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Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/29/2007 6:08:27 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Chávez hints at nuclear future for Venezuela

President Hugo Chávez yesterday hinted that Venezuela could try to become a nuclear power, during a visit to Russia apparently timed to antagonise the White House.

Mr Chávez defended Iran's right to pursue a nuclear programme and said it might be a good idea if Venezuela eventually did the same thing. Speaking before an audience of communists and other elements hostile to America, Mr Chávez said: "Iran has a right to have a peaceful atomic energy industry, as it is a sovereign country.

"The Brazilian president has declared his atomic energy initiatives, and Brazil has a right to do that as well. Who knows, maybe Venezuela will ultimately follow suit." Mr Chávez said he wanted a "multi-polar world in which "real freedom" was possible as opposed to "American freedom", which he characterised as the right to "threaten other nations and destroy cities".

The Venezuelan leader is on a trip that also includes two other US antagonists, Belarus and Iran. His visit to Moscow comes hours before a meeting in the US between Vladimir Putin and George Bush. The two are holding informal talks on Sunday and Monday at the Bush family estate in

Kennebunkport, Maine, with deep divisions over the US's proposed missile shield in central Europe, the future of Kosovo and US concerns over Russia's resurgent authoritarianism under Mr Putin.

Kremlin officials yesterday said it was a coincidence that Mr Putin was holding talks with Mr Chávez tomorrow and Mr Bush on Sunday.

But the newspaper Vedomosti suggested the visits were designed to demonstrate Russia's independence. Others suggested it was Mr Chávez who was making the running. "The timing wasn't initiated by Russia," said Viktor Semyonov, an economist at Moscow's Institute of Latin American Studies. "It all comes from Chávez.

"It's more about money than politics; Chávez is supporting Russia's rapidly increasing economic presence in Venezuela."

During his three-day visit to Russia, Mr Chávez is expected to buy more military hardware, including as many as five submarines. He will also tour a helicopter factory and hold talks with Mr Putin tomorrow in Rostov-on-Don.

Last year Mr Chávez spent $3bn (£1.5bn) on Russian arms. But yesterday he said: "We don't want war. We want peace. There were rumours we came here to buy weapons. This is not the priority of my visit ... The priority is cultural interaction and the exchange of ideas."

But he also boasted of Venezuela's Russian Sukhoi jets: "When they appeared in the sky over Caracas during a parade on independence day two years ago, then we broke the fetters of dependence on the US."

In Belarus, Mr Chávez may also discuss a new air defence system, after saying this week that Venezuela's current system was insufficient. He will then go to Tehran for talks aimed at further deepening ties with Iran.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,,2114634,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12
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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/29/2007 7:04:13 AM   
LadyEllen


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Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I dont see how we can get away from fossil fuels unless everyone is allowed nuclear or we expect certain countries to have no electricity.... I know there are meant to be green methods of energy production, but making them available at the right price in sufficient quantity and such that power supply is maintained regardless of tides/winds/the sun doesnt seem to be too clear.

E

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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/29/2007 7:07:43 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
Mr Chávez said he wanted a "multi-polar world in which "real freedom" was possible as opposed to "American freedom", which he characterised as the right to "threaten other nations and destroy cities".


glances once again at the footer in my post....


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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/29/2007 1:43:18 PM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US?

Hopefully.

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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/29/2007 2:08:18 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US?

Hopefully.


LOL, If he ever heard a real gunshot he'd probably piss his pants.
It might last about 12 hours.
After the jets tear the shit out of the place there wouldn't be much left.

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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/29/2007 2:13:55 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US?

Hopefully.


LOL, If he ever heard a real gunshot he'd probably piss his pants.
It might last about 12 hours.
After the jets tear the shit out of the place there wouldn't be much left.


Yeah but who's manning the borders and putting a stop to foreign aid while you're taking your eye off the ball and sorting Chavez?

Popeye, fuck it, relax, have a beer, if they want to cross your border, well more people to brew your beer.


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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/29/2007 5:47:28 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
I dont see how we can get away from fossil fuels unless everyone is allowed nuclear


For LESS THAN what the US has pissed away in Iraq, we could have designed, launched, and operated a constellation of solar power satellites and the attendant ground stations. ( You plug a ground station into the Grid, wherever you want, and just stop wasting coal, oil, or natgas, and generating by-products, pollution, heat, etc...

Buy a Prius, which just plugs into the grid, and we are off fossil fuels FOR THE REST OF HUMANITY'S EXISTENCE.

Mobil can't make all that much money off the process, or if they can, they really feel a need to maximize the opportunity they have.

I call it a Crime Against Humanity, and would call for any corporation doing such things to be dissolved by the courts.

quote:


or we expect certain countries to have no electricity....


