RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line?

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RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? - 7/23/2007 10:18:52 PM

MsD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds
The information was purposefully withheld because this individual knew I would not be interested in pursuing more than friendship, if I knew there was another body involved.

I could not possibly ever trust that person again. If someone screws up but comes clean to me about it, fine ... but to purposely deceive cuz they knew that'd be the end of things ... I'd never be able to trust them again ... never. I would forgive them because I'm not going to waste my own energy holding onto anger. I could even be polite - but not friendly. To be a friend is to know you have a certain amount of trust in that person. Trust lost is hard won again with me ... but that's just me.

edited to add: a personal distinction here - little things are just that ... little things, so what, who really cares, really just irritants. It's the big things that lose trust. Where the lines are drawn between the little things and the big things is a very personal definition.

< Message edited by MsD -- 7/23/2007 10:28:55 PM >

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RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? - 7/23/2007 10:24:39 PM

brightspot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

Now the details of the situation came out enough for me to have a solid idea of what was going on, and it was quite a blow. I like to think I'm a forgiving person, but I was quite disappointed and hurt, yet I -wanted- to forgive this person, as they had seemed to express a great deal of remorse, and a sincere desire to set things right again. Yet, the actions I felt would amend this error, (revealing truth to the third party as well) has not been done. So where does one draw the line between forgiveness and 'get away from me you horrible person'?

All these heavy emotions with-in a little over a week? E-gads-

The best thing you could do is figure out what your boundaries
are and do not invest much of yourself or your emotions in anyone
until you have gotten to now them much better.

So maybe your question should be posed to yourself, something like....When is a good time to begin to open myself up to someone
and let my emotions start getting envolved?

For myself I have learned to move more slowly and let things evolve
at a slower pace, no matter how excited and wanting I might be.

Missy.

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RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? - 7/23/2007 10:33:28 PM

dirtyslagrosie

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how right you are! it took me months to totally trust Master as i had been hurt so much in the past, in the end i trusted Him totally loved Him lived my entire life for Him He promised swore to me that i was His only slave we were so happy together and then i found He had betrayed me that hurt so much the trust has gone i dont know how to get the trust back so we are having our own space for now whilst i think He has sworn to me it wont happen again but the trust has gone what do i do?

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RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? - 7/23/2007 11:40:30 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

My guess is that he started fucking and playing around with another chick who happens to also be a friend of yours. They both knew you really wanted to be with him, but couldn't be mature enough to just say that they have feelings for eachother and so decided to be on the sly.

Until the chick feels too guilty after finally getting the nooky she wants (and perhaps discovering he's not that great a lay after all) and decides there just isn't enough drama going on and to tell you. And not tell you as in "The three of us are here to tell you" sort of way but in a "whisper in your ear more secret" sort of way.

You might want to reread this part of the OP before having the third party executed for her crime.

"I like to think I'm a forgiving person, but I was quite disappointed and hurt, yet I -wanted- to forgive this person, as they had seemed to express a great deal of remorse, and a sincere desire to set things right again. Yet, the actions I felt would amend this error, (revealing truth to the third party as well) has not been done."

Celeste

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RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? - 7/24/2007 4:00:38 AM

ProlificNeeds

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

All these heavy emotions with-in a little over a week? E-gads-

No the deception was about a week long before it was revealed, I never stated the length of my association with the person.

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RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? - 7/24/2007 4:20:08 AM

julietsierra

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From what I can gather here, he did the deed, realized within a week that it was wrong, and told you about it. This doesn't sound like the machinations of someone who is intentionally setting out to deceive you over the long run. It sounds amazingly like a human being. It also sounds like the activities of a man who prior to that confession, was not exactly sure where he wanted the relationship to go and in fact, was exercising his right to <gasp> date..

The flip side of what we've been told is that he could have kept the other relationship going without your knowledge. He could have stopped the relationship and never said a word. In the first case, you may have eventually found out. In the second case, you may never have known. In either case, you are both new in your relationship, whatever that may entail (since you said you only had "hopes" of something more), and rather than looking at this as some grand and planned deception, you might just consider that he's not committed to you and as such, has the right to see who he pleases, when he pleases, if he pleases. The fact that he is telling you about what he's done, rather than that grand, planned deception, may indeed be him making the decision in your favor.

If he is breaking things off with the third party, who knows nothing about you, and probably only a little more about him, then what's the big deal about all the melodrama surrounding "telling the third party."

Cripe! Dating means you can decide not to see someone after a week. It implies no deep and everlasting relationship, and other than the fact that you're attempting to force public acknowledgement of your relationship with him in an effort to secure your position with him (nothing like a little peer pressure to keep the Dom in line), there is no rational reason for doing the big confession and contrition number.

If you want to look at it as deception, that's what you'll see. If you choose to look at it as a choice he wanted to make and you were chosen, you will see that too. If you are holding out your "forgiveness" as the golden carrot, then If I were him, instead of chasing that imaginary oh so blessed and valued expression of forgiveness when the relationship hasn't even been established beyond the friendship stage yet, then hell! I'd be walking away.

You might want to ask yourself if your expectations for his actions are in line with the level of your involvement with him and consider that just perhaps, you're expecting more from him than is appropriate. Just friends and hoping for more does not give either of those people the right to dictate the actions of the other.

juliet

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RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? - 7/24/2007 4:29:25 AM

julietsierra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

No the deception was about a week long before it was revealed, I never stated the length of my association with the person.

