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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 7:53:46 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

This is probably one reason why Mexico City is never on anyone's list to host global events. The place is a dump. Crime is astronomical. Police are corrupt. And the people are rude.
Of course the people there claim it is America's fault Mexico doesn't get a chance to get on the world stage.


That sounds like NY in the 1970s

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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 8:00:00 AM   
NorthernGent


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selfbnd11, I know you have some quality programmes over there such as Democracy Now, and there must be a significant market for them to exist. It's fair to say, also, that being programmed for the consumer society is a Western phenomenon - it's alive and well outside of the US.

I've looked it up, it's there in black and white, and I still don't understand.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 8:14:28 AM   
pahunkboy


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crowd psychology:

my ex told me of this. downtown Chicago- a man was on top of a highrise- wanted to commit suicide the people on the street chanted "jump" JUMP jump-

in the end- the men jumped ot his death.

crowd psychology is a science all onto itslelf. the beast has an easy out to take the low road- that same beast would be in tears of the situation was in reverse.

How many Mexicans wanted to get on that stage and HUG the poor girl????

we will never know.

ill conclude by saying good fences make good neighbors.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 8:19:02 AM   
CrimsonMoan


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Ok another sound bite and this may be the other reason for the boos. There was a protest outside that day.

quote:

Hours before the pageant began, dozens of protesters held a mock ceremony in downtown Mexico City that featured "Miss Marijuana," "Miss Sexual Health" and "Miss Human Rights" and other candidates with obscenities written across their sashes. The group yelled "Neither ugly nor beautiful, should a woman be considered an object!"


But hey it could have all been political and to show their distaste for Americans but then look at this

quote:

Smith, whose chances may have been dimmed by her fall, was booed during her interview and several audience members chanted "Mexico! Mexico!" until she spoke in Spanish, saying "Buenas noches Mexico. Muchas gracias!" which earned her applause. Mexico has a fierce rivalry with its northern neighbor.


I'm soryr but you don't applaud someone just because they speak the language . They would have kept going. Just my 2 cents on the situation. Personally I HATE beauty pagents. I think they are rediculous and serve no real purpose. Despite what Trump and the pagent commitee say this is about LOOKS more than brains. If it wasn't change the name, get rid of the swimsuit portion and get some average women up there on stage.

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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 8:32:07 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

This is probably one reason why Mexico City is never on anyone's list to host global events. The place is a dump. Crime is astronomical. Police are corrupt. And the people are rude.
Of course the people there claim it is America's fault Mexico doesn't get a chance to get on the world stage.


That sounds like NY in the 1970s


Mexico itslef was at onetime a world power.

"yankee go home" we her as tourists. ok- where is home.

Mexico could be a showcase country. unfortionly the very rich keep the masses in squalor.

fix your own back yard before you complain about someone elses back yard!

PS- foriegners can not own MX oceanfront coastline.  talk about a double standard.

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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 10:59:34 AM   
cyberdude611


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Did you also hear that Sweeden pulled out Miss Sweeden in the middle of the show because they thought beauty pagents exploit women. I mean why did they even send her then? It seems that was a bit calculated to get some press.

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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 11:06:04 AM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrimsonMoan

Ok another sound bite and this may be the other reason for the boos. There was a protest outside that day.

quote:

Hours before the pageant began, dozens of protesters held a mock ceremony in downtown Mexico City that featured "Miss Marijuana," "Miss Sexual Health" and "Miss Human Rights" and other candidates with obscenities written across their sashes. The group yelled "Neither ugly nor beautiful, should a woman be considered an object!"


But hey it could have all been political and to show their distaste for Americans but then look at this

quote:

Smith, whose chances may have been dimmed by her fall, was booed during her interview and several audience members chanted "Mexico! Mexico!" until she spoke in Spanish, saying "Buenas noches Mexico. Muchas gracias!" which earned her applause. Mexico has a fierce rivalry with its northern neighbor.


I'm soryr but you don't applaud someone just because they speak the language . They would have kept going. Just my 2 cents on the situation. Personally I HATE beauty pagents. I think they are rediculous and serve no real purpose. Despite what Trump and the pagent commitee say this is about LOOKS more than brains. If it wasn't change the name, get rid of the swimsuit portion and get some average women up there on stage.



The organizers told contestants that they would have to speak in Spanish if they wanted to win over the crowd.

That pretty much explains why Mexicans refuse to learn English when they jump the border into the US.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 11:09:50 AM   
PapiNsweet


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i actually enjoy the Miss Universe pageant, i watched it monday night, it's the only pageant i would ever watch. it's nice to see women from all over the world proudly representing their countries. this year, for the first time in the competition's history, they changed one of their outdated, racist rules regarding hair type and style, and permitted both a both a bald and a dreadlocked (two extremely common hair "styles" among black women, and often symbols of pride and cultural heritage, especially in africa and the west indies) woman to enter the pageant. the bald woman, Flaviana Matata from Tanzania, actually made it to the top 15, so i was very proud of that.

as for Miss USA, i very rarely root for Miss USA anyway as she's usually  not a woman of color, however the chick who was running this year was particularly awful, the only reason she made it as far as she did was because she was from the USA...and i'm sure that fact was not lost on the Mexican fans who booed her repeatedly...heck i was booing her myself. and i laughed for about 10 minutes straight when she fell on her bum, made me wish i had rewind so i could watch it over and over again.