We drop off a pair of 40TEU boxes, and point a satellite at them. Viola. Friends of the United States get free electricity.

Fucking shortsighted dumbasses.



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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/29/2007 5:50:13 PM   
selfbnd411


Posts: 598
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Status: offline 		Red Dawn was a documentary, wasn't it? 

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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/29/2007 5:55:22 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		any soveriegn country that disagrees with our policy obviously wants war, or alternatively don't give a fuck, they are kicking back at the worthlessness of George Bushes administration.  

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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/29/2007 6:41:45 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Chávez hints at nuclear future for Venezuela

President Hugo Chávez yesterday hinted that Venezuela could try to become a nuclear power, during a visit to Russia apparently timed to antagonise the White House.

Mr Chávez defended Iran's right to pursue a nuclear programme and said it might be a good idea if Venezuela eventually did the same thing. Speaking before an audience of communists and other elements hostile to America, Mr Chávez said: "Iran has a right to have a peaceful atomic energy industry, as it is a sovereign country.

"The Brazilian president has declared his atomic energy initiatives, and Brazil has a right to do that as well. Who knows, maybe Venezuela will ultimately follow suit." Mr Chávez said he wanted a "multi-polar world in which "real freedom" was possible as opposed to "American freedom", which he characterised as the right to "threaten other nations and destroy cities".

The Venezuelan leader is on a trip that also includes two other US antagonists, Belarus and Iran. His visit to Moscow comes hours before a meeting in the US between Vladimir Putin and George Bush. The two are holding informal talks on Sunday and Monday at the Bush family estate in

Kennebunkport, Maine, with deep divisions over the US's proposed missile shield in central Europe, the future of Kosovo and US concerns over Russia's resurgent authoritarianism under Mr Putin.

Kremlin officials yesterday said it was a coincidence that Mr Putin was holding talks with Mr Chávez tomorrow and Mr Bush on Sunday.

But the newspaper Vedomosti suggested the visits were designed to demonstrate Russia's independence. Others suggested it was Mr Chávez who was making the running. "The timing wasn't initiated by Russia," said Viktor Semyonov, an economist at Moscow's Institute of Latin American Studies. "It all comes from Chávez.

"It's more about money than politics; Chávez is supporting Russia's rapidly increasing economic presence in Venezuela."

During his three-day visit to Russia, Mr Chávez is expected to buy more military hardware, including as many as five submarines. He will also tour a helicopter factory and hold talks with Mr Putin tomorrow in Rostov-on-Don.

Last year Mr Chávez spent $3bn (£1.5bn) on Russian arms. But yesterday he said: "We don't want war. We want peace. There were rumours we came here to buy weapons. This is not the priority of my visit ... The priority is cultural interaction and the exchange of ideas."

But he also boasted of Venezuela's Russian Sukhoi jets: "When they appeared in the sky over Caracas during a parade on independence day two years ago, then we broke the fetters of dependence on the US."

In Belarus, Mr Chávez may also discuss a new air defence system, after saying this week that Venezuela's current system was insufficient. He will then go to Tehran for talks aimed at further deepening ties with Iran.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,,2114634,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12


(GAWWWWWD you spend an innordinant amount of effort to make a point!.  Of course Chavez wants to make war with us.  It's profitable.  Was there another point?)

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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/29/2007 7:28:48 PM   
Pandamonum


Posts: 78
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Status: offline 		I don't think Chavez wants war. Hell, China does not want war, yet they have spent 20 years preparing to go to war with us, because it is inevitable.  I do firmly believe that they are going to make every effort to tell the US to screw themselves.  Well deserved in South America, Latin America, the Carribean, Mexico, etc. we have always treated these countries as if they were our red headed step child. They are seeking independence and to cut all ties from the US.  There is not one person that can stand back and state that this is not a good move on their part. This cannot be denied.  Chavez has been willing to forgo selling to the US,  and I want to say this started last summer, to sell oil to China at a much higher cost then to sell to the US.  Now in the last few years you have a hard shift to the left down there. 
Too, Africa is following suit.  All empires must fall.  Sovereign nations have the right to defend their borders. Period. Further, since the Soviet Union busted, Russia is ready to get back in the game. Putin has no problem telling Bush where to put it. They are hungry to come back as a major contender.  Balance of power.

I have a book written by Tariq Ali, I am trying to do this from memory so I might be off, and it wasn't a complete shock, but it was right there in my face can't escape kind of thing.  People danced in the streets for Ossama, in many countries, and we must ask why this is. It boils down to had enough, and consequences be damned. I haven't decided if Chavez has the character like Castro or Che, time will tell.