The length of time of your association with this person is irrelevent. By your own admission, your relationship with this person amounted to the fact that he was someone that you have "had some secret hopes for." Nothing more at this point. Demanding that he toe the line and publically acknowledge his relationship with you strikes me as oh so much territorialism.

Questioning whether you should bestow your gracious forgiveness upon him is ... well... amazing. Instead of forgiveness for him, you might want to consider that you're demanding an awful lot from someone you only "had secret hopes for."

juliet

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RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? - 7/24/2007 12:28:32 PM

MasterFireMaam

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Trust is a delicate issue. It CAN be rebuilt, given time...but it also takes you being willing to believe it can be done. However, going into a relationship expecting someone to change is unfair. Change is hard and therefore unlikely. Can you accept him as he is...someone who hides things because he doesn't want to hurt someone with the things he chooses to do? On the one hand, he's trying to avoid hurting someone, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but on the other, he's being deceitful. If you can accept him like this, IF he DOES change for the better (and it's entirely possible), it'll be a pleasant surprise.

Master Fire

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RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? - 7/24/2007 12:30:57 PM

SexyRed

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Joined: 8/19/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

All these heavy emotions with-in a little over a week? E-gads-

The best thing you could do is figure out what your boundaries
are and do not invest much of yourself or your emotions in anyone
until you have gotten to now them much better.

So maybe your question should be posed to yourself, something like....When is a good time to begin to open myself up to someone
and let my emotions start getting envolved?

For myself I have learned to move more slowly and let things evolve
at a slower pace, no matter how excited and wanting I might be.

Missy.

Missy, this is the best advice. I am going to get someone to needlepoint that on a pillow and look at it before each date, LOL

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RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? - 7/24/2007 12:59:03 PM

SayaNereida

Posts: 152
Joined: 7/10/2007
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"I don't intend to deal with the particulars as I don't want advice on MY situation, I merely want to know what others peoples views on deception and forgiveness are."

Forgiving a deception is easy as long as you understand their reason and accept it. Trusting the person after is a completely different story.

MY trust is only earned and given once. If it's broken there is no fixing it because the seed of doubt always remain with one or both and to me that's too much stress to put on any relationship.

"It's not easy being a cast-iron bitch. It takes discipline, years of training... A lot of people don't appreciate that."

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RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? - 7/24/2007 1:10:35 PM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyRed

quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

All these heavy emotions with-in a little over a week? E-gads-

The best thing you could do is figure out what your boundaries
are and do not invest much of yourself or your emotions in anyone
until you have gotten to now them much better.

So maybe your question should be posed to yourself, something like....When is a good time to begin to open myself up to someone
and let my emotions start getting envolved?

For myself I have learned to move more slowly and let things evolve
at a slower pace, no matter how excited and wanting I might be.

Missy.

Missy, this is the best advice. I am going to get someone to needlepoint that on a pillow and look at it before each date, LOL

Lmao, you are too funny SexyRed, yes, I think we all should make such a pillow or poster. Maybe write it on a mirror in red lipstick? hehehe!

Missy.

< Message edited by brightspot -- 7/24/2007 1:13:22 PM >

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RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? - 7/24/2007 1:44:42 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseff

As the fable says, you can forgive, but you never forget. As far as trust is concerned, it takes much longer to rebuild than to build.
Joseff

The one I like is

"It takes months to build a relationship, and seconds to destroy it."

What I find amusing are people who take months to build the relationship, then destroy it in seconds, then apologize or ask what they can do to fix it, and think it might be all better right away.

The first part of it is "It takes months to build a relationship." I would posit that "It takes months to rebuild a relationship" as well.

Sinergy

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RE: Deception, and forgiveness, where to draw the line? - 7/24/2007 1:48:46 PM

Satyr6406

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Joined: 3/27/2006
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To echo what a couple of other people have said: "I would rather deal with a thief than a liar. A thief just wants to steal your shit. A liar wants to steal your heart."

But, to be fair, he did finally come clean? Well, let me give away another "Guy secret" that makes guys want to kick my ass on a regular basis. IF he intended to "run araound" with two ladies. ALL the cheating guys know that the surest way to get caught is to keep both ladies in the dark. What a cheater needs to do is find a lady who is so morally and ethically repugnant that she is willing to join him in his deception.

IF his intention was to "string you along" until he felt that his relationship with you was strong enough to weather this kind of situation, that's manipulation and not worthy of someone who claims to be "dominant".

IF his intention was to "spark your jealousy switch" so as to "force you" into a decision (hopefully with him being the beneficiary) then, again, that's manipulative.

As people have said: Just because someone claims to be dominant, that doesn't mean that they are an upstanding person. Frequently, domineering is confused with dominance. I think that these things kind of go hand-in-hand ...

A dominant tells the truth even when that truth could cause them some discomfort or harm.
A "domineer" (I'm not sure if that's a word but, I am not going to worry about my typing skills, right now) finds a way to manipulate situations to enable them to get what they perceive as comfort.

A dominant who wishes to "sow his oates" would have told you "That's a shame that we don't agree. Good luck." when you expressed your desire to not be "one of many".
A "domineer" would find a way to get what he wants no matter what the emotional cost to you or anyone else.

I, personally, believe that in order for myself to respect someone as a dominant, they have to exhibit a certain standard of behaviors which society, in general, is lacking. So, as at least one other person said; look for that dominant that measures up to your estimation of what a man should be; honest, caring, etc.

I did a post, some months back, where someone put forth the idea that "dominant" or "master" was just some title that people hung on themselves. How sad is that thought, when we match it against what many of us believe this lifestyle should be about?

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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