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RE: Republican debate - 6/6/2007 10:20:01 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

If you are a NeoCon, Ron Paul represents the ultimate in defeat. Not only do your lose your agenda, but you lose control of the Republican party. He is the enemy within.

You could imagine that the garden variety NeoCon would rather see Ted Kennedy in the White House.

I look for things to turn very personal and very nasty should his numbers come up significantly.

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RE: Republican debate - 6/6/2007 11:37:11 AM

GoddessDustyGold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

If you are a NeoCon, Ron Paul represents the ultimate in defeat. Not only do your lose your agenda, but you lose control of the Republican party. He is the enemy within.

You could imagine that the garden variety NeoCon would rather see Ted Kennedy in the White House.

I look for things to turn very personal and very nasty should his numbers come up significantly.

I am just concerned that his numbers will not come up significantly. But I'm a tryin'!

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Post #: 22

RE: Republican debate - 6/6/2007 3:41:26 PM

caitlyn

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While still early, it's looking like the impossible dream at this point. It's very hard to see a scenario where his numbers would improve past one or two percent. The debates align agianst him, and he doesn't have the money for mass presentation of his views.

Quite depressing really.

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RE: Republican debate - 6/6/2007 4:26:57 PM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Anyone watch it? Opinions?

#1, they didn't promote it well at all. I've been a (reforming) Republican for years...and I didn't know it was on until 2 hours prior to...

#2, this was as boring as reading the annual Rhododendrum Growers Society itinerary for their stay in NE Ohio, while having seminars on Amish "Solar Power...you can have it too...open your drapes".

I switched channels more often than had I been watching a Dairy Queen commercial.

The Democrats definetely have the "sizzle" quotient sewed up this year.

I haven't voted in a national election since Bush 2...the first (as in this go around being the second)...after that one, it became fairly clear to me, my vote doesn't mean shit...

My Mom has always told me (at every election)..."...THIS is the most important election...NOTHING has been as important as THIS election....you need to pass the word wherever you can..."

"Tell your story" ("get the word out").

(Mom was a bit on the fringe).

I don't think this election is any more important than others (except that it actually is)...I don't think it holds any unique capacity (but, more than likely, it probably does)...

But I do think this (as to the OP's original question):

This place is a bit fucked up. Not just us, but the world (and my bias, of course, is because of our news sources).

The world doesn't hate us like the press would have us believe. People still clamor for a visa to the US...

(But we could do better).

< Message edited by Griswold -- 6/6/2007 4:28:31 PM >

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RE: Republican debate - 6/6/2007 5:24:21 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I will probably vote Green if he doesnt.

Sinergy

i do not support a puppet government, ron paul or green here regardless of the bullshit they spin.

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RE: Republican debate - 6/6/2007 6:08:42 PM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

If you are a NeoCon, Ron Paul represents the ultimate in defeat. Not only do your lose your agenda, but you lose control of the Republican party. He is the enemy within.

You could imagine that the garden variety NeoCon would rather see Ted Kennedy in the White House.

Oh.... how on the money today you are. lol If they can't seduce the base into accepting Julie Juliani or the shill from Arizona, there's not a single doubt in my mind that they'd like to see a war-monger / war-on-terror democrat at the helm.

Let us not forget....the earliest of those identifying as neo-conservatives originated from the bowls of the Democratic Party.

Scoop Jackson, Richard Pearle, Paul Wolfowitz, Michael Ledeen, Leo Strauss and Allan Bloom are all former democrats.

And when folks think of the Bush family as conservative Texas oil folk, they couldn't be farther from the truth. The Brown-Harriman bank, where Prescott Bush gained prominence, is among a very liberal form of republican bankers similar to that of the Rockefellers. And who considers the Rockeller's to be true Reupublicans these days?!?

- R

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RE: Republican debate - 6/6/2007 7:54:09 PM

caitlyn

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My Senior year of High School, I did a paper for an English Comp., class that took the two Roosevelt Presidents, and compared them to our last two Presidents.

Democrat Bill Clinton, compared more closely to Republican Teddy Roosavelt, than he did to FDR. Both felt that big government needed to be the chief arbiter between business and labor. Teddy was known as the "Trust Buster", and Bill Clinton took on the ultimate trust, Microsoft.

Some interresting parallels between Democrat FDR and Republican President Bush ... both were less than successful businessmen, both were involved in less than squeeky clean business deals in general, and to this day, FDR can't shake the label that he orcastrated Pearl Harbor, in order to bring the United States into the Second World War.

