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RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/5/2007 8:23:01 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sadomasokisti
Are subs or bottoms more often mentally stronger than dominants?

No more than men are mentally stronger than women.

quote:

Often I see insecure dominants who try to hide their insecurity by constantly showing off their powers over subs.  Even in gatherings such as munches and even over other subs than their own.

I see this about as frequently as I see submissives who come to the lifestyle out of a desire to avoid responsibility and have someone else take care of them because they can't care for themselves.

quote:

This insecurity trait seems to be much less frequent in subs in the scene.

Give yourself time and the law of averages practically guarantees you'll run into the insecure traits of subs about equally as time passes. Perhaps you notice what you perceive as insecurity in dom/mes more because the behavior is more pronounced (peacockish) than that of the insecure subs.

The kind of mental strength it takes to let go of control, trust, and let someone else drive (imagine being at the wheel of a car with a blindfold on and letting someone in the passenger seat tell you when to turn!) is different than the kind it takes to take control of another, including taking on the worries and fears that you will make the wrong decision and totally screw up what you have control of (OMG imagine being that passenger!!!), but they are both very definitely strengths.

~E

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RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/6/2007 12:02:23 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Very silly question to have to ask, for deference from more blunt terms. They come at both extremes, should one consider "strength" in some oddly sterotypical manner. Still, I'd argue that "strength" itself is a misgnomer. Define it, if you will, though I assure you, your definition will be blind.

(in reply to sadomasokisti)
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RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/6/2007 4:25:26 AM   
sadomasokisti


Posts: 221
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Iceland
Status: offline 		Thanks all for the replies :)

If anything, I would not be surpriced if there are more weak subs than doms in life in general.  While some (weak) dominats seek strenght or acutally more security though BDSM we don't see as many weak subs in the scene (then I mean as many as are in life -proportion wise).
Because it takes certain amount of strength to put you in the situation where you give someone control over you, I don't belive there are as many weak subs that actively seak the BDSM scene, more that they are drawn in by their parner or friend. 
This makes in my view a little skewed distribution where you have higher proportion of strong subs than of strong dominants in the scene.

SM

ps. then as a switch I guess it makes me double strong.

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Pain is good. Extreme pain is extremely good

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RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/6/2007 4:43:15 AM   
MsPleasure


Posts: 215
Joined: 1/1/2007
Status: offline 		You are right.  From my short observation, IM chats and conversations.   Probably the best Dom/Dommes were once subs. 

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RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/6/2007 7:10:57 AM   
jmslilbytch


Posts: 26
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline 		No they aren't. Depends on the individual.
What you a deeming as insecurities that you see in a D/M, may just be the alfa male "show" that you would see with animals.
We tend to label certain personality traits as being "insecure", when in fact they are just who that person is and has nothing to do with insecurity. It usually takes a while of knowing someone to find out what their insecurities are, unless it is so blantantly obvious or they tell you.
Labels and yet more labels. I have to agree with CuriousLord, silly question to have to ask.

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RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/6/2007 9:00:05 AM   
sadomasokisti


Posts: 221
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Iceland
Status: offline 		Well I don't think it's a silly question.

We see on the boards again and again complaints about wannabe dom's, who more often than not are persons trying to boost their insecurities by playing the dominant role. 

I didn't put any gender label (at least not my intention to do so) because I have noticed this by all genders so the alpha-male pounding (which in my view is nothing but a sign of insecurity) does not apply.   And talking about labels, you are not necessary not any more dominant though you call your self dominant and gets a big DOM tattoo on your for head.

MJSunshine worded it extremely well where "ones...who wear pink just cuz they can but don't flaunt the fact that they are wearing pink...they just do".

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Pain is good. Extreme pain is extremely good

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RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/6/2007 2:07:15 PM   
MsPleasure


Posts: 215
Joined: 1/1/2007
Status: offline 		No question is silly if you are interested in feedback.   And believe me there is always somebody around to be on both sides of any question....so get over yourself.   She just had enough guts to put it out there.  You have a right to your opinion and Im sticking to mine.

