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RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/6/2007 1:44:12 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Dont underestimate the Turks. Theyre not some backward lot.

They want EU membership. Say for instance, the US wanted them to take over in Iraq. The US puts pressure on those resisting the Turks in the EU and encourages those who would like the Turks in the EU (mainly the Brits, interestingly). The Turks get into the EU, whose power balance is suddenly tilted firmly away from the Franco-German pole and into the hands of more US friendly member states. The Turks get a cut of the oil money from Iraq and a chance to put an end to business with the Kurds once and for all, whilst a blind eye is turned. The US gets out of Iraq and can focus on Iran. The Brits get control of the EU and the US gets strong influence over the EU via the Brits.

Everyone wins. Stranger things have happened. Like the selling out of the eastern bloc in 1945 for instance.

E

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RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/6/2007 1:59:17 PM   
Sinergy


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I see your point, LadyEllen, and I am not underestimating the Turks.

Would Turkey be able to deal with 40,000,000 heavily armed and trained Iraqis any better than the US was able to?

Sinergy

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RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/6/2007 2:20:58 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Sorry Sinergy - it wasnt aimed as a reply to you!

In short, yes I think the Turks would do far better than we have. They have more than enough manpower, they dont regard the personal safety of their troops as importantly as we do, and they have far fewer scruples than we do in dealing with those gunning for them.

And given our record, thats saying something.

E

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RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/6/2007 3:18:54 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I am sure your response was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but the idea of leaving the mess to the turks has some appeal


You know what they say about true words being spoken in jest..... though I dont necessarily jest. I can see such a strategy being employed some time soon.

E


The only thing is the Turks wouldn't "conquer Iraq".... they'd shove the Kurds halfway to the Iranian border and stop. They don't give a shit about the rest of Iraq.

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RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/6/2007 3:31:20 PM   
puella


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Status: offline 		Oh come on now Fargle, you don't actually believe that we have ever given a shit about the Kurds, do ya?  Surely you didn' fall for the line GW spun the nation on about how bad Saddam was for 'gassing' them... especially when the U.S. Government supplied him with the ammunition to do just that job?

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RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/6/2007 5:08:31 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Dont underestimate the Turks. Theyre not some backward lot.

They want EU membership. Say for instance, the US wanted them to take over in Iraq. The US puts pressure on those resisting the Turks in the EU and encourages those who would like the Turks in the EU (mainly the Brits, interestingly). The Turks get into the EU, whose power balance is suddenly tilted firmly away from the Franco-German pole and into the hands of more US friendly member states. The Turks get a cut of the oil money from Iraq and a chance to put an end to business with the Kurds once and for all, whilst a blind eye is turned. The US gets out of Iraq and can focus on Iran. The Brits get control of the EU and the US gets strong influence over the EU via the Brits.

Everyone wins. Stranger things have happened. Like the selling out of the eastern bloc in 1945 for instance.

E


Lady E.
You say everyone wins....what do the Kurds win?
thompson

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/6/2007 5:43:47 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael72801

I look forward to Turkey joining the combat in Iraq. The Turkish military is a no nonsense organization, not hindered by western morals.
Just which western morals are you speaking of here?  The morals that enslaved millions of blacks? The morals  that committed genocide against the indigenous inhabitants of the United States?  The morals the took at the point of a gun most of the United States.  The morals that faked an attack in the Gulf of Tonkin so we could steal the wealth of Viet Nam? The morals that deceitfully got us into Iraq so we could steal their oil?  The morals that are enshrined in the travesty at Abeu Grav?  The morals that drive the curriculum at the School of the Americas?


They will shoot first and not even attempt to ask questions. Turks are perfectly adapted to dealing with terrosists and terrorism. The best part is, the west does not have to answer for Turkish retribution. 
Turkish retribution for what?

I am somewhat concerned about innocent Kurds (poor farmers and their families).
As opposed to rich Kurds and Kurdish businessmen?

The Turks will have no leniency towards them. As far as the belligerent Kurds that consisitently ravage the Turkish homeland, I say let the Turks have them.
I can only suggest you consult a history book not written in Turkey.

This petty religious squabble that inundates and permeates the middle east has to be brought under control. If that means killing all the protagonists, I agree.
Once the genocide of the Kurds is complete who else would you like to liquidate?


(in reply to Michael72801)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/6/2007 6:29:21 PM   
UtopianRanger


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quote:

So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do?

Actually..... I think the true dilemma that surrounds Turkey is not whether they will invade Iraq, but rather will they sign on in the bombing of Iran. From what I've read.... there's a meeting going on this weekend in Istanbul with a mission in mind to persuade high level Turks into signing on for Iran.

Pakistan / Musharraf told them to fuck off with regard to Iran....So for me, the supposition that revolves around the Turkish Army penetrating the Kurdish border, is nothing more than a bargaining ploy / smoke screen.




- R






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-General George S. Patton


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/6/2007 9:50:51 PM   
bbw2switch


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From: toronto
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quote:

So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/6/2007 11:11:25 AM
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

get out the cranberry sauce and the apple pie...don't forget the fruit cocktail...LOL


i believe you left something out THE GRAVY  and bisquits..... 

some people in america would not grasp the political ramifications of such a move.  for them turkey IS a meal ...

but hey, what do i know? i am canadian, and my only source for insightful, non bisased political news is "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart"


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i am already deranged .. just waiting for CM to catch up..so don't think of me as a "newbie"

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http://mlady.covenspace.com/

(in reply to michaelOfGeorgia)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/7/2007 4:28:11 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Dont underestimate the Turks. Theyre not some backward lot.