Of course, at the time I wrote the paper, we were less sure about the administration's role in Iraq (except Sinergy, who knew all along ), so my comparison was more, "What insinuations will they have about President Bush?"

Also, I knew the teacher loved Bush ... so I guess you can label me, "Caitlyn - will compromise values for GPA."

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RE: Republican debate - 6/7/2007 7:51:19 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

i do not support a puppet government, ron paul or green here regardless of the bullshit they spin.

Well too bad... the chances of you being allowed to run the government to suit you are still sitting right on zero.

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RE: Republican debate - 6/7/2007 2:05:18 PM

NeedToUseYou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

we're getting a way bigger warehouse beginning of July(already signed the paperwork) I can store and distribute it, all my customers will all be getting a complimentary ron paul pack, with a dvd.

Please drop Me a line on the other side so I know what web site to visit and what I should buy to get My complimentary Ron Paul pack and DVD!

Well, he ordered them already, he actually called and had a conference call with Ron Paul Head quarters to make sure they were cool with everything. He ordered less than I thought he was going to so it may be distributed from his location instead of here. I was going to do the whole distribution because I have a lot of space and efficient shipping system integrated with the online sales.. If the sales are brisk though, I'll probably end up doing it, as we have the space and a system in place for making order processing efficient. The guys he's working with locally would just be manually doing everything which works if you are doing a small number of orders. Either way it will be availabe online and there will be minimal profit above cost of getting them made, and any profit will be shoved back into more signs or some form of Ron Paul support effort.

I'll post a link to the Ron Paul signs, stickers etc.... webstore once it is going. (Don't want to launch it before have product).

So, it may just turn into keeping it exclusive unto itself. As he was talking to the Federal government people that regulate elections, and if I did it through my business I'd have to comply with their stupid regulations. In other words it's okay for me as NeedToUseYou to mail shit, but I'd be regulated if NeedToUseYou Corp. mailed the stuff and ate the costs. Though I could be contracted to provide mailing services for the Sign site. It's Ironic that all these corporate reforms about contributions really just made the Media corporations more powerful, in that restricting what my corporation can give to near nothing, in comparison to the media coverage, it essentially gave the Media corporations even more control over politics.

So, end result is I probably am best off from a legal perspective not including a Ron Paul pack with my purchases. Though I may still distribute the products as a stand alone item, via being a contracted mailing agent. More government interference.

Funny.

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RE: Republican debate - 6/19/2007 5:28:40 PM

NeedToUseYou

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Well, he got some signs and bumper stickers. They are testing how it goes selling them out there starting on ebay. It looks pretty cheap, but they are selling them in quantity.

Anyway, these people selling them out there have nothing to do with me, they are being distributed by business aquaintances of my friend out there. I've never met these people.

Anyway, they seem to be selling them at fair enough prices.

Note these are for multiple quantiies, more appropriate purchases for local organizers.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160128309726

You can click view sellers other items to see more items, he may run out, and points out there may be a delay as they get more printed, so don't get mad . If that is a concern ask before you buy, as they were selling briskly.

It's not as good as I was wanting to do and include some in packages for free, but anyway, they are asking a pretty low price, and they are printed on good material, some of the sellers are selling signs that are made of crap material. These are printed on the same material as official campaign signs are printed on by the same company.

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RE: Republican debate - 6/19/2007 6:56:32 PM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Anyone watch it? Opinions?

(I want $5.00 for my opinion. Frequent flyer miles may apply).

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RE: Republican debate - 6/19/2007 7:50:30 PM

popeye1250

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They said on the News today that McCain has now dropped to 5th place in Iowa with Mike Huckabee in front of him!
Boy, that Amnesty stuff does wonders for one's political carreer!

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RE: Republican debate - 6/19/2007 9:28:08 PM

dragone

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Just remember ya' all; It's not over till your brother counts the votes."

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RE: Republican debate - 6/20/2007 7:48:54 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

All the analysts are saying that McCain won.

I dont think the voters think so. Personally I think the man is a complete fraud.

Cyberdude611:
Fraud is about the kindest thing one could say about the man. He is a naval academy graduate whose father and grandfather were four star admirals and after ten years in the navy was only a liutenant...he had to become a pow to get promoted. They tried to "frag" him once and damn near sunk the ship in the process.
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RE: Republican debate - 6/20/2007 8:00:59 AM

MsBearlee

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Fast Reply:

Okay, after listening to NPR's interview with Tancredo...I don't know how ANYBODY could consider the guy for president!

