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ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 6:15:51 PM

MsPoetress

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quote:

NEW HAVEN, Conn. ---City officials have approved a plan to offer illegal immigrants identification cards that would let them open bank accounts and use other services that may be unavailable without driver's licenses or state-issued IDs.

"It was really a vote that reflected our values as a community here in New Haven, values of hard work, values of acceptance, and values that we get tough things done when we work together," Mayor John DeStefano said Tuesday.

To read more go here http://handleonthelaw.com/news_details.aspx?News=4193&Date=6/1/2007

I say if New Haven wants them, they can have them. Let's bus them there.

_____________________________

~poe

I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad here, it's the fad for many a year, if you think we're crazy my dear, you're right cause I'M mad, YOU'RE mad, we're ALL mad here! - Mad Hatter

Post #: 1

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 6:18:41 PM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPoetress

quote:

NEW HAVEN, Conn. ---City officials have approved a plan to offer illegal immigrants identification cards that would let them open bank accounts and use other services that may be unavailable without driver's licenses or state-issued IDs.

"It was really a vote that reflected our values as a community here in New Haven, values of hard work, values of acceptance, and values that we get tough things done when we work together," Mayor John DeStefano said Tuesday.

To read more go here http://handleonthelaw.com/news_details.aspx?News=4193&Date=6/1/2007

I say if New Haven wants them, they can have them. Let's bus them there.

Trust me, New Haven does not want them.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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(in reply to MsPoetress)

Post #: 2

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 6:19:34 PM

MsPoetress

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Well if they don't want them, why are they making it easier for them to stay in this country?

< Message edited by MsPoetress -- 6/11/2007 6:20:07 PM >

_____________________________

~poe

I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad here, it's the fad for many a year, if you think we're crazy my dear, you're right cause I'M mad, YOU'RE mad, we're ALL mad here! - Mad Hatter

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 3

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 6:28:06 PM

philosophy

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...a couple of other quotes from the original article.....

"If they can open bank accounts, immigrants will be less likely to carry large amounts of cash, a practice that makes them easy targets for robbers."

"The aldermen agreed to accept $250,000 from a private foundation to pay for the cards that will serve as identification within city limits. The cards will be available to all residents, and can also be used to get library cards or pay for downtown parking meters.

The cards should be available in July, at a cost of $5 for children and $10 for adults."

...so it's actually a measure to prevent violent crime, that the city doesn't have to pay for and it's benefits are also available to legal residents.

(in reply to MsPoetress)

Post #: 4

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 6:31:29 PM

MsPoetress

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It's just making it easier for them to become citizens in the long run.

Them being there is a crime, maybe not violent, but it is a crime.

_____________________________

~poe

I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad here, it's the fad for many a year, if you think we're crazy my dear, you're right cause I'M mad, YOU'RE mad, we're ALL mad here! - Mad Hatter

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 5

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 6:31:42 PM

cyberdude611

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPoetress

Well if they don't want them, why are they making it easier for them to stay in this country?

Because they do the jobs Americans won't do.

(in reply to MsPoetress)

Post #: 6

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 6:32:38 PM

MsPoetress

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Yeah. Okay. Like cleaning up after Yale students....

_____________________________

~poe

I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad here, it's the fad for many a year, if you think we're crazy my dear, you're right cause I'M mad, YOU'RE mad, we're ALL mad here! - Mad Hatter

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 7

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 6:34:38 PM

Wildfleurs

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From: Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPoetress

Well if they don't want them, why are they making it easier for them to stay in this country?

All I can say is that the situation around it is.... complex and highly political. But on a personal level I'm not in favor of it.

C~

Edited to add: it *just* got approved by the Aldermen, so its not clear that it will stand the test of time remotely.

< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 6/11/2007 6:36:52 PM >

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to MsPoetress)

Post #: 8

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 6:36:43 PM

philosophy

Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPoetress

It's just making it easier for them to become citizens in the long run.

Them being there is a crime, maybe not violent, but it is a crime.

...ok, but what's worse.....violent crime or non-violent crime? If the former then the plan is an arguably sensible and pragmatic idea. If the latter, then how the hell would anyone think like that.....if, perhaps, there is no difference betwen them, then that is an interesting ethical position...but one i don't share.

(in reply to MsPoetress)

Post #: 9

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 6:42:26 PM

ThePrincessBych

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Yes cleaning up after Yale students is the ONLY jobs that illegal immigrants do... They dont pick our fruits & vegetables, they dont wait on tables, dry clean our clothes,clean our homes,build homes, babysit children, build bridges..etc. They are just ignorant THINGS, not even human I suppose who came here to make a better life for their family. Agreed it is illegal for them to be here...but most of us break the law everyday, speeding, running stop signs, illegal parking. Its right up there with that IMO. Oh and you probably think they dont pay taxes either? Another funny little myth most uninformed people believe...when the fact is they have taxes taken out of their check every week and never get a tax return.. ah, nevermind, I am wasting my time. It does no good to try to get some people to see the good in others despite them having made some mistakes.