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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/29/2007 8:59:07 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		I agree Farg we absolutly need a system of space based lasers, pumping enough energy to run a city.  That we can aim them at our friends(or enemies) is even better.  We don't really need an ozone layer anyway.

I doubt Chavez really wants a war, though playing the fear card is profitable for him and his crew.

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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/29/2007 9:32:29 PM   
subfever


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Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

any soveriegn country that disagrees with our policy obviously wants war...


Ahh... another thinking man. Refreshing.

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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 6/30/2007 11:46:07 PM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		Great.  Another dictator who hates America, and is swiming in oil, needs atomic energy for "peaceful purposes."  Just what the fuck we need.  Thank you Mister Bush for making power hungry paranoids even more paranoid.   

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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 7/1/2007 3:55:35 AM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Great.  Another dictator who hates America, and is swiming in oil, needs atomic energy for "peaceful purposes."  Just what the fuck we need.  Thank you Mister Bush for making power hungry paranoids even more paranoid.   


Chavez is no more of a dictator than Bush and at least he doesn't go round invading countries on a whim.

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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 7/1/2007 6:21:16 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		"Great.  Another dictator who hates America, and is swiming in oil, needs atomic energy for "peaceful purposes."  "

Zzactly. Ever notice how the US generally only bombs countries without any significant weapons ? Look how long they spent assuring that Iraq had no real weapons before going in.

We are the worst kind of bully. We never pick on someone our own size. I love my country but I am completely ashamed by the government, and there is no end in sight.

You look at any country that could be a real threat to the US and you'll see Bush kowtowing to it's leaders, or Clinton giving up military data. The thought of it makes me sick and I am glad not to be a taxpayer.

But eventually any bully meets his match, and this is sure to happen in this century. Perhaps even in our lifetime.

And if I were Hugo Chaves Frias I would want war with the the US. The US orchestrated a coup in Venezuela to overthrow the duly elected leader, that is an act of war. Why doesnt the CIA try that in China ? How about Israel ! Go ahead bully, pick on someone with some fucking teeth for a change.

They won't do it. That is the mark of a coward. The bullies in real life I've known at least have gotten into a real fight or two, rather than just beating up only those half their size. The US doesn't even do that.

The real bullies I've known also listen, they are not deaf. The US is deaf. The US does not hear all the people who they are bullying talking to one another and organizing a takedown. The US is also blind to the fact that we are the most hated and feared nation on the planet, even in countries occupied by other countries !

If you read the Protocols you see it clearly, the impetus for this, but if you know a bit of history, as much as it seems like it is going to work, it will not. They take and take until there is a revolution, and this time it might be worldwide.

The US coudn't hold Venezuela for more than 48 hours because of the will of the People. I'll tell you this, if someone came and overthrew the US government, I would have to think long and hard about fighting it, but they didn't hesitate in Venezuela.

T

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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 7/1/2007 6:32:58 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Great.  Another dictator who hates America, and is swiming in oil, needs atomic energy for "peaceful purposes."  "

Zzactly. Ever notice how the US generally only bombs countries without any significant weapons ? Look how long they spent assuring that Iraq had no real weapons before going in.

We are the worst kind of bully. We never pick on someone our own size. I love my country but I am completely ashamed by the government, and there is no end in sight.



I wouldn't necessarily agree with the view that they won't pick on someone their own size.

If push came to shove, and US economic interests were under serious threat, then anyone would be fair game.

Basically, the US government has one aim - create open economic systems friendly to US business interests. Whether or not these people are democratic or mass torturers is completely unimportant to them.

They've taken the baton up from European imperialists. US policy today has the same aim as British policy of 60-400 years ago. The technique is different, obviously, but the aim is the same - create favourable trading conditions for the US.

No one is going to stand in their way. The problem for the US government is that all empires come to an end because you can only buy and play off other nations against each other for so long before others join together to topple the top dog. China and Russia have a common aim, and they will foster support from other parts of the world with a grievance such as the Middle East.

Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? He'd have to be barking mad. I'm sure he wants the same as other parts of the world - an end to US influence/dominance over their region. You can't blame them. If the shoe was on the other foot, would you stand for it?



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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 7/1/2007 8:46:35 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		NG, you hit the nail on the head there. What if Venezuelan operatives came to the US and installed a President ? I would not fight for Bush.

Indeed what if the shoe was on the other foot ?

In time it may well be, empires have tumbled and fallen throughout time. When is our time ? It is not a matter of if, but when. We cannot keep this up.

We invaded Iraq because they were goinjg to switch to Euros, plain and simple. And with all the US currency in Iraqi banks it is clear that Saddam wanted to hurt the US economy. Chavez presents a similar problem.

