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Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/13/2007 9:58:00 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline 		I hear this term bandied about quite often... have been accused of it, myself, on occasion... but it's rarely made much sense to me in the manner it is used.

It seems to me to be a fairly straight-forward, common-sense kind of term... passive-aggressive... passively aggressive... being aggressive by being passive.

Passive - Accepting or submitting without objection or resistance; submissive.

Aggressive - Having or showing determination and energetic pursuit of your ends.

I understand passive-aggressive behavior to be when someone appears to comply or act appropriately, but actually behaves negatively and passively resists.

Some examples of what I consider passive-aggressive behavior are:

I don't want update my computer (which I'm doing right now ) so I complain that I don't know how and play dumb so that FirmhandKY finally says that he'll do it for me.

I don't want to go visit FirmhandKY's mother so I drag my feet in getting ready and find other things that need to be done to the point where FirmhandKY gets exasperated and says he's going without me.

I don't want to get up every morning to make FirmhandKY's coffee so I make a point of making it badly so that FirmhandKY will tell me not to make it for him.

FirmhandKY has done something to anger me and although I tell him it's fine, I proceed to "punish" him by not answering his phone calls and I telling him I'm busy the next time he wants to spend time with me.

FirmhandKY wants me to take a class to learn to speak German.  I'm not too keen on the idea so I keep "forgetting" to enroll until it's too late.

Please note that the above are completely made-up examples.  I'd like to say that I don't engage in passive-aggressive behavior at all, but I do think people generally do.  It seems to me that procrastination is probably the most often used form of passive-aggressive behavior and I don't think I've met a single soul who doesn't procrastinate now and again.

What brought this thread about was a couple of comments on the Manipulation thread.  I do consider passive-aggressive behavior to be manipulative, but I don't think all manipulative behavior is passive-aggressive.  At any rate, it brought to mind my thoughts on just what passive-aggressive means and I thought I'd throw it out here to see if perhaps I was missing something.
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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/13/2007 10:04:01 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		It was in the damned DSM III-R, but they moved it to an appendix in DSM IV, because it became obvious that passive-aggressive behavior isn't a disorder.  Anyway, there's a lot to read about it, but your examples are as fine as any.

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/13/2007 11:04:57 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Status: offline 		Sounds good to me Lost, not sure what else to say.

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 3:42:12 AM   
yrstocollar


Posts: 95
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Status: offline 		You've hit the nail on the head with all your examples as far as I'm concerned... plus I agree that passive-aggressive behaviour can be manipulative but not all manipulative behaviour is passive-aggressive.

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 5:02:03 AM   
Littlepita


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Status: offline 		My Joe and I had very passive-aggressive marriages before we got divorced and together with each other. Rule number one for us both is that passive-aggressive behavior is not to be tolerated. If one of us sees the other doing it we immediately call attention to it and solve whatever problem is going on.

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 5:22:35 AM   
Elorin


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From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Passive aggressive behavior can also be refusing to communicate your desires and then blaming someone else for not meeting those desires.


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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 7:57:07 AM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
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Status: offline 		Fast reply:

lol... Okay, I don't feel so bad now.  It appears that I do have a handle on what passive-aggressive behavior is.  Next time I'm wrongly accused of it, I'll feel a bit more confident in standing up for myself. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin

Passive aggressive behavior can also be refusing to communicate your desires and then blaming someone else for not meeting those desires.



Another great example and one I didn't think of.

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 8:22:15 AM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I frequently see what I think of as a perhaps more aggressive style of passive-aggression: Making 'neutral' statements that imply a desire for something that someone else should meet. For instance 'It's hot in here,' meaning 'you should go open the window.' The person makes a demand on someone without taking any responsibility for doing so, so they don't have to give credit or show appreciation, and can blame the other person if it doesn't work out well (the wind blows papers off the desk- 'why did you open the window, dumbass?').

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 8:32:56 AM   
meticulousgirl


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Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline 		I can definitly relate, i dont think i'm passive aggressive but i've been around people who are, and it's not really a fun friendship or relationship when that crap is in the way.

~meticulous~

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 2:57:29 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
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Status: offline 		Hello losttreasure. Passive-aggressive behavior is "resent" motivated.

A passive-aggressive person is a "resentful" person. Resent can stem from past and present experiences. As the brain has a tendency to associate with past experiences, if these were negative, you may get a passive-aggressive response to the most innocent of "present" situations.

If you want to help a "passive-aggressive" (it is not a personality "disorder"), you must make it clear to him/her what is related to the present and, was is related to the past. Accept the resentment for what is going on in the present, and refuse "unresolved" past resentments that "amplify" present resentment.

