Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line?

Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (Full Version)

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ProlificNeeds -> Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 6:21:24 PM)
I did a little search, but couldn't quite find what I was looking for to help settle my mind, so all thoughts on this would be appreciated. Someone I both respected, and had some secret hopes for, played a significant, and knowing deception upon me. In words and actions, this deception continued during the begining of what seemed like a very nice friendship, and was shaping up to perhaps be something more. That 'something more' got halted dead in it's tracks when the other party confessed to me, that they felt guilt and grief because they had been decieving me for a little over a week. They had been hiding their relationship and interactions with another person. (The details of this particular sticky whicket aren't what I need advice on really so I won't bother adding more detail.) Now the details of the situation came out enough for me to have a solid idea of what was going on, and it was quite a blow. I like to think I'm a forgiving person, but I was quite disappointed and hurt, yet I -wanted- to forgive this person, as they had seemed to express a great deal of remorse, and a sincere desire to set things right again. Yet, the actions I felt would amend this error, (revealing truth to the third party as well) has not been done. So where does one draw the line between forgiveness and 'get away from me you horrible person'? Behaviors still in effect make me wary, and obviously I now distrust this person, I'm afraid that my 'desire to forgive' is based in a less rational desire to 'get back what was lost' and not in a fair assessment of the person. So, what rules of thumb or potential guidelines do you all use when deciding when to forgive and forget, and when to run for the hills? If you didn't trust someone, would you still keep the friendship, if loosely, to allow that venue to one day open again if trust was ever re-established, or would you close it off for good?

SexyRed -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 6:24:46 PM)
while I applaud the fact that they fessed up to you, I would never trust them again. Been there, done that, will not do it again. Once lied to and betrayed, it will probably happen again.

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 6:26:57 PM)
fool me once shame on you......fool me twice.........well you know

slaveish -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 6:33:03 PM)
This person found someone else in a sexy / romantic way, I assume from your original post. Unless you both agreed it would not happen, I see no reason for it to not have happened. It seems that your ego is hurt because you wanted more but were not at that stage with this person. If it was strictly a friendship between the two of you, with only a ~hint~ of maybe something more some day, a complete close-off is out of order. There were no commitments and thus no reason for this person to "confess" anything to anyone; athough since he confessed to you, his non-confession to the other person is certainly a statement.

ProlificNeeds -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 6:52:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveish Unless you both agreed it would not happen, I see no reason for it to not have happened. We did have an agreement to share information about anyone we may meet and our interaction or interest with them. The witholding of information about the third party was quite against the spirit of our open agreement to be honest with eachother about other relations. It wasn't some strict promise or rule, I don't typically make pacts, deals or laws with friends. The information was purposefully withheld because this individual knew I would not be interested in pursuing more than friendship, if I knew there was another body involved.

windchymes -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 6:54:28 PM)
Forgiveness isn't something you do for THEM, it's something you do for YOU. Forgiving someone who has wronged you frees you of the burden of resentment and anger and allows you to walk towards the hills, not run, with your head up and your eyes open and a smile on your face. Forgiving them doesn't make what they did okay, or take any ownership away from them for the wrong that they did. It doesn't mean you accept what they did to you or make it any less wrong. It doesn't mean you trust them again. Whether or not to retain their friendship at whatever level is something you'll have to decide for yourself.

Estring -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 6:58:06 PM)
Actions speak louder than words. It seems as if this persons' actions are not backing up their words. Add that to the original deception and what do you have? Not alot to work with.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 7:01:44 PM)
I'm not sure I understand the situation. You had SECRET desires. There was no relationship in place. Exactly what did he do to deceive you? My guess is that he started fucking and playing around with another chick who happens to also be a friend of yours. They both knew you really wanted to be with him, but couldn't be mature enough to just say that they have feelings for eachother and so decided to be on the sly. Until the chick feels too guilty after finally getting the nooky she wants (and perhaps discovering he's not that great a lay after all) and decides there just isn't enough drama going on and to tell you. And not tell you as in "The three of us are here to tell you" sort of way but in a "whisper in your ear more secret" sort of way. You can forgive someone and still understand that they are not good relationship material.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 7:09:21 PM)
ok i am going to behonest here your a beautiful woman stop pissen with trash.. get your head out of your hiny and say i am no longer going to stand for being with people who do not respect my feelings or me as a person. i can not stand cushy people he was deceptive and not honest.. when you hide your feelings to spare someone elses it is wrong. your not being honest and that is not how someone should be in any relationship

ProlificNeeds -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 7:10:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I'm not sure I understand the situation. You had SECRET desires. There was no relationship in place. Exactly what did he do to deceive you? My guess is that he started fucking and playing around with another chick who happens to also be a friend of yours. They both knew you really wanted to be with him, but couldn't be mature enough to just say that they have feelings for eachother and so decided to be on the sly. Until the chick feels too guilty after finally getting the nooky she wants (and perhaps discovering he's not that great a lay after all) and decides there just isn't enough drama going on and to tell you. And not tell you as in "The three of us are here to tell you" sort of way but in a "whisper in your ear more secret" sort of way. You can forgive someone and still understand that they are not good relationship material. That's not really quite in the ballpark at all. I don't intend to deal with the particulars as I don't want advice on MY situation, I merely want to know what others peoples views on deception and forgiveness are.

