Defining Our Relationships

Defining Our Relationships (Full Version)

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LafayetteLady -> Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 12:08:53 PM)
Is it important for others to be able to define your relationship? It seems that people are searching for so many thing on so many levels, I don't understand why other people would have such a need to question the "trueness" of someone's involvement of this lifestyle. Are you a sub or a slave? Are they looking for a dom or just a controlling man? You are a slave, and you have limits, then you are a sub, not a slave! I don't know about everyone else, but it would seem that if it works for the people involved, what difference does it make how others define you? I guess this post is part rant, part question. I have been involved in one way or another for a significant number of years, and during this journey, what I seek has changed and involved as my experiences have changed and evolved. In my opinion that is completely natural of the human experience as a whole. I have not always been enjoying the journey, but for the most part, I have learned something from each and every experience. During my quest, I have become increasingly frustrated with "potential" dominants and masters. Not the ones who give me the bullshit "you aren't what you say types", but the ones who we have had long conversations, there seems to be an interest and then when I bring up the all important (to me anyway) question of wanting more detail of THEIR expectations and what they seek, I keep getting evasive, let's play 20 questions types of answers. The infamous, "I will respect your limits, but use you as I see fit." I just asked you about your what YOU are seeking and what YOU want, and you feel this is an appropriate answer? Certainly it is comforting to know that you claim you will respect my limits, but are you saying that you have no "search parameters" of your own? I know that I have my "list" and believe that everyone has a "list" of their own, whether it is written down or in their head. I don't care if you are looking for a master to own you, or a dominant, you SHOULD have a list. When I get the old, "if you are a true slave, you will have only the limits I, as your Master, set for you" crap, I do, I admit have a tendency, with some, to get pissy. This is, after all, the SEARCH portion of finding someone. Before I am going to say that I will give up my free will to YOU, before I say that I am going to live by YOUR rules, I am entitled to know what it is that YOU want. Let's step out of the lifestyle demands for just a moment. If I am talking with someone and we are considering each other, and I find out that he is an atheist, we will never go beyond where we are. I have a very strong belief in God, and it would be ridiculous for me to give myself to someone who doesn't share those views. I fully understand that when you enter into such a relationship of being owned, I give over my free will to a master. But I am also not going to give up that free will to someone with whom I don't like, or have common interests in. It would make no sense and is a recipe for failure. So that concludes the "rant" portion. The "question" portion is simple. Is it really that difficult for some to state clearly what they are looking for? From my perspective, if a potential master can't answer simple questions about what they are looking for, instead looking for me to read their mind (in the "getting to know you" phase no less), and guess at what they like and dislike, their "prospectiveness" immediately begins to drop for me. Slave, submissive, bottom, whatever, I have a list, I know what I seek, and I don't have problems telling people what I am looking for. When a prospective master, dominant, top, whatever hedges or becomes evasive in telling me what he is looking for, is it so wrong to begin to think, this will never work out?

junecleaver -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 12:17:21 PM)
It's wasn't THAT easy for me to describe the person I was looking for, but it wasn't rocket science either. As far as labels, I find them useful in conversation and discussion. In my relationships, I find it confusing because I've always felt somewhere in between the two and couldn't bear to use the phrase 'submissive with a slave heart' so I opted for forming a long description of what I wanted and what I was willing to give.

Celeste43 -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 12:17:38 PM)
They're desperate. They don't want to sound undomly by saying they won't do something you don't like, but they don't want to sound abusive by saying they'll ignore your limits. Doms send out tons of emails and no matter what they say, somebody will dislike it. If they say they're into edge play, they get responses saying he's too extreme. Say you won't go beyond a sub's comfort zone and some sub will tell him that therefore he won't push her to grow. Say you will push her and somebody will claim he breaks limits. Best answer IMO is that specific activities don't do it for you, it's the interaction and the response of the sub you go for. Assuming that's the truth.

