RE: Defining Our Relationships (Full Version)

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sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 6:02:16 PM)

I notice lately some are trying to be PC by not labeling someone as a sub or slave. I identify as I do and I do not care how others do. Just because I may have a different view or they do it doesn't make it a wrong way. Lately people have been scared to say sub or slave for fear of offending some. We all identify our relationships are own way. Be proud of who you are, however your identify yourself. There will always be buttheads who think their definition is the one "twue" way. Screw them they aren't worth the trouble. Do what is best for you and yours.




Archer -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 6:04:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Is it important for others to be able to define your relationship?  It seems that people are searching for so many thing on so many levels, I don't understand why other people would have such a need to question the "trueness" of someone's involvement of this lifestyle.

Are you a sub or a slave?  Are they looking for a dom or just a controlling man?  You are a slave, and you have limits, then you are a sub, not a slave!  I don't know about everyone else, but it would seem that if it works for the people involved, what difference does it make how others define you? 

Rather than viewing this as so many do as people looking to define you, I rather liken it to a period in which two seperate minds come together and see if the words they use to communicate th ideas they have about how they want to live their lives match up and to come to an agreement of terms. Until you come to an agreement of terms communicating meaning is almost impossible.

I say I'm looking for a slave (and I know pretty much what I mean when I say slave)
However do you know what I mean when I say slave? chances are pretty slim today that my slave and your slave have very different meanings.

That said sure folks when they run into different definitions than their own tend to get pretty ugly about how they express their definitions as the best definition possible and why there is no other defonition that really fits the word as well as theirs does.


I guess this post is part rant, part question.  I have been involved in one way or another for a significant number of years, and during this journey, what I seek has changed and involved as my experiences have changed and evolved.  In my opinion that is completely natural of the human experience as a whole.  I have not always been enjoying the journey, but for the most part, I have learned something from each and every experience.

During my quest, I have become increasingly frustrated with "potential" dominants and masters.  Not the ones who give me the bullshit "you aren't what you say types", but the ones who we have had long conversations, there seems to be an interest and then when I bring up the all important (to me anyway) question of  wanting more detail of THEIR expectations and what they seek, I keep getting evasive, let's play 20 questions types of answers. 

The infamous, "I will respect your limits, but use you as I see fit."  I just asked you about your what YOU are seeking and what YOU want, and you feel this is an appropriate answer?  Certainly it is comforting to know that you claim you will respect my limits, but are you saying that you have no "search parameters" of your own?

I know that I have my "list" and believe that everyone has a "list" of their own, whether it is written down or in their head.  I don't care if you are looking for a master to own you, or a dominant, you SHOULD have a list.  When I get the old, "if you are a true slave, you will have only the limits I, as your Master, set for you" crap, I do, I admit have a tendency, with some, to get pissy.  This is, after all, the SEARCH portion of finding someone.  Before I am going to say that I will give up my free will to YOU, before I say that I am going to live by YOUR rules, I am entitled to know what it is that YOU want.

Let's step out of the lifestyle demands for just a moment.  If I am talking with someone and we are considering each other, and I find out that he is an atheist, we will never go beyond where we are.  I have a very strong belief in God, and it would be ridiculous for me to give myself to someone who doesn't share those views.  I fully understand that when you enter into such a relationship of being owned, I give over my free will to a master.  But I am also not going to give up that free will to someone with whom I don't like, or have common interests in.  It would make no sense and is a recipe for failure.

So that concludes the "rant" portion.  The "question" portion is simple.  Is it really that difficult for some to state clearly what they are looking for?  From my perspective, if a potential master can't answer simple questions about what they are looking for, instead looking for me to read their mind (in the "getting to know you" phase no less), and guess at what they like and dislike, their "prospectiveness" immediately begins to drop for me. 

Slave, submissive, bottom, whatever, I have a list, I know what I seek, and I don't have problems telling people what I am looking for.  When a prospective master, dominant, top, whatever hedges or becomes evasive in telling me what he is looking for, is it so wrong to begin to think, this will never work out?



To answer the second part is simpler than you might expect.
Most of us Dominant men know we want things our way, what we have not often actually formulated is what exactly is OUR WAY. I know it has taken me several years to decide how I want some things done. Some things I decided years ago and those requirements were simple. But overall the number of things I know exactly how I want are far outnumbered by those things I really have not decided how I want done.
And I have been at this for some time now.





jaunty1 -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 6:12:19 PM)

What Archer has said here is so very true.
quote:

  Most of us Dominant men know we want things our way, what we have not often actually formulated is what exactly is OUR WAY

When I first met melissa, all I knew was that I wanted a very specific relationship. As we got to know each other, what I wanted and needed shifted to include what she wanted and needed. Let's face it, if I did not take her wants and needs into account also, I would have no relationship. Not to mention the fact that I simply adore her.
 