(in reply to MsPoetress)

Post #: 10

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 6:48:09 PM

cyberdude611

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessBych

Yes cleaning up after Yale students is the ONLY jobs that illegal immigrants do... They dont pick our fruits & vegetables, they dont wait on tables, dry clean our clothes,clean our homes,build homes, babysit children, build bridges..etc. They are just ignorant THINGS, not even human I suppose who came here to make a better life for their family. Agreed it is illegal for them to be here...but most of us break the law everyday, speeding, running stop signs, illegal parking. Its right up there with that IMO. Oh and you probably think they dont pay taxes either? Another funny little myth most uninformed people believe...when the fact is they have taxes taken out of their check every week and never get a tax return.. ah, nevermind, I am wasting my time. It does no good to try to get some people to see the good in others despite them having made some mistakes.

The idea that they do jobs Americans won't do is both insulting and racist.

When the government busts places that hire illegal immigrants....Americans line up by the hundreds to take the jobs. The reason corporations hire illegals is because they pay them cheap labor with no benifits while Americans demand more pay.

The CEO of Microsoft admitted that they hire foreign labor specifically because "Americans make too much money."

(in reply to ThePrincessBych)

Post #: 11

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 6:48:34 PM

MsPoetress

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Wow calm down.

What I said about Yale students was a joke.

I also never said that they weren't hard workers, but I have family and friends who are hard workers.They had to go through the process. They had to go through alot and pay a lot to become citizens, and I think that is unfair that some are just going to get what they want without having to work for it.

I have no problem with people coming here to make a better life, I just feel that it should be done the right way.

_____________________________

~poe

I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad here, it's the fad for many a year, if you think we're crazy my dear, you're right cause I'M mad, YOU'RE mad, we're ALL mad here! - Mad Hatter

(in reply to ThePrincessBych)

Post #: 12

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 6:59:14 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

I read about this last week on the internet.
I also read on the internet that people in other states are printing up flyers in Spanish urging them to go to New Haven for free housing, food, clothing, medical care and other free stuff and posting them in illegal alien areas.
Boy, if New Haven wants illegal aliens they're going to get some!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to MsPoetress)

Post #: 13

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 7:47:20 PM

Vendaval

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Joined: 1/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

The idea that they do jobs Americans won't do is both insulting and racist.

How many Americans sign up to work in the fields, or as janitors, garbage collectors, dishwashers, maids, etc?

When the government busts places that hire illegal immigrants....Americans line up by the hundreds to take the jobs.

Examples, please

The reason corporations hire illegals is because they pay them cheap labor with no benifits while Americans demand more pay.

That sounds like almost all of the jobs available to US citizens in many areas, low wages, almost but not quite full time hours so benefits are not possible, etc. Check out the working conditions in restaurants, hotels and retail stores.

The CEO of Microsoft admitted that they hire foreign labor specifically because "Americans make too much money."

Are you talking sending the work out of the US as in off-shoring to India or hiring temporary workers here on work Visas and contracting out (out-sourcing) ?

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(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 14

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 8:00:20 PM

selfbnd411

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

When the government busts places that hire illegal immigrants....Americans line up by the hundreds to take the jobs. The reason corporations hire illegals is because they pay them cheap labor with no benifits while Americans demand more pay.

Corporations aren't hiring illegals...I don't know where you get this idea. Corporations hire guest workers under the H1B visa program for jobs that they supposedly can't find skilled Americans to do. That's silly. They ought to be allowed to import skilled workers only after signing a contract to sponsor an American through job training/college and eventually hire them.

And there are plenty of jobs Americans won't do. Field workers make more money than I do for my summer job (the average field worker wage is $9.72/hr, I make $8/hr). I could make 25% more if I would pick fruit this summer, but there's no way I'll do that. It's backbreaking work, hot, and dangerous. No thank you.

Instead I'm delivering linen. It's fun--I get to drive trucks all day for money. Not bad. It's interesting to look at the "division of labor" amongst the student employees on campus though (I work at my university). Let me break it down for you:

Desk attendants (sit at the desk all day and keep an eye on the lobby): $7.50/hr
Housekeeping: (clean rooms and change bedsheets all day): $8/hr

Now, one job is nearly entirely filled by Mexican-American students. The other job is nearly exclusively white. Guess which is which. Hint: The white kids wouldn't know what to do with a vacuum and a bottle of speedball if their lives depended on it.

