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REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 10:25:06 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		My poor little dysfunctional BDSM community is like many others, fractured, and full of resentment, etc.  Groups refusing to support our only playspace because "she" runs it (for perspective, I like the "she" in question), groups badmouthing other groups, spreading bullshit "bdsm history" in order to get laid, etc.

SO, my question is for those who have had luck in rebuilding a community, in healing wounds, real and imagined.  What have you done that worked or didn't and why?
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RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 10:40:14 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		I have to ask - whats the point of rebuilding it?

To some degree I think the local communities will always be fractured.  I can't say I've lived or been part of a local community that wasn't, to some degree.  And really, I just feel like I have so much more that I can do with my time than the impossible.

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 10:48:29 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Michael, I have never seen a community successfully rebuilt with all of the original members in tact. What generally happens is that someone will get fed up and leave, start a new group and then people will affiliate themselves with the group that most meets their ideals. This sometimes results in one group that doesn't survive, but sometimes it leads to two (or more) stronger, more cohesive groups (at least they are temporarily more cohesive).

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 10:55:34 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		I travel around my local area to several groups, and meet pretty much the same people at all of them. Lately Ive been profile surfing on here and other groups like it and finding more and more people from my area ive never met. I send them a polite message asking if they ever go to local events and I constantly get the same response "no, we dont go" or "no, we travel to another areas events"..."because I dont get along with the person who runs the local stuff" I get it ALOT...adn if I didnt have UMs and a had more secluded house Id host my own dagum events...I hate it, the truth is I dont really get along with the guy who runs our local events either, but I go to meet other people, not him...

I think its hard, once people get jaded, to convince them to come try it again...

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~Woody Allen

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RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 11:34:32 AM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Back in the day, when Charlemagne held sway over most of what is now Europe, I was just getting involved in the Lifestyle.

Sure, you could find the odd dungeon in some dank castle, but they didn't have too many of those in these here parts.  And there certainly weren't the pay-to-play facilities that there are today.  And come to think of it, if you have all your own gear, including your own playroom, who the hell wants to pay to play?

I was involved in a couple of groups back then, one a 'purely' MaleDom/FemSub group, and the other was a couples group.  The couples group met in the 'home' (think industrial-type setup but not nearly as nice) of an older TV.  (How a couples group was run by a 'single', I'm not certain.  But you had to be referred, so who was I to complain?)  By today's standards, it was the type of setup that would house a Pro-Domme.

The other group had an 'organizational' (cough) meeting at a public restaurant.  Think a precursor to today's munch.  After that, the monthly gathering/play party would be held at someone's or another's home.  In fact, I hosted a goodly number of them myself.  Apparently that made me a dungeon-master.  I had the playroom and the 'furniture' and most of the players (not everyone played) would bring their own toys.  If someone wanted to play with something more exotic, I would lend my stuff and watch it like a hawk.

So, Michael, why not be radical and see who wants to have their homeland invaded periodically by strangers-who-become-friends?  If you want to have 'fees' to cover party supplies and whatnot, that might be fine too.

Build it, and they will come.  Or so I've heard.

Jeff

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RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 11:52:26 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I guess I didn't post enough information and there was some I was holding back.

I think having multiple groups with their own flavor/style is a good thing and there are enough of people in Sacramento to support that.  What brought this to a head is that Jack Rinnella is coming to town and the reactions have been interesting.  The gays are not coming at all, why I have no idea and inquiries have not lead anywhere.  Other groups didn't want to mix with the other other groups and so set up their own dates, which on some level is fine but at the same time it makes it harder to get other speakers and educators let alone hold larger events like fleas and such.

What I and others are proposing is that the groups that DO want to work together just start modeling good behavior and start hosting more "community" events and if others want to come, fine.    As an example, years ago when I was active I organized a "community" lunch and essentially strong armed and or guilted all the other groups into coming and while there were plenty of people sitting there with their arms crossed and scowls on their face, lots of people had a blast.  I spoke of doing this at one of the "outside" groups and their response was NEVER!  I let it die then but I think I am going to say fuck it and just start doing community stuff and let the chips fall where they may.

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 7/16/2007 11:53:39 AM >

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RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 11:57:36 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		People come into the scene in a particular group and very quickly get sucked into the drama of that small set of people because it helps them feel like they belong.  They don't have the perspective to see all the pointlessness and neverending cycles.  And more than a few become drama seekers and lovers themselves along the way.

I just let them be them.  It means I don't get invited to a lot of "private parties" and it means I really don't have many "friends" in the scene- but it means I'm more than comfortable going to ANY local event that I want whenver I want, that I have people I can talk to at any of those events, and that the friends I do pick up are worthwhile people.

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RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 12:26:40 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		LA,

That is the model I am going to use but scaled up to include the groups that can get along and figure that more people than not want to be part of a community that works to build each other up not tear each other down.  If figure if we can build a small but healthy community, the people who want a healthy community will start sticking around and it will simply become the community and marginalize the drama queens.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 1:03:29 PM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		I've moved in and out and in and out and mostly out of "the scene" as it is. Same with the queer group thing.