Just as many people with a sunny disposition tend to collect pleasurable "memories", passive-aggressive type people tend to collect "unpleasant memories", and relive these constantly at the emotional level (with or without the "imagery"). The word says so: "resent", to "re-feel".

I find people using passive-aggressive "tactics" to punish or get what they want are not usually very "happy" with the results. They have this attitude: "If I am not happy, I will do my best to show you and see to it that you wont be "happy" also!"

They simply have a hard time with acceptance issues. They rely on the "frustration  bank" they have in their emotional minds, to borrow from in order to amplify their own reactions. These amplified "controlled" reactions are a way of controlling you. All this negative energy is a control issue, and should be dealt with as such.

I find doms tend to use "intentional ignorance" of the behavior. As this has the effect of not feeding the fire in the short term, it does nothing in the happy sub department.  Besides, the sub does this behavior with everybody, and that is not conductive to a change in behavior.

If the sub recognizes that passive-aggressiveness  is  detrimental  to his/her happiness, he/she may be trained to a more positive acceptance of day to day obligations.

Just musing. RL.

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 3:00:54 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		Ummm...often, but not always.  "Passive-aggressive" refers to behavior, not motivation.  Passive-aggressive behavior can have the same motivations as any other kind of aggressive behavior, and those are varied.  The term was coined, actually, in WW II to refer to soldiers who displayed "a mixture of passive resistance and grumbling compliance."

I agree that passive-aggressive behavior is very often motivated by resentment, but there could be many other root causes as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra

Hello losttreasure. Passive-aggressive behavior is "resent" motivated.

A passive-aggressive person is a "resentful" person. Resent can stem from past and present experiences. As the brain has a tendency to associate with past experiences, if these were negative, you may get a passive-aggressive response to the most innocent of "present" situations.

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 3:12:24 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline 		Hello Lordandmaster. In motivation you have two instances, disposition and "pre-disposition".

One is present oriented, reactive to what is going on now. The other is past-present oriented, reacting to what has "always been going on", with the present being proof or confirmation-justification of latent negative feelings. It is resent, or accumulation of resents which forms habitual "pre-disposition" to respond in a "resentful" way to contradiction or displeasure.

Passive-aggressiveness is a "form" of resentment, resentment just the same.RL.

Edit: Forgot last line.

< Message edited by robertolapiedra -- 7/14/2007 3:16:59 PM >

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 3:21:15 PM   
ELUSIVE1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra

Hello Lordandmaster. In motivation you have two instances, disposition and "pre-disposition".

One is present oriented, reactive to what is going on now. The other is past-present oriented, reacting to what has "always been going on", with the present being proof or confirmation-justification of latent negative feelings. It is resent, or accumulation of resents which forms habitual "pre-disposition" to respond in a "resentful" way to contradiction or displeasure.

Passive-aggressiveness is a form of resentment, resentment just the same.RL.

Edit: Forgot last line.

I have to agree with LordandMaster--not all passive-aggressive behavior is based from resent...my Gramma was queen of passive/aggressive...had it to an artform, because she was a non-confrontational person--

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 4:06:46 PM   
robertolapiedra


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Joined: 5/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

quote:

ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra

Hello Lordandmaster. In motivation you have two instances, disposition and "pre-disposition".

One is present oriented, reactive to what is going on now. The other is past-present oriented, reacting to what has "always been going on", with the present being proof or confirmation-justification of latent negative feelings. It is resent, or accumulation of resents which forms habitual "pre-disposition" to respond in a "resentful" way to contradiction or displeasure.

Passive-aggressiveness is a form of resentment, resentment just the same.RL.

Edit: Forgot last line.

I have to agree with LordandMaster--not all passive-aggressive behavior is based from resent...my Gramma was queen of passive/aggressive...had it to an artform, because she was a non-confrontational person--


Hello ELUSIVE1. Passive-aggression is confrontational because it elicits reaction. That is the whole point of aggression, be it passive or "active". Most non-confrontational people put up an "happy front", not a "confrontational" one that is "aggressive" from the point of view of the one being "passively" aggressed.

The non-confrontational person who puts up a positive appearance usually will not receive confrontation-response.  The "non-confrontational" person who puts up non-verbal or other subtle behavior that elicits attention to ones displeasure, is offering a "confronting" response in order to obtain what? I say it is just a form of baiting while preserving an "appearance" of false decorum. It is a nice easy way for a "victim" to remain the "victim" in the situation. It is still a resent motivated behavior, be it passive or not. RL

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 4:27:49 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

I have to agree with LordandMaster--not all passive-aggressive behavior is based from resent...my Gramma was queen of passive/aggressive...had it to an artform, because she was a non-confrontational person--


I agree with LaM, as well.  While resentment might be a motivation for some passive-aggressive behavior, I don't see it always being the case.  I know that often when I catch myself being passive-aggressive it has more to do with getting my own way without having to appear overtly aggressive.  That, or I'm not wanting to fuel a confrontational fire but still get my point across. 

