experiment with less orthodox medication. Notwithstanding the drug company reps breathing down their necks...



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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 7:42:50 PM   
domiguy


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Drugs have many undesirable side effects....I was once taking a cough suppressant that made it difficult for me to poop.....Kitn, I feel your pain.  Tough question...Tis it better to have never known love than never to have shat?

< Message edited by domiguy -- 7/30/2007 7:43:57 PM >


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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 7:45:56 PM   
kittinSol


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Hmmmm... you probably took a codein-based cough suppressant. But I don't care whether it made you unable to sink a bronze, as long as it didn't interfere with your erectile function.

Engorgement: that's where love's at.

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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 7:49:19 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


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quote:

It's patchwork. Their stuff's nothing better than sticking a tiny plaster on a gaping wound. Yet it's not innocuous! Like you and I and many others know, it covers up the essential aspects of the human experience. I am starting to think these drugs take away a lot of our impetus for living our lives.


I don't see it as incurable. I see it as the medical field and pharmaceutical companies finds it easier to medicate than to actually delve into the problems from a psyche perspective. We are a fast food nation. We want fast cures, fast fixes. Why bother to address the actual problems when we can simply medicate and forget about them all together.

I'm going to shut up now because I will go on a total rant here.


_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 7:50:24 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Absolutely, Aswad, but let's consider the fact that the pharmaceutical companies have developed enormous capacities for addresssing the ills of modern life. Their medication response is based on ad-hoc basis whereby they seem to offer a cure to something I think is uncurable...


I've disputed the "uncurable" assertion in another current thread, so I'll spare you the reiteration. In fact, a lot of what I have to say, several pages of it, is in that thread, so why don't I just say that this link takes you to page 1 and that the interesting stuff is mostly on pages 1 and 2, IIRC? No need for me to copyspam here.

quote:


It's patchwork. Their stuff's nothing better than sticking a tiny plaster on a gaping wound.


Err... not so. But a lot of docs have a habit of sticking tiny plasters on gaping wonds.
In fact, around here, they sometimes do that to physical injuries in the public medical ward.
Doesn't change the fact that proper bandages, operating rooms, etc. are available.
Again, I've critiqued the system (good and bad) enough elsewhere.

If you have a gaping wound, you'd usually start out with trauma care in the ER. Transferring this to the psychiatric domain, that may mean ECT, or heavy duty drugs. Usually, at least if the doc has experience with it, this means pulling out the older drugs, the ones they made back in the 60's and still make so the hospitals don't have to synthesize them on their own (which they would, if production stopped). Stuff like tranylcypromine, phenelzine, isocarbaxozid, nomifensine, methamphetamine, opioids, and so forth. The ones no healthy person should touch, in short.

quote:

Yet it's not innocuous!


Neither is depression.

quote:


Like you and I and many others know, it covers up the essential aspects of the human experience.


Depends on the drugs.

One particular cocktail, which I couldn't stay on for various reasons, showed me what it meant to be human again, what it meant to have a soul, and to be me, or even have the concept "me", and it gave me the hope that I could eventually become a human being again.

SSRIs, however, have been nothing but trouble for me, though I know some find them useful.

quote:


I am starting to think these drugs take away a lot of our impetus for living our lives.


Again, depends on the type. SSRIs do. They're designed to, in a way. Three brain systems are involved in this, but I won't bore you with the details. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, however.

Amineptine, for instance, will tend to give you your motivation back.
MAOIs do much the same, and the old ones are robust mood elevators.

quote:


I like being in love, and I like what it does to me.


No doubt. Quick chemistry lesson:
Alpha-Methyl-PHenEThylAMINE is our internal love drug, with a methyl tagged on.

Their actions are strongly related.
Amphetamine is what is known as a homologue of that love drug.

quote:


The rush, adrenaline and earth-shattering orgasmic capacity are treasures in my mind.


That's what we call a "high".
But, yes, an enjoyable experience.
I've never had it internally induced, though.

quote:


We spoke about it before, but it's hard finding a quack that'll be humble and ready to experiment with less orthodox medication.


Talk to a university hospital. They might be more inclined to try such things.

I'd certainly like to see whether Ganesha can have a sustainable therapeutic effect.


< Message edited by Aswad -- 7/30/2007 7:53:08 PM >


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 7:52:49 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

I'm going to shut up now because I will go on a total rant here.



Please rant away... as long as they're not about Jesus or washing powders, rants fascinate me.

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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 7:56:21 PM   
domiguy


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I like to come out to these forums to find happiness and be chipper...you guys and your depression is really quite the buzz-kill.

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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 7:58:13 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

I've never had it internally induced, though.



What exactly do you mean by that  ?

I am rediscovering Erich Fromm. He spoke much of love.

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RE: Falling off the edge of love. - 7/30/2007 8:01:42 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

I'm going to shut up now because I will go on a total rant here.



Please rant away... as long as they're not about Jesus or washing powders, rants fascinate me.


LOL thanks kittinsol but I prefer to keep myself calm. It's been a long day and so called healthcare reforms are a bit of an automatic rise in the blood pressure.


_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to kittinSol)
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