-daddysprop247

< Message edited by PapiNsweet -- 5/30/2007 11:10:32 AM >

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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 11:29:31 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
Did you also hear that Sweden pulled out Miss Sweden in the middle of the show because they thought beauty pageants exploit women. I mean why did they even send her then? It seems that was a bit calculated to get some press.


When I first heard this story it was 'teased' by the morning news team. They said that a Country had called back their contestant from the pageant and you needed to wait through the commercial to hear which country it was.

I thought it would be some secular religious country, or a dictatorship, or hell - I wouldn't be surprised if the US religious "right" called for the US contestant to be withdrawn. I was stunned that it was Sweden, that bastion of liberty and expression, famed for WWII neutrality, home of Greta Garbo, 'Bond Girl' Britt Ekland, and all things liberal. Amazing that they share common ground with the religious zealots who seek the same goal, albeit with different motivation.

If "exploitation" is a reason, why not apply the same to athletes exploited for their muscle and skill? How about the exploitation of the intelligent or anyone with a greater ability than the next person to do anything?

I always thought the goal of feminism was to provide equal opportunity for both genders to do whatever they want without prejudice or judgment. The ability to exploit themselves should be included in that ability shouldn't it? I've not been to Sweden, but do they have any 'adult' entertainment equivalent to what in the US would be called, 'Gentleman's Clubs' featured nude and/or topless dancers? If so, is the person who books the 'talent' required to be blind or pick out dancers sight unseen?

quote:

Isabel Lestapier Winqvist, 20, has dropped out because Swedes say the Miss Universe competition, airing live Monday night from Mexico City's National Auditorium, is degrading to women and weighed down by scandals.
Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070525/ap_en_ot/miss_universe 

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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 11:29:52 AM   
merrysbrat


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as for Miss USA, i very rarely root for Miss USA anyway as she's usually  not a woman of color


Well then that makes you racist, now doesn't it?  How can you complain about them having outdated, racist rules?


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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 11:33:18 AM   
Vendaval


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General reply about Mexicans learning English -
 
Millions of workers cross the border every year both legally and illegally.
Many of them work and return home on a seasonal basis, some stay for long
periods of time. 
 
Many do want to become US citizens and assimilate.
 
Take a look around at your local Adult Education and Community College
ESL (English as a Second Language) programs.  They are full, especially on
nights, with people who work 1-2 jobs, raise their families and learn English
as adults.  The children learn English in the public school system.
 
An extra disadvantage for many of the Mexican workers is that they have minimal
education in Spanish and many speak Indigenous languages primarily.
 
I live in a agricultural area where the debates about immigration and ESL
are very immediate and relevant to everyday life.  The underlying issues
of population pressures and poverty are not going to be eliminated anytime
soon.  We need to have a real understanding of the many sides of these
issues to make wise, informed decisions.  A key problem in these issues
is that the US policy on immigration and seasonal workers from Mexico
changes because of economics, war and politics.  For a starting point see
Wikipedia - "Bracero Program"
 
 
" The Bracero Program was originally a binational temporary contract labor program initiated, in August 1942, by an exchange of diplomatic notes between the United States and Mexico after a series of negotiations. Bracero is Spanish for 'unskilled laborer'. The program was designed initially to bring a few hundred experienced Mexican agricultural laborers to harvest sugar beets in the Stockton, California area but soon spread to cover most of the United States to provide much needed farm workers to agriculture labor market. As an important corollary, the railroad bracero program was independently negotiated to supply U.S. railroads initially with unskilled workers for track maintenance but eventually to cover other unskilled and skilled labor. By 1945, the quota for the agricultural program was more than 50,000 braceros to be employed in U.S. agriculture at any one time, and for the railroad program 75,000.