AquaticSub -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 7:14:45 PM)
Forgiveness doesn't mean they get your trust again automatically. Part of realizing you have done something wrong is doing whatever you can to atone and make-up for your action. Sometimes you just don't get a second chance. As for me, it depends on what it is they did if they get a second chance or not.

proudsub -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 7:30:21 PM)
quote: I merely want to know what others peoples views on deception and forgiveness are. Hubby's forgiveness saved our marriage, and things are better than ever now. I don't agree with those who say "once a cheater always a cheater."

chellekitty -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 7:45:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds So where does one draw the line between forgiveness and 'get away from me you horrible person'? you can do both...as someone else mentioned forgivness is for you so you don't hold it inside you, festering away till it explodes....'get away from me you horrible person' is setting a boundary for your physical and/or mental safety quote: So, what rules of thumb or potential guidelines do you all use when deciding when to forgive and forget, and when to run for the hills? if its forgettable, you probably don't need to forgive...if you can't forgive, its time to run for the hills.... quote: If you didn't trust someone, would you still keep the friendship, if loosely, to allow that venue to one day open again if trust was ever re-established, or would you close it off for good? trust is earned....and once its lost its very hard to earn it back...not impossible, just very hard...if i am willing to make the effort to start from scratch...and in many cases with Power exchange relationships...entirely from scratch...if trust is a corner stone, the building falls down if its removed....if its not worth my effort, well then it wasn't meant to be, so i would move on and hope they would to...if our paths lead back to eachother, i would reevaluate it at that time... hope to have answered your questions chelle

Joseff -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 8:08:47 PM)
As the fable says, you can forgive, but you never forget. As far as trust is concerned, it takes much longer to rebuild than to build. Joseff

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 8:30:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: proudsub quote: I merely want to know what others peoples views on deception and forgiveness are. Hubby's forgiveness saved our marriage, and things are better than ever now. I don't agree with those who say "once a cheater always a cheater." you have to look at percentages what percentage will do it again i would say that your husband is in that rare percentage. i guess the best way is only those that are in the relationship know. look at their past to know the future

Cyntilating -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 8:50:30 PM)
Hi Prolific I am sorry that you face this situation..and I am sorry you are hurting... ....to feel the pain of a deception is to feel ourselves ashamed...not that we have done anything wrong, but it generally makes us feel "foolish, ashamed, dumb, ignorant, naive..makes us doubt our ability to choose wisely..." and often times that hurts us worse than the actual actions of the person who deceived us... at least that has been my experience.. so, as someone already said here, forgiveness is not something we do for "them" its something we do for ourselves... living in the distrust and anger, resentment etc....keeps us from learning and growing from it all.. keeps us stuck in the "blame" and " what ifs..... I hate what'ifs...they solve nothing and hurt like heck...lose frickin sleep over, cant concentrate on anything because your stuck in your head wondering how you could have done things different..practicing sentences and thoughts over and over "incase" ....uhg... hurts. forgive...for you : ) Mark Twain wrote: " forgiveness, is the fragrance a violet leaves on the heel of the foot that crushed it..." will I be able ( or should i ) to trust that person again? hard question, even harder answer....very individual with circumstances < i believe anyway... but I will also say that trust is built. so once broken has to be completely rebuilt.. If you chose to try to trust again> the consequences are theirs to feel and deal with > and you are entitled to every bit of question and doubt that arises until that person is able to become trustworthy in your heart and mind once again...... do you want to live in that for a time? the doubt...the questions.. is it worth that to you ? only you can answer that about what existed before the deceit... and do you want the relationship/person back ..or do you subconsiously want it "to work out better next time" because it will somehow redeem your self-doubting and anger at self for not "seeing more clearly" before...????? I had to ask myself these questions also.. smiles.. I could be completely wrong and youre not feeling any of the above...if thats the case> I apologize...just feeling empathetic I suppose and wanting to show my support to you ... what ever you decide> be happy with yourself first and foremost.. you are not the victim of deception.. that other person was/is...it is their loss and sadness to deal with...let them own it, not you.. Cyndi

mistoferin -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 9:23:58 PM)
I have no room for dishonest people in my life.

MzMia -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 9:29:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I have no room for dishonest people in my life. This best sums it up for me, in a nutshell.

beautyImurDaddy -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 9:47:45 PM)
you say that you are not seeking advice for you "your particular situation" yet you went in depth with it and defend your stance. If what you are seeking is a "generalization" as to peoples opinions as to deception and forgiveness, I really dont see where that can be generalized. You ask your boyfriend how he likes your new haircut... he says he likes it... but secretly hates it... that is a deception... he lied... does that mean you would throw away a relationship because he lied about liking your hair cut? Or lets say that he lies to you when he is not as available as he used to be... you suspect another woman... but in reality hes working another job to buy you an engagement ring.... again... a deception. So as you see, the details you hinted at... and your professing that you do not want the responses to be specific to "your situation", in reality... you are deceiving yourself... because that is EXACTLY what you want.

EvilGeoff -> RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? (7/23/2007 10:00:40 PM)
You're the one who has to live with the knowledge of the deception this person perpetrated. You know what value you put on this person and their friendship/potential relationship. You know what they did, you know what you required of them to do to make amends, and whether they did it or not... We don't. So, in the generic sense, yes, it's possible to forgive. Yes, it's possible to rebuild trust. Whether it is worth it in your case only you can decide.

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