darkinshadows -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 12:28:20 PM)
quote: The "question" portion is simple. Is it really that difficult for some to state clearly what they are looking for? .Yes. If someone came up with a list to me, and they have - I would not be interested. But at the same time, I believe no one should settle. Peace

earthycouple -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 12:32:09 PM)
When it comes down to it, as a dominant I search for the following: Honesty, integrity, willingness to learn, want to submit, ability to blend into family life, intelligence, humor, enjoys similar interests, appropriateness around my UMs, friend to my husband, and a want to live 24/7 with me. He has to be willing to grow and learn and submit. IF I get this far into a conversation I already feel like we have some commonality. His list of kinks is not relavant. I am adaptable and if he fits the above characteristics he's adaptable too which means we can work out the lists of kinks in time. I would turn you away if you wanted me to laundry list out my kinks for you. If God is that strong an issue for you, then you need to include that in your search criteria. For me I could care less what his religious orientation is or isn't. My profile/journal clearly states what I require in basic human nature. Kink comes second, every time.

velvetears -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 12:35:35 PM)
From my own experience i tend to get the ones who say - yes i understand these are your needs, limits, expectations and i will respect them .... but as the relationship develops there won't be a need for them as the more you come to trust me the less you will feel the need to have them etc etc and you will evolve into being my slave. WRONG! i tell them politely, but firmly, that i have no desire to "evolve" into a slave - first of all i don't think subs evolve into slaves - you're either a sub or a slave, imo they are very different mindsets and dynamics, they aren't the same thing on some continum where at one end you have sub and the other slave. Many that i have come across have these ideas in mind. Then you get the doms who share who they are, but than after a few weeks they tell you some "fetish" that is of paramount importance to them for a sub to agree to. i'm talking imo very extreme, rather bizarre things. Why not state them up front? Anything i think will be a deal breaker i want to get on the table from day one. Which is why i always ask doms straight out- are you ok with bbw's because i am one. i will ask now if they are a smoker because i was with a smoker dom and found it very unappealing as i do not smoke, so that would be a deal breaker for me as well. Maybe some find it hard simply because they aren't sure of what they are looking for. If someone cannot at least articulate to some degree what they are looking for, then they aren't what i am looking for lol... so there ends that. As for if he hedges or is evasive that would send up a red flag for me - that would indicate perhaps he has something he's hiding.

crouchingtigress -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 12:43:37 PM)
truth is very likely that they dont know the specifics of their expectations and you asking them for them seems like too much work to map it all out on paper ahead of time, and there are some personality types that would find that a deal breaker...you could miss out on a great dom though because he could be a great leader and motivator and not be into planning and paperwork there are many just like that, they trust themselves to navigate when each situation comes up and they dont have a master plan.... you ask a very broad question..they cant be expected to have all the answers important to you for you....i would try this instead: instead of what are your expectations of me? you could try what are you expectations of my role at dinner time? (do i make the dinner? am i allowed at the table?) what are your expectations at bed time ? (do i turn down your covers, warm it, and or sleep on the floor ect) knowing what you want and need will solve a lot of frustration.... PS 20 questions is a great way to learn about a person, i would not discard it, because i cant think of any other strategy to get to know a potential lover then to ask him questions that foster and nurture diolog....

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 12:54:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady Is it really that difficult for some to state clearly what they are looking for? Yes. We are raised in a society that accentuates the superficial drama of every day life (FOX programming at it's finest). We are, in general, not encouraged to explore who we really are. We are, in general, not encouraged to truly follow our bliss. Instead, we are indoctrinated with what we "should" be and what we "should" want. So, it is often a path of struggle to really do introspective work and see what's really inside. Why? Because we are afraid that others (and often God) will not approve...hence we get caught in the trap of "I should do this" and "I should want that." Therefore, many people simply DO NOT KNOW what they want and thus can't state it. Master Fire

CuriousLord -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 1:05:28 PM)
Kind of interesting- only female answers so far. Well, this is a BDSM site, and you are looking for a D/s relationship, but let's step back a moment. You're still a woman looking for a man. Men seem a lot more used to the rejection thing. They go for mass appeal. Not specifics.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 1:24:57 PM)
It's important for myself and who I am in a relationship with to know what we expect from eachother and ourselves. Otherwise...in reality no it's really not that much important at all what we define or identify or state clearly what's going on. When I had 5 committed relationships, trust me, it was a heck of a lot easier just to SEE us all being together rather than try and use words. That being said, getting to what you expect from yourself and others is no walk in the park and it will require a lot of self defining and working things out.