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RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/6/2007 4:57:57 PM   
SirGordonslil


Posts: 70
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline 		subs can peacock just as much as Dom/mme/Tops...
and then call it subspace LOL...
*ducks*
 
~~lil~~
 
strength isnt measured in how much you peacock anyways lol my grandma always said: "its the quiet ones you have to watch"

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"In Him i breathe, move, and have my being"

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RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/6/2007 6:35:34 PM   
jmslilbytch


Posts: 26
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline 		I've stated in other posts, everybody has a right to their opinion, doesn't make me right, or you. By the same either one wrong.
My statement had nothing to do with anyone's opinions in reply to the question asked. Instead it had to do with the question.
Everyone has different strengths and weakness. I haven't known many people that didn't have some insecurities either.
IMO only, it would be like asking if women handle pain better then men. That would be a silly question to me too. 

(in reply to MsPleasure)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/6/2007 7:53:13 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPleasure

No question is silly if you are interested in feedback.


Contrary to what your gradeschool teacher may've told you to encourage timid students to attempting to articulate their difficulties, there are indeed silly questions. Among them, "Why can't I pee on the desk?"

Now, while one might argue that it is better for such a student to ask such a question, should it be in earnest so that this student does not, in fact, wet his desk- it is still a silly question.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPleasure

And believe me there is always somebody around to be on both sides of any question....so get over yourself.


Yes. I'm sure there are people who are convinced their stance is the end-all of mental superiority. How arrogant of me to not take such obviously logical arguments into consideration.

Still, on a positive note, it seems, for the most part, posters have had level heads and not made such a generalization.

(in reply to MsPleasure)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/7/2007 2:49:20 AM   
MsPleasure


Posts: 215
Joined: 1/1/2007
Status: offline 		Just because its a silly question to you.....that means she should not ask?   Thats silly.  

And by the way Women handle pain waaaaay better than men.  I'm sticking to that opinion too.

< Message edited by MsPleasure -- 7/7/2007 2:52:29 AM >

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RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/7/2007 3:47:16 AM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Surely part of what we are here for is to get rid of the generalisations and assumptions that get in the way of  people forming  good relationships.
It says on my profile that I am looking for a strong male sub.
What I mean by 'strong' may be very different from what any particular submissive male thinks is strong. But we have to use words to communicate and my profile is long enough as it is without me having to give definitions of every word I use.
The only way to form a relationship is to communicate well with the person who you are trying to form a relationship with and it takes time. Yes it's interesting to know what people think in general about other people interested in our 'lifestyle' but does it really matter? I think most people are scared shitless of being associated with 'the lifestyle' and lets face it if you can't be who you are in the vanilla world then your not exactly strong are you? And I don't mean with strangers who haven't any real power to do you any harm. I mean with your relatives and friends and work colleagues. There are a few people including me who are open about their sexuality. In my opinion we are the strong ones. Get to know who you are and then proclaim it to the world. That's my advice to everyone. Now I don't really know in detail who I am yet but I know I'm BDSM. and I know I'm a dominant woman. I also think that there are depths to me that I haven't even begun to explore because I need the right partner to explore with. If I don't find him I will never really know.
So we can generalise to our hearts content but it will not change anything. Whereas people being strong in their convictions about what is right for them and their significant other/s just very well might.

(in reply to MsPleasure)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/7/2007 5:06:57 AM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		I think My Pet is 'stronger' than I am in many regards.  She has to abide by the rules I set forth, and do what I say.  It's easy to say "Play with yourself, now."  It's harder to do so when you're in the parking lot of the grocery store.  Personally, I remember every rule I give her.  If I forget a rule, she MIGHT get away without a punishment.  If she forgets a rule, she will be punished.  I am not 'above' our rules, but what would she say? She's been trained to not answer questions with questions.  I have the freedom to do so if I please. 

On the flip side, I am stronger in many regards.  I need to lead her, protect her, provide for her, care for her.  I need to keep my head cool and level in times of extreme stress.  I am her rock.  When the world turns crazy she needs to know there is a sanctuary under my wing.  I am her teacher, and as such need to be skilled and confident to teach her.  And where I need to be strongest... I Love My Pet.  It means I need to fight with my desire to see her giddy so she can be My Pet.  I act as Her Master so that she has the opportunity to serve me.  It's very hard for me lay down the law sometimes.  An example... I love and hate tucking her in.  It's very hard for me to know she won't see me for a bit, but the act carries so much love.  I don't WANT to leave her.  Sometimes I will tell her "Go to sleep.  Don't fuss with me on this." Which tears me up inside, but it gives her the opportunity to simply say "Yes, Master." and close her eyes.  I know she feels the same way, she never wants to leave my arms or get off the phone.  In an effort to serve me, she stiffles her pain and does as ordered.

In short: We are both strong, but I feel she has more weight to pull.