The railroad program ended promptly with the conclusion of World War II, in 1945, but the agricultural program under various forms survived until 1964, when the two governments ended it as a response to harsh criticisms and reports of human rights abuses. The program made a large contribution to U.S. agriculture, leading to the advent of mechanized farming. However the program, for the most part from a humanitarian standpoint, was deemed a complete and utter failure.[citation needed]

The workers who participated in the Bracero Program have generated significant local and international struggles challenging the US government and Mexican government to identify and return deductions taken from their pay, from 1942 to 1948, for savings accounts which they were legally guaranteed to receive upon their return to Mexico at the conclusion of their contracts. Many, if not most, never received their savings. However, lawsuits presented in federal courts in California, in the late 1990s and early 2000s, highlighted the substandard conditions and documented the ultimate destiny of the savings accounts deductions, but the suit was thrown out because the Mexican banks in question never operated in the United States. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program


 
 
 
 

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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 12:19:20 PM   
PapiNsweet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: merrysbrat

as for Miss USA, i very rarely root for Miss USA anyway as she's usually  not a woman of color


Well then that makes you racist, now doesn't it?  How can you complain about them having outdated, racist rules?




how on earth does that make me a racist? i have nothing against any particular race, however as a woman of color myself racial issues matter to me. the fact is that the pageant system in general has a long history of systematic racism, and even in 2007 a black woman does not stand on equal footing with a white or even latina or asian woman in these pageants. even on the rare occasion that a black woman reaches the top level or even wins in any of these pageants, she fits the western standard of beauty moreso than her own cultural standard. so until such ideas change and we live in a perfect world where all standards of beauty are accepted and respected equally, then i will continue to root for the most beautiful, articulate, black contestant, whatever land she may hail from. this is not racism but rather self-pride.

-daddysprop247

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 12:36:44 PM   
merrysbrat


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From: Minnesooootah
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So if I start to refuse to cheer for any black woman in any competition, simply because she is black, I could mask this as self-pride? I could only cheer on white women, because 'racial issues matter to me'? Because to me, that would be racism, it's racist if a white person does it, it's racist if an african american person does it. 

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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 2:11:41 PM   
PapiNsweet


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Joined: 10/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: merrysbrat

So if I start to refuse to cheer for any black woman in any competition, simply because she is black, I could mask this as self-pride? I could only cheer on white women, because 'racial issues matter to me'? Because to me, that would be racism, it's racist if a white person does it, it's racist if an african american person does it. 


you missed my point entirely. i will cheer for a black woman in a pageant over any caucasian woman because the pageant system itself is racist and black women still have a very long way to go before they are considered and treated as equals. as i said, if all standards were truly equal, then i'd simply root for whichever contestant i liked the most. however that day has not yet come.


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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 4:02:30 PM   
Dtesmoac


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"Respect for the flag and anthem" - many countries do not have the illogical love affair drilled into them about flags and anthems that occurs in the US from a very early age. example - sex pistols version of god save the queen and the Union Flag boxer shorts about sums up most modern Brits opinion of flags and anthems.

Mexico (Spanish) treatment of  matives................. 6.7 million North American Natives exterminated...... !!  Glass houses. ?


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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 4:08:26 PM   
Dtesmoac


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Booing of anthems at sproitn events and other nationalistic occasions, whilst rude should hardly be considered a grievous offence. Is it any suprise that there is ill will towards the US from Mexico. For some it is friendly rivalry for other a genuine dislike / hatred. It occurs between many other nations - Scots and English, French and British, England v Germany, Argentina v Brazil, ............. there is hissing, booing of the anthems.

Get over it and find something improtant to be upset by......

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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 4:26:17 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

"Respect for the flag and anthem" - many countries do not have the illogical love affair drilled into them about flags and anthems that occurs in the US from a very early age. example - sex pistols version of god save the queen and the Union Flag boxer shorts about sums up most modern Brits opinion of flags and anthems.

Mexico (Spanish) treatment of  matives................. 6.7 million North American Natives exterminated...... !!  Glass houses. ?



You all do realize that the theme to Monty Python's Flying Circus is the Peruvian National Anthem.

A coincidence?  I think not.

Sinergy

p.s.  When I was a kid some Peruvian won the gold, and as the presented him with the medal, MPFC's theme swelled in the background.  Later I learned the anthem is played when the medal is presented.

p.p.s.  Will we have to nuke India when their version of Benny Hill in Bollywood comes on playing the US anthem?

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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 4:33:57 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

I just find it funny because if you read accurate history, today's Mexicans are actually from Spain in the 1500s. They slaughtered the Aztecs and stole the land and wealth from them. So going from their philosophy, its not their land either.


......am i the only person to see the irony in a citizen of the modern USA denouncing the current residents of another country as having stolen the land from the natives?
Perhaps they weren't Mexican, maybe they were all Apache........

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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 4:37:38 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

I just find it funny because if you read accurate history, today's Mexicans are actually from Spain in the 1500s. They slaughtered the Aztecs and stole the land and wealth from them. So going from their philosophy, its not their land either.


......am i the only person to see the irony in a citizen of the modern USA denouncing the current residents of another country as having stolen the land from the natives?
Perhaps they weren't Mexican, maybe they were all Apache........


Of course, the Anasazi crossed the ice bridge something like 25,000 years ago and slaughtered most of the large animal species in the Americas.

So the irony of the descendants of the Meztiso complaining about Spain killing all of them has a certain weird irony about it as well.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Mexicans boo Miss USA - 5/30/2007 4:39:05 PM   
philosophy


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Damn Sinergy......it's all getting very ironic

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Profile   Post #: 40
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