In the 4 years that we have been together, my wants, needs and desires have changed. Just as hers have. Nothing remains stagnate; it is constantly evolving. It may be my way; but even I can say that MY WAY changes as we both change and grow.
 
Live well
 
Alex




LafayetteLady -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 11:05:07 PM)

Most of the posts have been VERY helpful to me.  I do want to clarify a couple of things.  These are NOT initial discussions.  I have actually been talking with these men for a long time (a couple of years in fact).  We began talking not even as "potential" on either side, but simply as two people who share a common interest, this lifestyle.  Over time, all of the situations changed, and the discussions have become more of the "is there potential" here nature.

I am talking about the "mental" list we all have of what we seek in a partner.  I most definately do mean that if this person is into things that are considered more "edgy", I think it is important to know, as I believe everyone does. 

As velvetears pointed out, there are many that will say one thing figuring that as time goes on, if the relationship progresses they will introduce it later with the "well, you are my slave now, so you must compy."  I disagree with this mentality completely.  There are some things that just are what they are and aren't going to change.  Some might be "kink", others just normal stuff.  I smoke.  If my smoking is an issue, I want to know about it.  At this time in my life, it is not a behavior that I desire to change.  So if a "potential" says, "well, that is going to stop", then obviously there are compatibility issues.  I always use the term "list" because as velvetears says, we all have our "dealbreakers".  I don't care if they are written on paper or in your head, it qualifies to me as "a list."

crouchingtigress - Your suggestions of being more specific were unbelievably helpful!  In fact, during conversations this evening I took your suggestion and tried it.  Marvelous.  Thank you so much! 

Teachme59 - you made a very good point that I was a little contradictory.  It wasn't meant to be that way.  As for our desires changing, you are very right about that, as I know my desires have changed over the years.  I still have my "never in a million years" types of things that I will not accept as part of the situation, of course.  However, right from the beginning, I have had the never say never type of attitude about a lot of stuff.  I am also very clear when I talk about things.  I don't say that I don't intend to ever quit smoking, but I am clear that at this point in my life, that is a decision I choose to keep for myself.   I don't however, want to find myself in a situation where something I do NOT want as part of my relationship is suddenly thrown in down the road and I am told "tough cookies, I own you, deal with it."  For instance, I realize that poly relationships work for many and many are happy with that situation.  I am not one of them.  I will never be happy in that situation, and I know myself well enough to know that.  So if this is something that someone DOES desire, I am clear that while I may think they are great, it won't work for me.  I passed on someone that I really, truly connected with because he wanted a poly household.  We still talk occasionally, and each time he asks  me to change my mind, but knowing I won't be happy over the long term, I politely pass.  Incidentally, when he and I first met, he told me he WASN'T looking for that type of situation.  Life circumstances kept us apart for a while, but can you imagine if things had progressed and he one day tells me that it is being introduced into our lives?  THAT is what I am trying to avoid.

ParOfDimes - I think I would really like to define myself as a cupcake from now on.  At the moment, the term gives me a warm happy feeling.  Then again, maybe I'm just hungry.

subsnow - I think your final point on them needing to have control of the situation at all times might have hit upon something.  It is a very interesting thought and perhaps quite appropriate to one of the people I was speaking with.  Thanks for the insight.

and finally to Archer - I think that you offered me the most helpful answer. I made a mistake of forgeting that you guys are actually other human beings trying to find your way, too at times. You gave me a "V-8" smack myself in the head moment, thank you. 

Again thanks to all who offered sound advice.  I have put some of it to use already and have found it very helpful.




Wickad -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/31/2007 6:57:45 AM)

(fast reply)

It has been my experience that telling a potential submissive man what I'm interested in leads to him having identical interests.  Later I find that this is obviously not the case.  Rather, this type of manipulation is used by certain 'submissive' men to try and get in my pants (cause after all, kinky woman are all sluts) or to 'have a Mistress' as this is some form of status symbol to them.

For these reasons, I do not tell men what I am seeking when it comes to conversations about compatibility.  I ask them a lot of questions and turn the questions they ask me around on them.  In many ways I 'interrogate' these men to try and find the 'real' motivations behind their actions.  Perhaps this is cynical but in dealing with the large number of men online who 'claim' to be everything I want and then later turn out to be a troll or an HNG, I have found this method to be very revealing.

I do have a list of things I want in a slave - rarely do I articulate this list.

Wickad




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