Link to audio of interview:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11188223 (click 'Listen')

GAWD...not only does he SOUND like snake oil, he's scary as hell (takes the bible literally), but he's a bigot! Check it out!

B

< Message edited by MsBearlee -- 6/20/2007 8:02:11 AM >

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This one, as well!

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RE: Republican debate - 6/20/2007 10:10:37 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

All the analysts are saying that McCain won.

I dont think the voters think so. Personally I think the man is a complete fraud.

Cyberdude611:
Fraud is about the kindest thing one could say about the man. He is a naval academy graduate whose father and grandfather were four star admirals and after ten years in the navy was only a liutenant...he had to become a pow to get promoted. They tried to "frag" him once and damn near sunk the ship in the process.
thompson

That is remarkable, considering that McCain was a listed as a Lt.Commander when he was shot down in 1967, which was 9 years after he graduated from Annapolis...he spent his 10th year in captivity.

quote:

...he graduated
from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1958...

...LtCdr. John S. McCain III was a pilot assigned to Attack Squadron 163
onboard the aircraft carrier USS ORISKANY (CVA-34). On October 26, 1967, he
launched in his A4E "Skyhawk" attack aircraft as the number three aircraft
in the first division of a strike group against the Hanoi Thermal Power
Plant.

http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/m/m125.htm

Would you provide a link to your source for the claim that he was only a Lieutenant at the 10 year mark?

(And BTW, making Commander in under 15 years would be equally remakable....Lt. Cdr. in 9 is considered a 'fast burner').
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/navypromotions/l/blofficerprom.htm

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RE: Republican debate - 7/4/2007 4:54:20 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

All the analysts are saying that McCain won.

I dont think the voters think so. Personally I think the man is a complete fraud.

Cyberdude611:
Fraud is about the kindest thing one could say about the man. He is a naval academy graduate whose father and grandfather were four star admirals and after ten years in the navy was only a liutenant...he had to become a pow to get promoted. They tried to "frag" him once and damn near sunk the ship in the process.
thompson

That is remarkable, considering that McCain was a listed as a Lt.Commander when he was shot down in 1967, which was 9 years after he graduated from Annapolis...he spent his 10th year in captivity.

quote:

...he graduated
from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1958...

...LtCdr. John S. McCain III was a pilot assigned to Attack Squadron 163
onboard the aircraft carrier USS ORISKANY (CVA-34). On October 26, 1967, he
launched in his A4E "Skyhawk" attack aircraft as the number three aircraft
in the first division of a strike group against the Hanoi Thermal Power
Plant.

http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/m/m125.htm

Would you provide a link to your source for the claim that he was only a Lieutenant at the 10 year mark?

(And BTW, making Commander in under 15 years would be equally remakable....Lt. Cdr. in 9 is considered a 'fast burner').
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/navypromotions/l/blofficerprom.htm

Alumbrado:
Sorry for the delay but it would appear that a lot of McCains history has been sanitized.
"Ace McCain" has a date of rank of 1 Jan 1967. This in itself is a red flag. Officer selection boards do not meet on new years day. It is common practice to back date promotions for pay purposes.
"Ace McCain" (five aircraft destroyed,all American no enemy) Is listed on the unit diary of VA 163 on the day of his final mission as a lieutenant.http://www.foia.navy.mil.
Lt. McCain had crashed three aircraft in six years this is not the sort of thing one gets promoted for. Once he had been shot down it would not be a difficult thing for his daddy to arrange for his promotion to Lt.Cmdr. and to back date it to the first of the year. Navy regs allow for the promotion of officers who are Prisoners of War to proceed with minimum time in grade with no pro and con scores, Thus McCain made full commander while in custody. His fourth stripe (Captain) comes also on retirement.
The link you provided for promotion times is from regulations that were current in August of 97 the rules for promotion in 1967 were somewhat different.
"Ace McCain" left Annapolis in June of 58 (fifth from the bottom in a class of 899)as an ensign. Made Lt.Jg twelve months later and full Lieutenant sixteen months after that (just before he crashed his first airplane). It took him nearly three years to finish an 18 month naval aviators class at Pensacola Fla.
"Ace McCain" claims 23 combat missions but the official navy records can only account for two combat missions.
Naval Aviation History Office
Naval Warfare Division
Naval Historical Center
1242 Th Street S.E.
Washington Navy Yard, DC 20374-5059
Naval Aviation History Office
Naval Warfare Division
Naval Historical Center
1242 10th Street S.E.
Washington Navy Yard, DC 20374-505