And mostly I find that it's a rough battle - because when all people have in common as a point of coming together is something as personal, loaded, and intense as sexuality, you just are going to have some insanity.

And I think a lot of us go through mellowing which leads us to drop out. I'm as much a lattee person and a chronically ill person and a craftswoman as I am "a Domme" at present, probably way more so - and that's fine.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 1:13:14 PM   
CrazyC


Posts: 949
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		There are many things going on that you have brought up. I am only talking from my experience of how group division and rebuilding can happen in another format, and not exactly BDSM. But people are people, so there must be some similarities.

First if other side groups feel there is a friction between two groups, they will step away to stay out of the shit throwing. Then there is the seperation of groups that probably will never come back together, but only through time there will be an understanding. (Hopefully!)

Community events might not bring everyone together, so that idea should probably be understood. Community events do make the ties of those who build them to be stronger, and that can bring in outsiders. I support the idea completely, and I believe there are enough here to want this also.


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RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 2:52:28 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

My poor little dysfunctional BDSM community is like many others, fractured, and full of resentment, etc.  Groups refusing to support our only playspace because "she" runs it (for perspective, I like the "she" in question), groups badmouthing other groups, spreading bullshit "bdsm history" in order to get laid, etc.

SO, my question is for those who have had luck in rebuilding a community, in healing wounds, real and imagined.  What have you done that worked or didn't and why?


When I first met Jay Wiseman he told me over dinner about his idea of providing conflict resolution services for local leather communities.  Being the type that's perpetually unaware of things that don't interest me, I offered some polite comments to what I thought was a silly idea. 
 
But in the ensuing years I made a mental note of the instances in which such conflicts became obvious, and I was startled at the frequency.  I still am.  It boggles my mind that people have the time and energy to waste on such drama.  But no matter leather or vanilla, it seems as though many folks do thrive on drama.
 
Jay continues to offer these conflict resolution services, and I suppose he would be as good a resource as anyone. 
 
John

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Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 3:41:02 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Funny you should mention Jay.  My copy of his bondage book was signed "to a fellow organizational masochist".  He knows Sacramento pretty well and because of his past here I don't think he is the one to help out but I will ask him for some advice.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 3:59:26 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Michael,
At first I was surprised to witness the animosity between the various factions of what is regarded as the "lifestyle" community. Then I realized that "our" community was no different than any other. It is made up of people with egos and agendas that rarely, if ever, come into alignment. The most innocent of intentions or suggestion can be taken as attack especially when passed on to the community 2nd hand by someone else with yet their own perspective and agenda. I saw it first hand, when at a meeting where many of the various LGBT and Leather representatives where brought together pointed to the subject of unification and the very event that brought them together was called into question. The organizers saw it as offering more space and opportunity because the founding group had gotten too large. The perspective of the original group was that the organizers were a "splinter" fringe who hurt the community by reducing attendance at the other facility. How can there be "community" when not only personalities but economics come into play? One persons "crowded play space" is another's "profitable play space". How can there be resolution when in fact - both are right?

Add philosophies, and prejudice and you start with difficult task. Exactly who is allowed into the community you envision? Spankers or those into think spanking is abuse done with a cane and/or raises a welt? Gor? Third person speakers? Cross-dressers? Pre or post OP transgendered? With limits or without? Sex or no sex? Exchange of fluids or body condom? High or low protocol? Female supremacists? Would you limit anyone using a whip from going "sonic"? There are groups and clubs that are limited to each and every one of those issues within driving distance from you.

The gay community provides a perfect example. When they marched on Washington, they didn't want the "Leather-Men" to walk together behind a banner because they said the leather BDSM community gave the movement a "bad image". Perspective plays a big role in the polarization. Always remember this regarding perspective; I'm kinky...YOU - are perverted! You want to form an organization where your "kink" will be associated with all those perverts!?

There is also the aspect of 'power'. It takes confidence and 'balls' to come out. Once you do so, many of those same confident and 'ballsy' individuals usually want to lead, take on a significant role, or have their personal position and perspective take a predominate place in the agenda. This isn't only associated with those on the handle end of the flogger. Dominant or submissive all have a need to feel powerful. Some of the very best organizations I've encountered are run by those identifying as submissive. They serve the organization with all the respect and effort as they do a relationship and at their hands it flourishes. Abdicating even just a part of that power and the standing of importance it gives to serve a "common good" would require a clear obtainable goal. Do you have one?

You're intent is to promote the "common good". Try to get agreement in defining that term. You have my support in the attempt. In broad strokes my "common good" definition comes easy. Any infringement of personal freedom to any person for any activity is against the "common good" of any activity associated with WIITWD. Seems like an easy position to stand behind however when you put up an issue, for instance say...cigarettes or public nudity, and the "common good" argument goes up in smoke, or gets covered by a wet blanket.

