Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (Full Version)

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Level -> Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 5:14:26 AM)

SUNAPEE, N.H. - Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said Thursday the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems and that preventing a potential genocide in Iraq isn’t a good enough reason to keep U.S. forces there.

“Well, look, if that’s the criteria by which we are making decisions on the deployment of U.S. forces, then by that argument you would have 300,000 troops in the Congo right now — where millions have been slaughtered as a consequence of ethnic strife — which we haven’t done,” Obama said in an interview with The Associated Press.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19862711




Sinergy -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 6:24:56 AM)

[sarcasm]

You are not seriously suggesting that the Bush Administration has any other interest in keeping our
military in Iraq apart from humanitarian grounds?

Say it isnt so.

[/sarcasm]

Sinergy




Alumbrado -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 6:26:59 AM)

Obama is a member of the Bush administration? 

Or are you starting the derail early?




meatcleaver -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 6:28:44 AM)

Whoever is the next President, the problem in Iraq is always going to be a problem caused by America (and poodle) and any genocide will be blamed on him/her by the world community.

The Congo is irrelevent in this instance because that has nothing to do with America (and poodle).




farglebargle -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 6:34:41 AM)

Genocide is Genocide. If your ALLEGED MOTIVATION is to stop slaughters and genocide, it's hypocritical to invade and occupy the oil fields of Iraq, but not invade and occupy sub-saharan Africa.

Of course, we all KNOW that Bush is full of shit with his justifications for being in Iraq, don't we?





meatcleaver -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 6:36:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Genocide is Genocide. If your ALLEGED MOTIVATION is to stop slaughters and genocide, it's hypocritical to invade and occupy the oil fields of Iraq, but not invade and occupy sub-saharan Africa.



Hmm I guess they haven't found oil in the Congo yet?




Sinergy -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 6:37:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Obama is a member of the Bush administration? 

Or are you starting the derail early?


For those playing the home game, I was making a sarcastic comment supporting Obama's point. 

One of the oft-touted reasons this administration uses to justify our continued presence in Iraq has been on humanitarian grounds.  To whit; we leave, there will be violence, therefore, we must stay.  Obama is simply pointing out that the reasoning used by AnencephalyBoy is disproven since the US not sending humanitarian troops everywhere else one sees sectarian violence.

From the standpoint of basic set theory, you have the set of Iraq, Somalia, Congo, Sri Lanka, etc.  These are all contained in the set of States embroiled in Sectarian Violence.  The United States (another set) says that it is using it's military to prevent sectarian violence in states which may become embroiled in it.  Yet the only member of the set of states embroiled in sectarian violence which the United States military is involved in is Iraq. 

For the Bush administration's claim to be valid, our military would need to be involved in 100% of the states embroiled in sectarian violence, and it is not.

I can try to scan in a Venn diagram if it would help.

Sinergy

p.s.  Please dont take this post to mean that I want our military involved in any of them.

edited to switch East Timor (which may have violence) to Sri Lanka (which does have violence)




farglebargle -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 6:37:55 AM)

Not enough to make invasion and occupation worthwhile...

Of course, we don't HAVE the troops or material to actually invade and occupy another nation right now, do we?




Alumbrado -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 6:47:10 AM)

I notice that a lot of atrocities are irrelevant to some people, unless they can figure out a way to spin them into propaganda.

On the OP,  "the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems " certainly works on the 'square peg, round hole' level. 
There might be military operations that have resulted in some form of relief for people in distress, but the basic function of the military has more to do with causing specific others distress of their own.

But the question that should be answered by the next words out of Obama's mouth would be, 'Then what should the US do about Darfur, et al.?"

Any bets on if he will provide such an answer?




farglebargle -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 6:58:23 AM)

quote:


On the OP, "the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems " certainly works on the 'square peg, round hole' level.


Actually, since it's not explicitly delegated to the Federal Government, by Constitution or Amendment, it is manifestly NOT AUTHORIZED.

You wanna be the world's caretaker, AMEND THE CONSTITUTION TO DELEGATE THE AUTHORITY.





Alumbrado -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 7:15:41 AM)

Another attempted derailment, the function of any military has much to do with putting holes in, and blowing up things.
So the quote in the OP stands on its own merits.

And the follow up question remains ineptly dodged.




farglebargle -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 7:44:30 AM)

Certainly, the function of an army is to kill people and destroy property.

But the USAGE of an army is tightly regulated by the Constitution. And if the Constitution doesn't EXPLICITLY DELEGATE authority, authority DOES NOT EXIST.

The solution is simple for all the bleeding heart liberals who believe it's RIGHT for the USA to use military force for humanitarian purposes.

AMEND THE CONSTITUTION TO DELEGATE THE AUTHORITY.