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... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

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RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/7/2007 5:09:43 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Masternslave07

Subs bottoms are probably stronger.


LOL, I was thinking along the same lines.....if the cane breaks, the bottom is stronger

< Message edited by catize -- 7/7/2007 5:10:30 AM >

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"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/7/2007 6:16:16 AM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Thankyou HeavensKeeper. You have just provided me with what I need.
Quite simply the knowledge that at least one man in the lifestyle understands his subs needs. And is prepared to take the real responsibility of the relationship.

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/7/2007 7:42:28 AM   
MsPleasure


Posts: 215
Joined: 1/1/2007
Status: offline 		You still don't get it.  We have many, many inventions, clubs, ideas because of people asking out of the ordinary questions.   In my job I ALLWAYS encourage questions no matter how silly "someone else" thinks it is. 

Why can't I pee in your mouth?  Guess what people do... and like it.   Why can't I tie you up and insert my fist in your ass?  Guess what people do...and like it. 

Thank goodness for the Wright brothers and others that chose to invent flight.  Im sure people thought they were silly too. 

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/7/2007 7:50:28 AM   
MsPleasure


Posts: 215
Joined: 1/1/2007
Status: offline 		Exactly...

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/7/2007 8:21:25 AM   
PsyVamp


Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPleasure

No question is silly if you are interested in feedback.


Contrary to what your gradeschool teacher may've told you to encourage timid students to attempting to articulate their difficulties, there are indeed silly questions. Among them, "Why can't I pee on the desk?"

Now, while one might argue that it is better for such a student to ask such a question, should it be in earnest so that this student does not, in fact, wet his desk- it is still a silly question.



I am going to nit pick this a little, although I can follow your logic.  A 5,6,7 year old child asking why they cannot pee on their desk may seem a silly question to you but to the child, it is serious.  You have to remember the developmental level of the person asking the question.
Yes, the OP question may seem silly to you, but I would hazard a guess to say that sadomasokisti was thinking about it for a while before posting.  Posting brings (hopefully) many different responses.  These responses help to either clarify an idea or challenge it to the point of a new view on the subject.  Either way, it is human nature to question and to query our fellow group members, otherwise, why bother having these forums?

And if you are really squicked by what you consider silly questions, don't put yourself in a position to hear them (by that I only mean something like "don't be an elementary school teacher")

Oh, and to the OP:  I have plenty of sub and dom friends, everyone seems insecure in their own way to some degree or another.  I think it takes a strong person to really submit (and not just come up with a "do - me" list) but in the same vein it takes a strong person to dominate. 
Then again, my definition of dominate can be different than other's.  I don't think that just because a person swings a flogger, they are a D type.  My pet (switch) says that he isn't the one domming because he is the one in cuffs, my response is that cuffing someone doesn't make you a dom, it makes you the top for the moment IF the other person isn't the one giving directions. 
IMO, dominant is a trait, an attitude, the person taking charge of the situation as a whole; the leader.  And it is more mental than physical.

Probably didnt help, but figured I throw my hat into the ring anyway.

~Psy



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Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive. .
Could a blue screen of death constitute being defenestrated?
~Owner of wolf~ (one of them, anyway)

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RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/7/2007 11:01:33 AM   
queencaliph


Posts: 131
Joined: 6/4/2007
Status: offline 		I am a dominant woman.  People often call me "strong" and I probably am to some degree.  But I am in absolute awe of the strength of submissives.  To be able to surrnender and yield yourself to another person requires so much strength.  Of couse its just my opionion but I think submissives are some pretty amazing people. 

Don't tell anyone I said that or I might get kicked out of the "Twu Domme's Club"

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"awwww hell......the Queen!"

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Are subs/bottoms stronger? - 7/7/2007 4:56:14 PM   
SirGordonslil


Posts: 70
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline 		i asked heaps of silly questions when growing in my submission.. even to my Master... 
i think better asked than not regardless of how small a question, how important a question or how anyone will respond to a question..
if you worry what people will say then how will you learn by not asking..
knowledge is power, and it seems people think just cause they know the answer and its silly for one to ask they can enforce their power of observation on the askee..  lol
i was always told, the silliest question or dumbest question is not asking at all.
 
*humbly rolls on floor laughing at the "powerful all seeing eyes in collarme"*
 
so spank me LOL
 
~~lil~~

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"In Him i breathe, move, and have my being"

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Profile   Post #: 40
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