They want EU membership. Say for instance, the US wanted them to take over in Iraq. The US puts pressure on those resisting the Turks in the EU and encourages those who would like the Turks in the EU (mainly the Brits, interestingly). The Turks get into the EU, whose power balance is suddenly tilted firmly away from the Franco-German pole and into the hands of more US friendly member states. The Turks get a cut of the oil money from Iraq and a chance to put an end to business with the Kurds once and for all, whilst a blind eye is turned. The US gets out of Iraq and can focus on Iran. The Brits get control of the EU and the US gets strong influence over the EU via the Brits.

Everyone wins. Stranger things have happened. Like the selling out of the eastern bloc in 1945 for instance.

E


Lady E.
You say everyone wins....what do the Kurds win?
thompson


Dont be silly. I was talking about what the human beings get out of this. What the nameless, faceless scum of the earth get is irrelevant.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/7/2007 5:05:21 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Lady E.
You say everyone wins....what do the Kurds win?
thompson

Dear TX,

I know this wasn't for me, and understand the rhetorical nature, but the Kurdish people have been fucked by so many over the last 1000 years and it ain't at all like our Gov as traditional policy is above fuckin' a friendly people or losing interest in a war they shouldn't have been in in the first place and letting their promised allies fend for themselves.

George W Hmong

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/7/2007 5:46:33 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael72801

I look forward to Turkey joining the combat in Iraq. The Turkish military is a no nonsense organization, not hindered by western morals.
Just which western morals are you speaking of here?  The morals that enslaved millions of blacks? The morals  that committed genocide against the indigenous inhabitants of the United States?  The morals the took at the point of a gun most of the United States.  The morals that faked an attack in the Gulf of Tonkin so we could steal the wealth of Viet Nam? The morals that deceitfully got us into Iraq so we could steal their oil?  The morals that are enshrined in the travesty at Abeu Grav?  The morals that drive the curriculum at the School of the Americas?




I wonder Thompson.   Why did you leave out the morals of Ethiopia whose Queen of Sheba taught her son to steal the Arc of the Covenant, or the Kahmir Rhuge to wipe out its own peoples, or the Vatacian for the inquisition, or....?

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/7/2007 7:01:49 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Dont underestimate the Turks. Theyre not some backward lot.

They want EU membership. Say for instance, the US wanted them to take over in Iraq. The US puts pressure on those resisting the Turks in the EU and encourages those who would like the Turks in the EU (mainly the Brits, interestingly). The Turks get into the EU, whose power balance is suddenly tilted firmly away from the Franco-German pole and into the hands of more US friendly member states. The Turks get a cut of the oil money from Iraq and a chance to put an end to business with the Kurds once and for all, whilst a blind eye is turned. The US gets out of Iraq and can focus on Iran. The Brits get control of the EU and the US gets strong influence over the EU via the Brits.

Everyone wins. Stranger things have happened. Like the selling out of the eastern bloc in 1945 for instance.

E


Lady E.
You say everyone wins....what do the Kurds win?
thompson


Dont be silly. I was talking about what the human beings get out of this. What the nameless, faceless scum of the earth get is irrelevant.

E


Lady E:
I have always appreciated your subtle eloquence and your command of the understated. 
You have yet to disappoint me.
thompson 

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/7/2007 7:06:00 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael72801

I look forward to Turkey joining the combat in Iraq. The Turkish military is a no nonsense organization, not hindered by western morals.
Just which western morals are you speaking of here?  The morals that enslaved millions of blacks? The morals  that committed genocide against the indigenous inhabitants of the United States?  The morals the took at the point of a gun most of the United States.  The morals that faked an attack in the Gulf of Tonkin so we could steal the wealth of Viet Nam? The morals that deceitfully got us into Iraq so we could steal their oil?  The morals that are enshrined in the travesty at Abeu Grav?  The morals that drive the curriculum at the School of the Americas?




I wonder Thompson.   Why did you leave out the morals of Ethiopia whose Queen of Sheba taught her son to steal the Arc of the Covenant, or the Kahmir Rhuge to wipe out its own peoples, or the Vatacian for the inquisition, or....?


KenDckey:
Perhaps it is because the comparison was between U.S. morality and Turk morality.
thompson

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/7/2007 9:23:25 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		hmmmm   then you condone their genicide against the armenians (according to all my friends here in the US) or did you forget that one?

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/7/2007 11:55:23 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

hmmmm   then you condone their genicide against the armenians (according to all my friends here in the US) or did you forget that one?


KenDckey:
I have no idea what you are talking about and it is pretty clear that you don't either.
My statement was in response to the statement by Michael72801 that the Turks are not hampered by western morals.  One of many examples would be  their genocide against the Armenians. 
My post simply showed that the U.S. can and has been just as immoral if not more so and more recently.
Hopefully the enclosed pry bar will help to get your foot out of your mouth.
thompson

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/7/2007 11:57:53 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

hmmmm   then you condone their genicide against the armenians (according to all my friends here in the US) or did you forget that one?


..surely it's possible to condemn both sets of atrocities, Ken. Given two sets of morals it is entirely possible to end up condemning both. Just because one is bad that doesn't make the other good......

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/7/2007 12:53:41 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
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Status: offline 		We need to murder every one of those genocidal bastards, to be safe we should kill all their male children and rape the rest to show them how civilized people should behave.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/7/2007 1:26:34 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
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Status: offline 		...you forgot to poison the wells and salt the fields........

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: So, when Turkey invades Iraq, what will the US do? - 6/7/2007 5:47:06 PM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
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Status: offline 		From a Turkish point of view wouldn't it be better to make an agreement with Iran for Turkey to take northenr Iraq and the oil, for Iran to take the shia area and southern oil and to leave a sunni bit in the middle as a buffer with nothing.

Return to pre 19th C situations  ........................... 

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Profile   Post #: 40
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