Is there a suggestion behind the long winded rhetoric? Find a community goal that covers the most people and get as many as you can to come under the umbrella. The more who see value and positive impact coming from achieving the goal the more likely, albeit temporarily, your "community" will come together.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 4:01:41 PM   
LadyIce


Posts: 406
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

My poor little dysfunctional BDSM community is like many others, fractured, and full of resentment, etc.  Groups refusing to support our only playspace because "she" runs it (for perspective, I like the "she" in question), groups badmouthing other groups, spreading bullshit "bdsm history" in order to get laid, etc.

SO, my question is for those who have had luck in rebuilding a community, in healing wounds, real and imagined.  What have you done that worked or didn't and why?


When I first met Jay Wiseman he told me over dinner about his idea of providing conflict resolution services for local leather communities.  Being the type that's perpetually unaware of things that don't interest me, I offered some polite comments to what I thought was a silly idea. 
 
But in the ensuing years I made a mental note of the instances in which such conflicts became obvious, and I was startled at the frequency.  I still am.  It boggles my mind that people have the time and energy to waste on such drama.  But no matter leather or vanilla, it seems as though many folks do thrive on drama.
 
Jay continues to offer these conflict resolution services, and I suppose he would be as good a resource as anyone. 
 
John


It does not boggle my mind, John.
Look at the CM "community" here.
Many people here make up the smaller local communities.
If we can not get along online, why would it be better or any different
in person?

< Message edited by LadyIce -- 7/16/2007 4:25:00 PM >

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 4:12:07 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Merc,

You bring up some excellent points as always.  I hadn't really thought about goals other than nebulous ones.  I have no interest in uniting the groups but it would be nice if they would start saying "if you enjoy x go to group y" rather than what it seems like which is "don't ever go to group y".

I think my goals are going to be to hold two or three "community" events a year where the community comes together even if they hold their noses.  If possible, work to reduce the animosity which is rarely justified in  my opinion.  And with the combination of those two encourage a feeling of "we do it our way, they do it there way" without the level of value judgement that goes on.


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RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 4:21:42 PM   
Mystique567


Posts: 273
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline 		I think this is definately a common problem everywhere, it makes no sense to me the way we, who are kept so secret and separate, would choose to segregate ourselves from each other.

We have the same issues up here, although I seem to care less about the politics and cross "party" lines all of the time. (Wish they had some kind of strip search for spies) It was all too apparent at the last Spankfest when I spent more time going back and forth between camps then I did at the demos. I think the common theme through all of this is can't we all just get along.

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RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 4:24:09 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Our local community has a monthly workshop that all the munches attend, even though most of the munches also have their own workshops.  The monthly socialization seems to keep things on a fairly congenial keel, beyond the fact that each of the munches is generally comprised of some kewl folks.
 
John

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 5:15:51 PM   
LadyHeart


Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

My poor little dysfunctional BDSM community is like many others, fractured, and full of resentment, etc. 


That really says it all. In BDSM, the only constant is change. All BDSM communities are like this, and it isn't going to improve unless human nature does - yeah, right! So, what to do?

Well, is it a bad thing to have alternatives? We share a common interest, but apart from that, have few other reasons to be one big happy family. Our approach is to concentrate on building our own group to the best of our ability, modelling the best behaviour we are capable of, and allowing those who wish to fraternize with the "others" the freedom to do so without fear of repercussions. Thus, some people will identify with one group or the other, while some will float cheerfully between them. Time heals most wounds, provided they aren't continually exacerbated, and most people respect strong leadership, even if they don't like it.

I would suggest committing your energies to the group you identify with most closely, and leave the rest to take care of itself. Give others the benefit of the doubt until they do something nasty to you (sadly, history does tend to repeat itself....) and then be ruthless about dealing with it. If you try to win a popularity contest you'll be walked all over. The community, fractured and dysfunctional as it is, does seem to survive regardless.

Good luck!
:))
LH

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RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 5:22:31 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		i wonder if it is possible, without creating more drama to have an "umbrella group" in which all the local groups have an equal say in whats done in that group (like senators, doesn't matter how many members, equal representation)...because there was talk of creating such a group in my city because we're running into so many "don't ever go to y group" issues and it doesn't help that certain people will jump on newbies and basically be psychic vampires, draining them of any desire they have to be in the lifestyle and then they finally run away in an attempt to save themselves...but anyway...if you ever figure out how to get the groups back together, please let us know

chelle

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: REbuilding a community? - 7/16/2007 7:37:16 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		One thing that Atlanta has that helps keep some of the drama down is the ARM night (Atlanta Regional Munch actually a play party) Hosting duties rotate every month from one munch group to the next. (We have 14 munches in the greater metro area) Because it rotates each group gets some say in how the overall scheme of the monthly party goes, but since it is only one month each they can't hijack the entire thing.

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