Otherwise, anyone advocating such a course of action, without duly delegated Constitutional Authority, I would suggest HATES AMERICA, AND AMERICAN VALUES.

You cannot shit on the Constitution and still profess to love the nation.





Sinergy -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 1:05:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The solution is simple for all the bleeding heart liberals who believe it's RIGHT for the USA to use military force for humanitarian purposes.



As a tree-hugging, owl saving, granola eating, rainforest protecting, trail building, science funding, (BWL) bleeding heart liberal, I take offense to this.

Congress has allowed the military, in the past, to be sent on peacekeeping missions at the behest of the Commander In Chief.  This has not been solely at liberal vs. conservative thing.  While you are correct in your statement that the Constitution would need to be amended to allow it, my knowledge of the practice and interpretation of Constitutional law is relatively meager.  Accordingly, I do not know whether there was a challenge to it's constitutionality for the US to be involved in UN peacekeeping.

To suggest that bleeding heart liberals have much, if anything to do the nonsense in Iraq and Afghanistan is simply idiotic.  They (BHL) would never have voted for the AUMF if they had not been lied to by the Simian in chief.  As I pointed out in a previous post, I have been in opposition of almost every war the United States has ever been involved in.  The possible exception to this is World War 2, although I tend to be from the school of historians who think World War 1 and World War 2 were the same war with an intermission to rearm.  Well, that and the addition of a few new participants.

I have also posted repeatedly that we have plenty of humanitarian things which need doing in this country, like rebuilding New Orleans, regaining our scientific supremacy, supplying our people with clean food and water, ending our dependance on fossil fuels, supplying our people with jobs, health care, etc.

The last thing Bleeding Heart Liberals want to do is promote the interests of the Corporatocracy.

Sinergy




luckydog1 -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 1:38:03 PM)

Actually Congo has  alot of oil (so does Sudan), as well as Gold, Diamonds, Uranium, and others




farglebargle -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 3:02:33 PM)

quote:


The last thing Bleeding Heart Liberals want to do is promote the interests of the Corporatocracy.


My point is that the people who pretend to decry Socialism ( e.g.: Neocon Party Whores ) are it's most enthusiastic proponents.





Real0ne -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 3:33:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Genocide is Genocide. If your ALLEGED MOTIVATION is to stop slaughters and genocide, it's hypocritical to invade and occupy the oil fields of Iraq, but not invade and occupy sub-saharan Africa.



Hmm I guess they haven't found oil in the Congo yet?



and its to far away from china :)




Sinergy -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 6:19:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


The last thing Bleeding Heart Liberals want to do is promote the interests of the Corporatocracy.


My point is that the people who pretend to decry Socialism ( e.g.: Neocon Party Whores ) are it's most enthusiastic proponents.




Well, leave me out of it, I have my own issues with Socialism.

I have posted repeatedly that we already have it, but none of the Right Wing Cheerleading Squad want to admit it.

Sinergy




mnottertail -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 6:27:24 PM)

because you are a left-wing, liberal democrat--------

that is the only way they come---------------------

LOL.

you and your ilk are like the pinko faggot commie John Birch H. L. Hunt tree hugging ban guns, never do violence let us choke in our own vomit kinda pisswiping liberal that thinks that the media has a conservative slant when you can listen any day to the behomoth of knowledge that says, my name is rush limbaugh and this country is being torn apart by people against conservative values which no one can understand, so I will not elucidate them here....

Just fuckin' admit your error, Sinergy.

Tomas de Torquemada





Sinergy -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 6:34:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Hunt



I dont.

quote:



ban guns



No, I actually agree with the other side.  I am deeply suspicious of any government agency that thinks gun control is a good idea.

Gun violence is a symptom.  Not a problem.

Fix the problem, Im all over it.

quote:



never do violence



Hope you never force me into a position where I have no way out.  Might discover that this doesnt really apply to me.

Dude, I teach full-contact self defense.

quote:



let us choke in our own vomit kinda pisswiping liberal that thinks that the media has a conservative slant when you can listen any day to the behomoth of knowledge that says, my name is rush limbaugh and this country is being torn apart by people against conservative values which no one can understand, so I will not elucidate them here....



I cant.

Rush or Coulter or Bush make a statement, I can use GOOGLE to determine that it is a lie.

Sinergy




mnottertail -> RE: Obama: Don't stay in Iraq over genocide (7/20/2007 6:39:09 PM)

Well, just as I said, you aint a conservative so you know what that means, and I am so tired of you coming out here without any justification and pissing on the only true and right position, because I have websites, and you only have your pissant reality that you can see out of your myopic little commie eyes.

We are winning the war of attrition............

Lyndon Johnson......circa 1967




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