CuriousLord -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 1:32:25 PM)
It does vary, person to person. Still, I'd ask those aspiring to new relationships to consider that there's more than one type of relationship that would work for most people. For some, it's better to keep an open mind and survey the possibilities for a while before setting into one arbitarily. Pretty much my thoughts on your OP, LafayetteLady. Some of the Dom's you've spoken to might be content with many different things, and you're considering who you are so that they could determine how you might best serve them.

szobras -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 1:47:23 PM)
Is it really that difficult for some to state clearly what they are looking for? Perhaps for some. My profile expresses the very basics. Should it strike enough interest for a response, what I am looking for, and open to, more specifically is expressed in during conversation.

Teachme59 -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 2:25:07 PM)
Hello LafayetteLady An interesting post and one I identify with on more than one level. I can’t say I agree exactly but I do struggle with ….”what the heck do I want”. The first part of your post you question why people want to classify and label everything. But then in the second part of your post you demand that they do just that… tell you exactly what they want... which is just another classification and label. I can understand a Dominant’s dilemma when entering a relationship with someone he or she desires. If they come right out and demand this or that they may very well loose you without a chance. But if they ease into a relationship and learn what your desires are they may feel they can change within reason or their limits to keep you. It is a give and take on both sides, at least if it is to become something special. Sometimes I think differences in wants and needs and willingness to accommodate is what makes the great relationships. Otherwise I agree that opposites do attract…and often make for the best match. Now more personal to me... Desires often build in me over a period of days. I think differently at different times during this period. I can guarantee that a list made at the beginning and one made at the end of this period would not match. When I fill with passion I don’t think clearly and what thinking I do is controlled by another part of my body other than my brain. I do have a hard time being analytical and telling someone exactly what I want when that could change according to the person I’m with and how many endorphins are pouring into my body. I often respond best to other people’s passions… something that I would not have on my list... all of a sudden becomes exotic…exciting… and very desirable. When I look at profiles I don’t pay much attention to what people want but I do pay attention to what they don’t want or like. If I think I cannot do without those things then I would not contact them. Other than that I look forward to exploring that person and not their list. Butch

juliaoceania -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 3:31:16 PM)
quote: Is it really that difficult for some to state clearly what they are looking for? Some people do not know what it is that they are looking for. Some people feel that they will change what it is they want to conform to another they desire Still others are not shy at all about what they want... and still others (like my Daddy and me) are letting the relationship and the individuals that we are define where our dynamic takes us.. there were our deal breakers... but as far as the Ds portion... it evolves and changes and I am so very glad there is no set destination that I was "looking" for. As far as our vanilla interests... we share many. We have ample in common in the values department too...

MadRabbit -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 3:38:37 PM)
I could say... "a person who is willing to have an intimate, loving relationship based on service that ranges from domestic to sexual, give up the amount of authority I require, strive towards the goal of obedience without resistance and conform to the standards, wants and needs I present prior to the relationship without attempting to negotiate or say "No" (including the changes that come with my own personal growth later down the line)"... everytime... But I just prefer to just say "slave".

spanklette -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 3:50:57 PM)
I am a fairly articulate person, however, I find it very difficult (bordering on impossible) to have a list of what I want and/or need. It's not all objective to me. I remember in highschool, a girlfriend and I made up a list of what qualities our future husbands must have and what we wanted them to have. We both married men who met all of the requirements and fulfilled most of the desires. Both I and my girlfriend are happily divorced now. Since then, I haven't put much stock into lists. But then again, I've always preferred essay questions to multiple choice or true false. And, meeting someone who I have chemistry with certainly isn't like any exam I've ever taken, ymmv.

