Judgment (bit of a rant)

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Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 10:18:40 AM

sublimelysensual

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I have no idea whether this has been addressed before, but at any rate. It seems like in any number of threads on any board, there are those that cry foul that someone is making a judgment..on a person, on an activity, etc. People make judgments every day, about people they encounter, products they use, activities they engage in, and on and on. It's easy to call oneself non-judgmental, but realistically, everyone judges. I'm not saying it's always the right thing to do, or the right thing to voice, at any rate, but why has the era of political correctness suddenly made it a dirty little secret that people are judgmental? Every time you meet someone you make a judgment as to whether that person is someone you'd like to know better, whether that be as a friend, as a possible relationship partner, a possible Dr, and the list goes on. So I guess my question is, why has it become such a dirty word, and how could anyone claim to post an opinion without judgment playing into it? Even if a person posts that people shouldn't be judgmental..guess what? That's a judgment. Your opinion is essentially a personal judgment. Any thoughts? Or does anyone else get as irritated about this as I do?

-a

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 10:33:21 AM

cjenny

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Yup it can be frustrating. For me it is akin to the using of (gasp, dare I say it) labels. When you meet someone the brain tends to slot them using your judgement into a label. Of course that usually changes when you get to know someone better but IMO it is a natural function that yes, can be detrimental but more often useful.

At least my brain does that lol.

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 10:35:08 AM

philosophy

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.....seems to me you are missing how 'making a judgement' is a somewhat different semantic deal than someone 'being judgemental'. To be judgemental is used, linguistically, to describe someone who makes an inappropriate judgement on other people. We also say that someone may have 'good judgement' when they decide not to judge a situation, as well as when they make an accurate judgement.

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 10:37:27 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

.....seems to me you are missing how 'making a judgement' is a somewhat different semantic deal than someone 'being judgemental'. To be judgemental is used, linguistically, to describe someone who makes an inappropriate judgement on other people. We also say that someone may have 'good judgement' when they decide not to judge a situation, as well as when they make an accurate judgement.

That is the way I have always understood the term.

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 10:37:58 AM

LotusSong

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sublimelysensual

I have no idea whether this has been addressed before, but at any rate. It seems like in any number of threads on any board, there are those that cry foul that someone is making a judgment..on a person, on an activity, etc. People make judgments every day, about people they encounter, products they use, activities they engage in, and on and on. It's easy to call oneself non-judgmental, but realistically, everyone judges. I'm not saying it's always the right thing to do, or the right thing to voice, at any rate, but why has the era of political correctness suddenly made it a dirty little secret that people are judgmental? Every time you meet someone you make a judgment as to whether that person is someone you'd like to know better, whether that be as a friend, as a possible relationship partner, a possible Dr, and the list goes on. So I guess my question is, why has it become such a dirty word, and how could anyone claim to post an opinion without judgment playing into it? Even if a person posts that people shouldn't be judgmental..guess what? That's a judgment. Your opinion is essentially a personal judgment. Any thoughts? Or does anyone else get as irritated about this as I do?

-a

Just blow it off. The one's that cry "judgment" the most have their own insecurities motivating them.

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 10:43:29 AM

popeye1250

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If I'm not misstaken isn't being judgmental a survival instinct?
I doubt humankind would be here without it.
"Gee, that river is full of crocodiles, I should probably find another way around it."

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 10:55:28 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Yeah, people have tried to explain the difference between judging and judgemental- as though the former is ok and the latter is not. I've never really gotten that distinction. But I'm open to someone giving me another try at it.

And that's part of what good judgement making is all about :)

I think it goes back to most people placing way too much energy into what others think about them and taking things personally.

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 11:00:32 AM

Lordandmaster

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Essentially the difference is this:

Judging: "That's not right for me."
Being judgmental: "That's not right for anyone."

There are many more things that aren't right for me than aren't right for anyone. There are a few things I don't think are right for anyone (murder, you can fill in the blanks), but judgmental people think there are many more. Gay marriage is a good example. Fuck, gay marriage obviously isn't for me, but I won't go ahead and say that means it's wrong for all human beings.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Yeah, people have tried to explain the difference between judging and judgemental- as though the former is ok and the latter is not. I've never really gotten that distinction. But I'm open to someone giving me another try at it.

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 11:03:17 AM

Arpig

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Judgemental, in this context, means to make moral judgments, and thus in the perjorative sense it is used here it means trying to impose ones own morals on others. At least that is the way I see it.

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 11:06:09 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Gay marriage is a good example. Fuck, gay marriage obviously isn't for me, but I won't go ahead and say that means it's wrong for all human beings.

