Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (Full Version)

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selfbnd411 -> Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/13/2007 11:17:23 PM)

It's us though.  Don't worry...Although these groups have killed Americans in the past, they promised to stop it.  Seriously.  They mean it this time.  Not kidding.

U.S. Arming Sunnis in Iraq to Battle Old Qaeda Allies
New York Times
By JOHN F. BURNS and ALISSA J. RUBIN
Published: June 11, 2007

BAGHDAD, June 10 — With the four-month-old increase in American troops showing only modest success in curbing insurgent attacks, American commanders are turning to another strategy that they acknowledge is fraught with risk: arming Sunni Arab groups that have promised to fight militants linked with Al Qaeda who have been their allies in the past.

American commanders say they have successfully tested the strategy in Anbar Province west of Baghdad and have held talks with Sunni groups in at least four areas of central and north-central Iraq where the insurgency has been strong. In some cases, the American commanders say, the Sunni groups are suspected of involvement in past attacks on American troops or of having links to such groups. Some of these groups, they say, have been provided, usually through Iraqi military units allied with the Americans, with arms, ammunition, cash, fuel and supplies.

American officers who have engaged in what they call outreach to the Sunni groups say many of them have had past links to Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia but grew disillusioned with the Islamic militants’ extremist tactics, particularly suicide bombings that have killed thousands of Iraqi civilians. In exchange for American backing, these officials say, the Sunni groups have agreed to fight Al Qaeda and halt attacks on American units. Commanders who have undertaken these negotiations say that in some cases, Sunni groups have agreed to alert American troops to the location of roadside bombs and other lethal booby traps.

But critics of the strategy, including some American officers, say it could amount to the Americans’ arming both sides in a future civil war. The United States has spent more than $15 billion in building up Iraq’s army and police force, whose manpower of 350,000 is heavily Shiite. With an American troop drawdown increasingly likely in the next year, and little sign of a political accommodation between Shiite and Sunni politicians in Baghdad, the critics say, there is a risk that any weapons given to Sunni groups will eventually be used against Shiites. There is also the possibility the weapons could be used against the Americans themselves.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/11/world/middleeast/11iraq.html?pagewanted=1&hp




meatcleaver -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/13/2007 11:55:36 PM)

Britain started the shit in the middle east by drawing lines in sand and running away from its responsibilities after the WWII and allowing the Israelies to set up a state through terrorism rather than waiting for agreement on all sides before withdrwal. The US has been dabbling in the middleeast for its own ends since '67 when it sanctioned Israel's pre-emptive strike against the Arabs and it has been strirring the pot ever since. Not for Israel's sake but for its own cold war ends. This is just another stir of the pot and no doubt it will cause the same shit as all the other times America has stirred the pot. The damage is done, there is nothing America or its allies can do to put the pieces back together. The best thing the Americans can do is to stop stirring the pot and get out and stop dabbling from afar.

America has used so many reasons for its dabbling in the middle east, saving Israel from destruction (it was never in danger of destruction even in '67). Regime change because Saddam was building WMDs (new where are those WMDs again?). Introducing democracy into the region (hah!). Why did America do everything in its power to undermine the Hamas elected authority of the Palestinians? Oh, the Palestinians made the wrong choice even though when they made the right choice, that too was allowed to be undermined by the Israelis and sanctioned by America. Iran wanting to build nuclear weapons, well with a superpower that has endlessly interfered in its internal affairs and done all in its power to undermine the Iranian state which had a revolution throwing out the violently oppressive American sponsored regime, there is no wonder Iran wants to protect itself. The whole shitty chaos of the middle east can be laid at the US's and the west's door.

I can't understand people who seem bewildered and suprised that there are Arabs that should want to kill Americans and other westerners. There is nothing surprising about it, it is Americans and other westerners that are being irrational expecting it to be any other way. Arab animosity to the west is completely rational.




Sinergy -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 12:05:38 AM)

Reminiscent of the Americans rearming the recently defeated Japanese to maintain order in the former
French colony of Vietnam after World War 2.

Sinergy




farglebargle -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 12:11:57 AM)

The Daily Show had this tonight:

Al Qaeda is our enemy

Now the Sunni Insurgency is now becoming Al Queda's enemy, So the Sunni Insurgency, they're our friends!

Of course, the Sunni Insurgency is most responsible for the ieds used to attack our troops, making them our enemies.

And the Shia death squads who have been targeting the Sunni Insurgency are thus our friends!

But they're controlled by Al-Sadr and Iran, who have sworn to defeat us making them our enemies.