jaunty1 -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 3:59:13 PM)
“Is it important for others to be able to define your relationship?” I am not sure exactly what you are asking here. Are you asking if it is important to ME? If that is the case, then the answer is no. It matters very little to me how others view my relationship with melissa. “I don’t understand why other people would have such a need to question the ‘trueness’ of someone’s involvement of this lifestyle” People have been and will always compare/compete (themselves) with others. Who’s the better spouse; who’s the better provider; who’s the better………it goes on. Personally, I perfer to live my own life and not worry about how others are living theirs or if they are up to ‘my standards”. On that same note, what others think about melissa and I has very little bearing on how we live our lives. “Is it really that difficult for some to state clearly what they are looking for?” It’s difficult for most to state clearly what they are looking for in a partner. You can make all the lists you want but in the end, the only thing that will tell you if it’s right or wrong is taking the time to discover each other. You can be with the most compatible person and then a year down the line discover that ‘hey, this was a mistake’. People change over time, no one will ever remain the same as they were the day you first met them. Expectations will change, “lists” will change. It’s a shame that so many seem to lose the beauty of growing with someone; they get so caught up in “writing and recording” everything that will and will not happen that they lose sight of the most important aspect. The absolute beauty of discovering, 10/20/30 years down the line, that the person next to you is the most important decision you ever made. Live well Alex

LadyPaige -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 3:59:25 PM)
I didn't get the impression she was asking him "exactly" what he wanted. She's right, we all have a "list" of what is important to us. To some that list is confined to having the correct genitalia. Not that they'll actually tell you that. Perhaps men aren't as accustomed to defining what it is they're looking for, but surely they have a general idea. Some of your responses sound like they don't need to put as much thought into the relationship they're seeking than the last car they bought.

PairOfDimes -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 5:24:23 PM)
You don't need to use recognized labels or other words to define your identity, or to define the kind of activities you want. If you like getting hit, and you want to call a person who likes getting hit a cupcake, fine. However, communicating clearly is essential to efficiently get what you want, and I don't think you'd get very far toward getting hit if you announced to a play party, "I am a cupcake. Anyone want to help me realize my fantasy of cupcaking?" On the other hand, jargon can also obfuscate one's meaning. I much prefer "I'm looking for a relationship involving heavy SM, intense humiliation, and an overall sense of detachment and emotional distance," to "I am a slave to be used hard as you wish, Mistress." It is irritating when a person stumbles over expressing what he or she wants. I generally will prod further once or twice, ("I understand that you want to feel like you're not in control. Can you tell me what might make you feel that way?") but if I don't get any further in any direction, I'm likely to not continue the conversation--clearly, as the man said, what we have here is a failure to communicate. I realize that it's sometimes difficult, for any number of reasons, to write out your sexual and relational desires, but telling a prospective partner what you want gives you at least a fighting chance at getting those desires fulfilled. As for having limits and criteria--yeah, it's not entirely submissive and passive to have requirements, but it's entirely okay to not be entirely submissive and passive, and it's not horribly unattractive. (Would it be nice if the rest of the world sincerely and effectively dedicated itself to doing my bidding? You bet! But it doesn't work that way, and I think we all have figured that out by the time we have passed age five.) You get to set up the rules you want in your relationship, and you should have some idea of the kind of relationship you want. Of course, that doesn't mean anyone has to have that particular relationship with you, but that's a whole separate thread.

subsnow -> RE: Defining Our Relationships (5/30/2007 5:41:38 PM)
i think there are two possible things going on when a person is being evasive. Either they don't really know what they want or they are planning on changing what they want based on what they find out about you. Usually this is because they're desperate or have low self esteem and just want to be accepted by someone. i used to do that. i wouldn't let people know much about me until i got to know them first. This way i was able to tailor who i was to the individual so that they would like me. i've learned since then that it doesn't work that way. Your true self will eventually show through and you don't want to be with someone who won't like you for who you are. i would be careful with people who don't let you know what they want. It's impossible to please someone if you don't know what they want. Edited to add: i also think that some Doms might feel like you are taking control of the situation by probing for information about them. Obviously this isn't the case but i've met a lot of Doms who wouldn't tell me about Them until THEY wanted to. This way They were always in control of the situation.

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