Edit to add: I got a special deal

I'm under the housekeeping department and get housekeeping pay but I don't have to clean stuff. If I did, I would quit in 2 seconds flat!

< Message edited by selfbnd411 -- 6/11/2007 8:01:41 PM >

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 15

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 8:23:39 PM

KenDckey

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Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline

When my ex worked at a county hosp in Cali, the various states used to ship their sick there for free treatment. It was chaper to do that than keep and treat and house, etc them. Me thinks New Haven is gonna regret their choice in the long run.

(in reply to selfbnd411)

Post #: 16

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 8:46:17 PM

MsPoetress

Posts: 1066
Joined: 4/4/2006
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Of course corporations are hiring illegal aliens, they just don't know it. It is so easy to obtain fake documents.

_____________________________

~poe

I'm mad, you're mad, we're all mad here, it's the fad for many a year, if you think we're crazy my dear, you're right cause I'M mad, YOU'RE mad, we're ALL mad here! - Mad Hatter

(in reply to KenDckey)

Post #: 17

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 9:05:55 PM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

When the government busts places that hire illegal immigrants....Americans line up by the hundreds to take the jobs. The reason corporations hire illegals is because they pay them cheap labor with no benifits while Americans demand more pay.

Corporations aren't hiring illegals...I don't know where you get this idea. Corporations hire guest workers under the H1B visa program for jobs that they supposedly can't find skilled Americans to do. That's silly. They ought to be allowed to import skilled workers only after signing a contract to sponsor an American through job training/college and eventually hire them.

And there are plenty of jobs Americans won't do. Field workers make more money than I do for my summer job (the average field worker wage is $9.72/hr, I make $8/hr). I could make 25% more if I would pick fruit this summer, but there's no way I'll do that. It's backbreaking work, hot, and dangerous. No thank you.

Instead I'm delivering linen. It's fun--I get to drive trucks all day for money. Not bad. It's interesting to look at the "division of labor" amongst the student employees on campus though (I work at my university). Let me break it down for you:

Desk attendants (sit at the desk all day and keep an eye on the lobby): $7.50/hr
Housekeeping: (clean rooms and change bedsheets all day): $8/hr

Now, one job is nearly entirely filled by Mexican-American students. The other job is nearly exclusively white. Guess which is which. Hint: The white kids wouldn't know what to do with a vacuum and a bottle of speedball if their lives depended on it.

Edit to add: I got a special deal I'm under the housekeeping department and get housekeeping pay but I don't have to clean stuff. If I did, I would quit in 2 seconds flat!

Apparently you havn't paid much attention to this issue...

I forgot the name of the company but ICE just recently busted a meat-packaging plant and arrested dozens of illegal aliens. The next day, Americans were lining up ready to take their $18 an hour jobs back.

What is going on here is corporations attempting to union-bust and lower the average wage.

And your idea of the hotel industry is incorrect. I have a neighbor who is a student that works night audit at a popular hotel chain. He gets paid $12 an hour. He said the housekeeping staff make $8/hour if they are lucky...and they are all hispanic. If the hotel paid $15 a hour for housekeeping...you will see white kids doing that job. But for $8 an hour...they wont do it.

(in reply to selfbnd411)

Post #: 18

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/11/2007 9:06:25 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

At that factory in Fall River or New Bedford, I forget which, when they busted the 365 illegals two days later they said on the news that 800 Americans applied for those jobs.
And that factory had U.S. govt. contracts making stuff for the U.S. Military.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Post #: 19

RE: ID Cards for Illegal Aliens - 6/12/2007 1:14:05 AM

DeviantlyD

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Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

The reason corporations hire illegals is because they pay them cheap labor with no benifits while Americans demand more pay.

....bingo

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPoetress

I have no problem with people coming here to make a better life, I just feel that it should be done the right way.

I agree. I'm a legal alien. (Sounds weird to me, but that's the definition!) Quite frankly it pisses me off that there are illegals here who feel entitled to be here. I live in Hawai`i and believe it or not there are an incredible number of illegal Mexicans here. I encounter them at work pretty much every day. There was one family that came in, they are on federal assistance, yet they have a nice new Nissan. How does that work? And there are so many young Mexican women (girls mostly) who are pregnant. I'm sure I don't have to explain the reasoning behind that one. They are on federal assistance too, but I doubt these young women are making their contribution to the IRS.

It's been said that illegals are here for better opportunities. For those who are from Mexico, I can't help wonder that if they put the same ingenuity into making their own country better that they do trying to get into the USA illegally, perhaps Mexico would be a prosperous country. They are a tourist destination and there is some agriculture too, so they have the basic building blocks - they just need to weed out the corrupted individuals in power. Okay, so I know I'm oversimplifying here, but do you see my point?

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 20

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