losttreasure
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Joined: 12/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CitizenCane
I frequently see what I think of as a perhaps more aggressive style of passive-aggression: Making 'neutral' statements that imply a desire for something that someone else should meet. For instance 'It's hot in here,' meaning 'you should go open the window.' The person makes a demand on someone without taking any responsibility for doing so, so they don't have to give credit or show appreciation, and can blame the other person if it doesn't work out well (the wind blows papers off the desk- 'why did you open the window, dumbass?').
I think there are both proactive and reactive methods of passive-aggressive behavior. The type you describe above would be proactive. It isn't in response to anything in particular but rather a way to get what you want without having to appear aggressive or take responsibility.
My example of dragging my feet so that FirmhandKY goes to visit his mother without me would be reactive. He is the initiator in that he's asked me to do something that I do not want to do. My behavior is in response to that request.
quote:
ORIGINAL: farieanne
IMHO these examples are more topping from the bottom...
I try to avoid the whole debate about "topping from the bottom". In my opinion, it's often an excuse to be judgmental about behavior based not on the situation or on an individual's motivation, but rather on their orientation. That isn't to say that topping from the bottom doesn't happen, but that it is too often thrown out there for the purpose of cutting a submissive to the quick without any real understanding or analysis.
quote:
ORIGINAL: farieanne
To me Passive-aggressive behavior is more like:
A friend ask you to baby sits and you don't really want to. You give some reasons you can't but end up doing it anyway. You give very strict things you will and will not do, times and what not. The friend is late so you become short with the kids. Making them sit and not play, putting some thing on TV you know will bore them, not giving a snack to them. When the friend comes to pick them up they apologize and you 'SAY' it's ok, maybe make a sarcastic comment and you might be short, almost rude.
you tell your Dom/me you have a mild headache and have had it all day. your Dom/me tells you to take a pain reliever but you don't like taking meds. instead of calmly telling them how you feel you get mad, pout, and maybe even act out about other issues.
you and your Dom/me come home late from a evening out and you are both tired. Yyou take a shower and your Dom/me is finished first. They get ready for bed and go to bed. They leave their shoes out and dirty clothes on the bed, stuff on the counter that needs to be put away and the house is still open. your annoyed but instead of asking for help you stomp around the house loudly performing the chores so that your Dom/me can not sleep, if they ask if some thing is wrong or if you need help you say no and maybe make a smart comment, doing other things that could really wait hoping your Dom/me will notice and feel bad.
To me these are passive-aggressive behaviors. not really trying to get your way or get some thing you want...
I agree that some of the examples you have given sound to me like someone acting out in a passive-aggressive manner, but I disagree with your assessment that they are not really trying to get their way or something they want.
Passive-aggressive behavior can be used to punish after the fact. The aggressor may not be trying to change the thing that actually provoked the behavior, as in your example of the individual being asked to babysit. They cannot change that they have already babysat and they cannot change that their friend was late. What their behavior does accomplish is convey their unhappiness with the situation and work to ensure they aren't asked to babysit again. The aggressor does get what they want... to make the friend aware that they are unhappy and decrease the likelihood that they will be asked again.
The individual in your second example with the headache sounds as if they are displaying the resentment fueled behavior described by robertolapiedra. I don't see that there's anything passive about displaying anger or acting out. I wouldn't consider their behavior passive-aggressive so much as I would consider it misplaced aggression... though it might be passive-aggressive if their purpose (what they want) is to simply make their partner as miserable as he or she would seem to be. Then again, it sounds as if they just have some serious problems going on.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sublimelysensual
...The OP's examples look more like manipulation/disobedience through deceit, imho.
I don't think anyone here has defended passive aggressive behavior or insinuated that it isn't deceitful. I believe it's fairly clear that it can be manipulative and disobedient. However, I think that it can also be simply an innocent behavior... perhaps not a desired or preferred method for expressing desires and working toward goals, but not necessarily malevolent.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sublimelysensual
I would also disagree with the procrastination thing, mainly because probably 90% of the time I procrastinate, it's about something that only affects me if it doesn't get done on time, not anyone else. I also recently discovered that procrastination is often directly related to perfectionism (something I'm guilty of and trying to cure, or at least tone down)...
I don't think procrastination has to affect anyone other than yourself. What needs to be done, should be done, or wants to be done also doesn't have to be directed by anyone else, though it might be indirectly inspired.
I know that I should eat more nutritious food and avoid simple carbohydrates. There isn't anyone who has told me that I must eat this way or made any request for me to do so. It's something that I want to do for myself as I want to be healthy so I tell myself that I will start eating a proper diet.
However, I also happen to love a lot of foods that are simple carbohydrates. Planning a menu without those foods is difficult and unappealing to me. I don't want to give them up. I know what I need to do, but I procrastinate in actually starting. I find reasons to delay... there's a party tomorrow at work where my favorite "bad" food will be featured and I don't want to be unsociable by declining participation... Monday will be a better day than today to start because it's a "fresh week"... I've had a bad day at work today and I deserve to treat myself to my favorite comfort food... the list could go on.
My point is that I'm still displaying passive aggressive behavior. I'm being disobedient in not doing what I've charged myself with doing, but I'm maintaining my "innocence" because I insist that I will start.. I'm deceiving myself because I'm allowing myself to be convinced that all those excuses are legitimate reasons not to start. It might be in conflict with the part of me that wants to be healthy, but that part of me that doesn't want to change is actually getting its way.
And yes, procrastination is often directly related to perfectionism. But to be perfect is a desire, a want, and a goal that you've imposed upon yourself. Procrastination is a passive-aggressive behavior that can be used to avoid trying to achieve that goal because a part of you wants to avoid possible failure and the confrontation of considering that the goal of perfection may be unrealistic and unachievable. You can continue to deceive yourself by believing you will reach that goal without ever actually making an attempt.
< Message edited by losttreasure -- 7/15/2007 12:15:26 PM >
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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 
) so I complain that I don't know how and play dumb so that FirmhandKY finally says that he'll do it for me. 
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