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Craftsman -> RE: Did the shoppers work at an LA hospital?? (7/4/2007 4:02:10 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: uwinceismile
perhaps the five shoppers will end up in a cell like the end of the jerry sienfeld show...for not helping .
in a moment of seriousness (rare for me) ,,how tragic that a woman had to die, because people were either too afraid, or just didnt give a damn?
and the one who took the pic??? needs to have thier ass whipped but good :(
A delay of any minutes in calling 911 is unforgivable, especially when there is a clerk in the store with a phone at the register.
It is tragic that this woman died. I'm not all that sure it is because people were afraid, or didn't give a damn. Did they know what to do? Maybe they felt helpless and for that reason ignored the situation. This is, after all, a society in which we depend on the police for public safety, fire department for putting out fires and ambulance transportation, and the Government in many forms taking care of us from cradle to grave so we don't have to take responsibility for our own safety and well being.
In California, as in some other places, the five might have been sued for causing damage in attempting to render aid. This is an area of the law where I think we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. A burglar can sue and collect from a home-owner after breaking and entering if bitten by a dog or even cut by the glass window broken to gain entry.
In the stabbing case, the Good Samaritan laws do apply. In Basic and Advanced First Aid, EMT, Paramedic, and Mobile Intensive Care Nurse training, it is stressed that the Good Sam laws protect you as long as you are rendering aid within the scope of your training and practice. Note that the Good Sam laws do not protect you from being sued. They only serve as a protection when you can prove in a court of law that what you did was within your scope of training.
We were also trained that once you start treatment, you cannot stop treatment except under some very specific conditions. If you stop before those conditions are met, you can be charged with patient/victim abandonment. If the person dies, you can be charged in causing or permitting death. Much easier to not get involved.
In the case of a stabbing, would you know whether to remove the knife or leave it in? How would you bandage a wound? Do you know how to keep a lung from collapsing? Do you know the signs of collapse? What do you, as an untrained civilian, do that I as a trained professional might or might not? Could you justify that in a court of law?
Beginning to see that it might just be easier to step over the victim and avoid all that stress and risk? In California, if I'm in my Civvies, and I'm not displaying a Star of Life or any other sign or symbol of being medically trained, I do not have the duty or obligation to respond within my scope of practice. If I don't have to, then the untrained people don't have to either. And sometimes that's better. The first time you see someone with what was a minor injury or one that was not at the time life threatening brought in dead because some civillian 'helped' it will turn your guts inside out. Been there. Seen that. Barfed all over the utility sink in the ER.
Why commit the time? Because we do care. Why render help? What if it was us lying there? I for one do stop to help, and I once got fired from a nursing job because I was rendering aid at an accident and was late for work. That won't stop me, but the problems that helping can create for us can be rather daunting.
What's the solution? I think everyone needs to be trained in basic first aid and CPR with AED use. I don't agree it should be mandated, but everyone probably would benefit from having that training as part of high school health class or something similar.
To the OP: I worked in a couple of LA hospitals. In the Emergency Department. I know it happens. I know it is relatively rare. Otherwise, it wouldn't be sensational enough to attract the attention of the news mills.
Sorry for the rant. It is aimed at no one in here, or anyone in particular, but rather expresses my frustration with the way things are presented in society in general, and in the way we so often accept what we are spoon-fed by the media.
I do agree, uwince, the one who took the picture needs to be publically flogged, preferrably naked on the City Hall Whipping Post, especially if it was a good looking woman. :-)
C/
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