But Al-Sadr of course, targeted by Al Qaeda, making Al Qaeda our friends.




farglebargle -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 7:08:41 AM)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/08/AR2007060802879.html

Apparently, U.S. forces have not only aligned themselves with dozens of Sunni militiamen, we’re now cooperating with sectarian militias, working outside the Iraqi security forces, that include insurgents that have attacked Americans in the past. What’s more, we’re allowing them to procure weapons and we’re granting them the power to arrest other Iraqis.

“We have made a deal with the devil,” said an intelligence officer in the battalion.






SimplyMichael -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 7:44:38 AM)

The Israelis are assholes who after the Holocaust shouldn't treat others the same way.  That said, I would take them over the fucking arabs any day.

Israel was deeply stupid for not embracing Hammas.  If they had, Hammas would have had to stand on their own and if they had failed to clean up corruption or change the economic situation for their people, they would have been rejected by the Palestinians.  Israel would have been in a win/win situation, either Hammas grows up and becomes responsible or they lose face and get rejected.  By rejecting them, the Israelis went from a win/win to a lose/lose situation.  If Hammas failed, it was because of Israel, if the succeeded it was because Hammas was great, either way, Hammas wins.

Fucking stupid which of course means Bush supported it because if there is anything he is good at it is backing stupidity.




farglebargle -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 8:10:44 AM)

I'm pretty sure the hard-liners don't care about the Hamas/Fatah war, except that it's killing off Palistinians.





StructuredKing -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 10:44:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The Israelis are assholes who after the Holocaust shouldn't treat others the same way.  That said, I would take them over the fucking arabs any day.


Arabs from Topeka, Kansas, or Arabs from Jersey? Arabs from Morrocco or Arabs from the Sudan? It's like saying I'd take Inuits over Caucasians. Just seemed like a bit of casual racism to me. On the other hand, I agree with the first statement completely- the irony of putting the Palestinians into a ghetto is apparently beyond 95 percent of the worlds population.




SimplyMichael -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 12:26:25 PM)

If you are too stupid to get which arabs from my post then I am not going to waste time trying again.




StructuredKing -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 1:39:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

If you are too stupid to get which arabs from my post then I am not going to waste time trying again.


/yawn. Ad homenim. On a forum. No kidding. It's ok, you're racist.




Pandamonum -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 2:04:03 PM)

This is lunacy.  

This is a deal with the devil and it will come back around. 




Real0ne -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 3:20:49 PM)

yup!

its called fuck your ally alqeada by stabbing them in the back and when they try to fuck you back get a bigger army and create another alqeada!

go us go!




Pandamonum -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 3:29:18 PM)

That is too funny.




farglebargle -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 3:35:08 PM)

It might be FUNNY if there weren't a half-million dead and counting...

Pathetic?

Treasonous?

Outrageous?





Pandamonum -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 3:44:54 PM)

The situation is not funny by any means.  However, the way it was worded was. 
I'm well aware of the situation.  Unfortunately, this is a method that we have employed forever. 

I think rolling the dice here is going to screw the Shiites in Iraq where they are a majority.  Nor, do the Shiites in Iraq closely identify with the ones in Iran. Even in the Iraq-Iran war, the Shiites chose to align themselves with Iraq. 

However, this will make Pakistan, Jordan and Saudi Arabia sleep better at night if it backfires because Iraq has a fairly good chance at that point of a Sunni led Iraq. 
The killing is not going to stop there. Its going to continue as retribution.





NorthernGent -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 11:16:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StructuredKing

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The Israelis are assholes who after the Holocaust shouldn't treat others the same way.  That said, I would take them over the fucking arabs any day.


Arabs from Topeka, Kansas, or Arabs from Jersey? Arabs from Morrocco or Arabs from the Sudan? It's like saying I'd take Inuits over Caucasians. Just seemed like a bit of casual racism to me. On the other hand, I agree with the first statement completely- the irony of putting the Palestinians into a ghetto is apparently beyond 95 percent of the worlds population.


Beyond 95 percent of the US population, perhaps.

Over here, the stealing of Palestinian land, bulldozing of their homes and ethnic cleansing is well documented.




Vendaval -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 11:39:46 PM)

The U.S. has a long and dirty history of arming whatever side suits our political purposes in regional conflicts.
And inevitably, the practice comes back to bite the civilians in the ass.




Lordandmaster -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/14/2007 11:42:12 PM)

Uh huh, how many of y'all have ever heard of Mohammed Mossadegh and Operation Ajax?  And we're still fucking around in Iran fifty years later.




kittinSol -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/15/2007 5:53:01 AM)

Bella gerant alii.




meatcleaver -> RE: Foreign Power Arming Iraqi Insurgents (6/15/2007 6:44:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Uh huh, how many of y'all have ever heard of Mohammed Mossadegh and Operation Ajax?  And we're still fucking around in Iran fifty years later.


Yep.

Slow learners keep getting voted in though.




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