If you got a country with an oil based economy, first of all you are basically selling out, you are selling what you dug out of the ground. You didn't maake it, but you want control of it. It is not advantageous for you to deal in dollars because that partly ties your currency to the dollar, which is as unstable as it's ever been. Competent leaders can see that.

With their Tbills etc., China knows she can topple our economy with the stroke of a pen. China doesn't do that right now. If I am not mistaken their currency is directly tied to the USD, for now. It is to their advantage, but what do you think will happen when it is not ? Do you think their leaders are traitors like ours ? Do you think they will let us drag them down ? I think not.

The US is the only country I can think of where the "leaders" care nothing for the country that pays their salary. They care nothing for those who elected them. It damnear seems everything they do hurts us.

Anyone care to speculate why ? What is it that makes a Man sell out his homeland, his breatheren, his constituents ?

No, it is not money, it is a lack of character.

Had a buddy wanted to go work fo Chavez. He wanted to get Venezuelan citizenship and live in the islands somewhere operatring a media outlet to counter the powers that be. A noble endevor in my view, but this guy was not smart enough. He was not smart enough for a few other things, he couldn't get himself out of 15 years for growing pot and a few other things. If he used one of my non-pork eating lawyers he would've been out in 6 months. He contacted Chaves but was trying to be a bit subversive.

I edited his letter and I came to the end, I call him up. "Dude, you gotta put you phone number or something in there", nope. Idiot. I told him "Idiot, you are contacting the President of a sovereign nation, if you want him to get back to you he will need to know who you are". Nope. I scrapped the idea and said "Fucking write it yourself then". I dumped the DOC files and that was it.

Here's a guy making a quarter million a year, BEAT the IRS hands down, and doesn't think if he wants to talk to the President of a country that he will have to give his name ? You gotta be kidding me.

This guy is better off gone. Maybe he can learn something in the joint. His idea was to be a Venezuelan, live in the islands like Costa Rica and have a big media outlet. I guess Chavez would have to write a check, if this asshole would TELL HIM HIS NAME. This level of ignorance is astounding.

Although the idea was good, you have to be upfront about it. I admit this guy knows more about how fucked up our government is, but this is ridiculous. He was going to give up US citizenship to do this. And that would be appropriate.

So he gets busted for selling a $200 bag of weed (a ½ ounce, he was growing some really good shit) and the customer, who was a disgruntled ex-employee told all, where the grow room was, everything. He was very stupid.

My sister and I joke about "How many Os in his name ?" which to us means he is stupid, but with how many Os ? Like stoopid, stooopid, stoooopid and so forth. This guy has no shortage of Os.

Neither does Bush. Nonetheless I would like to see their positions reversed. This sexaholic fucking idiot in prison right now, I wish I had one of those machines like on that episode of Star Trek that put a broad in Kirk's body. This guy, as dumb as he is, would make a much better President. But at least this guy respects the Constitution.

Anyway, perhaps one of you radical fucker like me in here could enlighten me, Where do the words "foreign aid" appear in the Constitution ? I men by cheque or by coup, by any means where ?

T

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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 7/1/2007 12:42:34 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		China and Russia want to destroy the US? I don't see that at all. Sure there are disagreements between China, Russia, and the US, but I just don't buy into the fear that one day there will be this massive world war between the US and China. That would be equally devastating to both nations and will never happen.
Contrary to popular belief, China does NOT hold the majority of US debt. The majority of the national debt is being held by Japan. China holds a pretty big chunk, but so do several other countries. The main reason China's economy is growing so fast is because of the US. Without the US, the economy will start to go into depression. Many US corporations are based in China. I don't agree with our policy with the Chinese, but that is what it is. And because our economies are so intertwined, there will never be a war with China.

And as for Chavez, most people around the world look at Hugo Chavez more as dictator and instigator than anything else. Sure his little UN speech attracted some applause by other 3rd world dictatorships, but he lost his bid to be on the Security Council because of that speech. Hugo is just a bit pissed because the CIA tried to assassinate him a few years ago....and too bad the attempt failed.
Hugo is a dictator. He has silenced free expression in his country including shutting down media outlets that broadcasted criticism against his government. He has declared himself the power to make laws by decree. He has said he plans to be President for life. He promotes fear of the outside world in order to strengthen his power and influence with his people. This guy has "dictator" written all over him.

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RE: Does Hugo Chavez want war with the US? - 7/1/2007 3:16:56 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Chavez is no more of a dictator than Bush and at least he doesn't go round invading countries on a whim.


I'm not going through this again.  This is the last time I am going to say this (I hope):  The man can rule by decree, that is the definition of a dictator.


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