McCains autobiography "Faith of my Fathers" ghost written by Mark Salter is more than a little informative about his character.
I must however retract my comment about someone trying to frag him being the cause of the fire on the Forrestal, CVA 59. In the course of my research on him I found an interesting piece of video that shows an F4 phantom landing on the Forrestal with "hung ordinance" that was accidentally triggered as the F4 was "painted" with a radar sweep. The "hung ordinance" left the F4 and went bouncing down the carrier deck and struck the aircraft in front of Lt. McCains, parked and waiting to launch, A4. The ensuing fire killed 134 men and nearly sunk the Forrestal.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 7/4/2007 5:07:25 AM >

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RE: Republican debate - 7/4/2007 7:38:09 AM

Alumbrado

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Promotion times in grade for 1967 may have been slightly different, but McCain's officially listed rank is consistent with the time he was in...your link goes not to a source for your claim, but to the page for filing FOIA requests.

And anyone familiar with the history of the Forrestal knows that they suffered multiple fires due to accident or arson, earning the nickname 'USS Forestfire'.

While 'must have been sanitized' makes for a great theory, ala LBJ and Kerry et al, it isn't proof for applying that theory to McCain in particular, which is why I would like to see more in the way of verifiable evidence, and less in the way of woven together speculations.

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RE: Republican debate - 7/4/2007 7:28:36 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Promotion times in grade for 1967 may have been slightly different, but McCain's officially listed rank is consistent with the time he was in...your link goes not to a source for your claim, but to the page for filing FOIA requests.
I am sorry I thought you would follow the link and request the relevant data as I did.

And anyone familiar with the history of the Forrestal knows that they suffered multiple fires due to accident or arson, earning the nickname 'USS Forestfire'.
I am more than a little familiar with the history of the Forrestal. It was on "Yankee Station " for three and a half days when the fire that nearly sank it broke out as I described in my previous post. It then spent almost three years being repaired. It was this incident in which "Ace McCain" was involved that earned it the nick name "Forrestfire"

While 'must have been sanitized' makes for a great theory, ala LBJ and Kerry et al, it isn't proof for applying that theory to McCain in particular, which is why I would like to see more in the way of verifiable evidence, and less in the way of woven together speculations.
My remark that his records have been sanitized was a reference to the difficulty I had in finding the data I have referred you to. It is not available on line but is available at the addresses I have directed you to. The relevant documents you might want to look for are the official inquiry into the fire on the Forrestal. The Unit Diary and flight log for his squadron and the article in "Approach Magazine" the official naval aviation safety publication that lists all incidents and accidents involving naval and marine aviation.

These are not speculation but simply official navy documents that list him as a lieutenant at the time of his aborted flight from the USS Forrestal and his final flight from the USS Oriskany.
The only speculation I have made is to question whether it is logical that a man who has crashed three planes in six years(all of which were listed as "pilot error") has marginal conduct and proficiency marks and three and a half days "in theater" would be promoted. Since official navy records show that he was a lieutenant both at the time the incident on the Forrestal and at the time of his of his final mission and the official record shows that his date of rank for lieutenant commander is 1 January 67 the only possible conclusion is that his promotion was back dated, which is not an uncommon practice. It is also instructive to note that after his three and a half days "in theater" he took a two month leave to go to the French Riviera before returning to the war.

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RE: Republican debate - 7/4/2007 8:12:42 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

All the analysts are saying that McCain won.

I dont think the voters think so. Personally I think the man is a complete fraud.

Cyberdude611:
Fraud is about the kindest thing one could say about the man. He is a naval academy graduate whose father and grandfather were four star admirals and after ten years in the navy was only a liutenant...he had to become a pow to get promoted. They tried to "frag" him once and damn near sunk the ship in the process.
thompson

My mother made the point that anybody who went into the military for life as an officer and never made to at least Lt. Colonel before retirement should never be left alone with the scissors and paste and without a napkin to wipe up the drool.

She should know, she has had to deal with the ex-military mentally challenged for over 40 years as a aerospace engineer.

Sinergy

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