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 4:35:10 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline 		Hello losttreasure. Do you have an example to share? RL.

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 5:26:02 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		By that argument, ALL behavior is motivated by resentment.  And that's clearly not the case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra

Hello Lordandmaster. In motivation you have two instances, disposition and "pre-disposition".

One is present oriented, reactive to what is going on now. The other is past-present oriented, reacting to what has "always been going on", with the present being proof or confirmation-justification of latent negative feelings. It is resent, or accumulation of resents which forms habitual "pre-disposition" to respond in a "resentful" way to contradiction or displeasure.

Passive-aggressiveness is a "form" of resentment, resentment just the same.RL.

Edit: Forgot last line.

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 5:40:09 PM   
farieanne


Posts: 65
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From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

{sniped}
Passive - Accepting or submitting without objection or resistance; submissive.

Aggressive - Having or showing determination and energetic pursuit of your ends.

{snipped}
Some examples of what I consider passive-aggressive behavior are:

I don't want update my computer (which I'm doing right now ) so I complain that I don't know how and play dumb so that FirmhandKY finally says that he'll do it for me.

I don't want to go visit FirmhandKY's mother so I drag my feet in getting ready and find other things that need to be done to the point where FirmhandKY gets exasperated and says he's going without me.

I don't want to get up every morning to make FirmhandKY's coffee so I make a point of making it badly so that FirmhandKY will tell me not to make it for him.

FirmhandKY has done something to anger me and although I tell him it's fine, I proceed to "punish" him by not answering his phone calls and I telling him I'm busy the next time he wants to spend time with me.

FirmhandKY wants me to take a class to learn to speak German. I'm not too keen on the idea so I keep "forgetting" to enroll until it's too late.
{snipped}


IMHO these examples are more topping from the bottom. Trying to get something your way instead of you Dom/mes way. Not really throwing a temper tantrum but through manipulation. To me Passive-aggressive behavior is more like:
 
A friend ask you to baby sits and you don't really want to. You give some reasons you can't but end up doing it anyway. You give very strict things you will and will not do, times and what not. The friend is late so you become short with the kids. Making them sit and not play, putting some thing on TV you know will bore them, not giving a snack to them. When the friend comes to pick them up they apologize and you 'SAY' it's ok, maybe make a sarcastic comment and you might be short, almost rude.
 
you tell your Dom/me you have a mild headache and have had it all day. your Dom/me tells you to take a pain reliever but you don't like taking meds. instead of calmly telling them how you feel you get mad, pout, and maybe even act out about other issues.
 
you and your Dom/me come home late from a evening out and you are both tired. Yyou take a shower and your Dom/me is finished first. They get ready for bed and go to bed. They leave their shoes out and dirty clothes on the bed, stuff on the counter that needs to be put away and the house is still open. your annoyed but instead of asking for help you stomp around the house loudly performing the chores so that your Dom/me can not sleep, if they ask if some thing is wrong or if you need help you say no and maybe make a smart comment, doing other things that could really wait hoping your Dom/me will notice and feel bad.
 
To me these are passive-aggressive behaviors. not really trying to get your way or get some thing you want or breaking a rule. Doing as you are told or are supposed to but not expressing how you feel and trying to make sure whom ever know your not happy. Sarcastic comments fall into this category. of course this is only my opinion. i have been watching this post and debating rather to post or not and i even discussed this with my Master and a couple sub friends of mine. What do you all think?

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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 6:18:42 PM   
robertolapiedra


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quote:

By that argument, ALL behavior is motivated by resentment. And that's clearly not the case.


Hello again.

-Quote: " By that argument, ALL behavior is motivated by resentment.  And that's clearly not the case. "

Nope, by that argument, not ALL behavior is motivated by resentment ( if you think "that's clearly not the case", could you explain why? Can you give an example of what you mean?)

Passive-aggressiveness is "one" behavior, and past and present resentments combine to motivate the response of a person who disagrees with a situation, by expressing said disagreement in an "indirect" perceptible way. It is a way to express anger, disappointment, outrage, resistance, injustice, etc and has a variable punishing  or attention getting effect. What else am I missing besides the "resentment" class of motives?

If someone has an "example" of a different motivation for this behavior, I would be happy to hear it. RL.





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RE: Passive-Aggressive Behavior... - 7/14/2007 7:10:25 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I want an orgasm.  I bitch to my partner that he's not attentive enough to me in bed.  He gives me an orgasm.

No resentment there.

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