...good example LAM......and as regards another element of the OP, in my opinion when what is popularily referred to as 'PC' forgets that diversity isn't the same as tolerance, that's when it usually becomes judgemental. Before that stage however it is meant to be the antithesis of being judgemental.

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 11:12:37 AM

slaveluci

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Essentially the difference is this:
Judging: "That's not right for me."
Being judgmental: "That's not right for anyone."

There are many more things that aren't right for me than aren't right for anyone. There are a few things I don't think are right for anyone (murder, you can fill in the blanks), but judgmental people think there are many more. Gay marriage is a good example. Fuck, gay marriage obviously isn't for me, but I won't go ahead and say that means it's wrong for all human beings.

....well said, Lordandmaster........luci

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 11:16:34 AM

RCdc

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Everyone judges. Human nature - if we didn't we'd all be dead. It's perfectly healthy IMO (most of the time). The difficulty in threads and in life is when someone doesn't like their judgement brought into question - or sees the questioning as a personal attack - that's when the fuss all starts.

Peace
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 6/20/2007 11:18:33 AM >

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 11:19:50 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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What if I think it's wrong for everyone, but won't stop someone from doing it?

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 11:22:35 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

What if I think it's wrong for everyone, but won't stop someone from doing it?

...if you don't express that idea in a way that seems calculated to influence behaviour you're not acting judgementally. We all have anti-social urges we routinely suppress........

<...must...control....fist...of......death....>

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 11:29:16 AM

RCdc

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That would depend if your vocal about your judgement as well.

Peace
the.dark.

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 11:30:00 AM

Shantra

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Popeye... how can you say that?? It is obvious from your hat that you would be in there wrestling those crocodiles.. ooops.. was that making a judgement?

First of all, the word judgemental does not actually exist in the Oxford English Dictionary.. it is 2 words.. judge and mental and means to make a judgement based upon the facts.

And I HATE it when someone starts throwing judgemental at me for merely having an opinion. We make judgements moral and otherwise all the time. And yes.. the labels thing drives me nuts too.. would be lovely to be able to be at a lifestyle gathering and say I am Masters slave and not have to listen to a 4 hour discussion on labels, whether they are appropriate, how much someone likes, dislikes or otherwise does or does not identify.. aaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 11:37:19 AM

juliaoceania

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judgmental One entry found for judgmental.

Main Entry: judg·men·tal

Pronunciation: "j&j-'men-t&l
Function: adjective
1 : of, relating to, or involving judgment
2 : characterized by a tendency to judge harshly <judgmental prigs>
- judg·men·tal·ly

/-E/ adverb

I do not have access to oxford online, but here is what websters has on the word

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 11:38:48 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Well that dictionary definition doesn't seem to help- it's just judgement plus some harshness thrown into it, and some people definitely need harshness to get things across.

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 11:41:54 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well that dictionary definition doesn't seem to help- it's just judgement plus some harshness thrown into it, and some people definitely need harshness to get things across.

I know of no person that has escaped the judgmental label, including myself, but it still is what it is.

Now the OP's rant, people that do not like judgments that others make have every right to state so, now if you think that it is harsh, I guess to you that would be judgmental..

Seriously, if this is related to another certain thread going on, I liked what arpig said... you have every right to state your opinion, others have the right to tell you to fuck off and mind your own business.. God I love freedom of speech

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RE: Judgment (bit of a rant) - 6/20/2007 12:22:12 PM

sublimelysensual

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well that dictionary definition doesn't seem to help- it's just judgement plus some harshness thrown into it, and some people definitely need harshness to get things across.

I know of no person that has escaped the judgmental label, including myself, but it still is what it is.

Now the OP's rant, people that do not like judgments that others make have every right to state so, now if you think that it is harsh, I guess to you that would be judgmental..

Seriously, if this is related to another certain thread going on, I liked what arpig said... you have every right to state your opinion, others have the right to tell you to fuck off and mind your own business.. God I love freedom of speech

I have absolutely no problem with people disagreeing with my opinion, frankly, it's no skin off my back whether someone agrees with me or not, particularly in this forum (being the 'net). What I have a problem with, as I stated before, is when the word "judgmental" starts getting thrown around as if everyone does not make judgments, both blanket and otherwise, and as if having opinions..ie..making judgments, is a bad thing. I've seen that happen in any number of threads, including the one you referred to, which is what got me thinking more about it, but by no means was the first time I'd noticed or given it thought. Anyway, as always, just my two cents

-a

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