Metal Stuff

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Metal Stuff

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Metal Stuff

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Metal Stuff - 5/18/2007 7:24:38 PM

NeedAGoodBoy

Posts: 13
Joined: 1/21/2007
Status: offline

Ive got a qeustion for anyone out there really. I want to learn to work, bend, cut, and weld metal, but if i want to take the class in my college, i have to take 3 other classes to get to it! does anyone know a cheap/free way to get some knowhow on metal working? someone here willing to teach me? ive always wanted to be able to make things, also i want to make BDSM things, collars, cages, structures and wahtnot, but i dont want to spend over a year in classes just to learn to work metal. im not looking to design anything uber special, or learn the design of something, just how to work it and weld it and bend it. any ideas?

Post #: 1

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/18/2007 8:22:01 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Nothing you want to take the short cut route more on than things heated up to hundreds or thousands of degres which need to withstand high levels of weight and pressure which can shatter into very sharp pieces of shrapnel.

Until you're willing to put the work into things, stick to construction paper and tin foil.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 5/18/2007 8:33:37 PM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to NeedAGoodBoy)

Post #: 2

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/18/2007 8:53:41 PM

zindyslave

Posts: 601
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline

If you are in the US many states have technology schools and they have welding classes, they are realitively cheap and you get the best teaching possible and you could possibly get a job working with the same thing. It is a plus anyway. I went to a Technology school they are also called vocational schools, you would have to take some math classes but how long you stay in that class is based on what you need to learn and the way our school was set up you went to the welding class for a while and then went to your math class then went back to the welding class. If I were interested in doing something like that, it is what I would do, just because someone else knows how to do it, doesn't mean they can teach you how to do it. IMO it would be best to take a class.

_____________________________

http://www.myspace.com/zindygirl

Only when you see the invisible can you do the impossible.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 3

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/18/2007 9:19:48 PM

petdave

Posts: 2479
Status: offline

There are a lot of different techniques involved... wire-feed welding is much different than torch welding, which is completely different than casting, which has nothing to do with sheetmetal forming. Each one is a trade, and in many ways an art, in its own right. You need different equipment to bend round tube stock than square tube stock, both of which are different from flat stock, which is different than sheet (which requires different tools and/or techniques to cut). Then there's mild steel vs. stainless vs. aluminum vs. copper/brass/etc, and you can get into machining with a mill or lathe, which are quite different than all of the above... and then there's blacksmithing...

There's an online group called MetalMeet, which holds more or less open sessions to share knowledge about metalwork, but they're more focused on forming. Still, if there is a group near you, they have a LOT of knowledge to share. They are, however, primarily car hobbyists and other tinkerers, so you would need to be circumspect (lie) about what you're trying to build.

If there are no vocational/technical schools in your area, i would suggest calling up a welding supply shop and see if they can refer you to any classes nearby. They may even sponsor some.

For building gear for your own use, you can practically buy a 110V-powered wire-feed welder, an introductory book on welding, an angle grinder and a bunch of scrap metal, and refine your technique through trial-and-error. It's not an easy thing to master, but it's pretty easy to get "good enough" at if you've got a steady hand.

Design is another story... you mention building "structures"... if you want to fabricate, say, a suspension frame, you either need to take the time to learn the engineering, or overbuild the hell out of it (personally, i like option B). There aren't a lot of plans out there for metal BDSM gear the way there are for leather... if you want something, you're going to have to figure out how to make it. IMO, the only "shortcut" to that is having an innate knack for figuring out how things work, and you've either got it or you don't.

i'd suggest figuring out what you most want to build, and ask about it in the bondage gear forum... i may be able to help with some stuff, and there may be others here as well.

Good luck,

...dave

< Message edited by petdave -- 5/18/2007 9:58:05 PM >

(in reply to zindyslave)

Post #: 4

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/18/2007 9:27:52 PM

moki1984

Posts: 274
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline

to be quite honest..and I may be wrong. it sounds like you want to take the easiest route possible to achieve some goal at which you are underestimating its prerequisites. Those classes before hand are their for good reasons...why do you say o hi dont want to make anything special. are you that lazy?if you want this...if you truly desire to know how t perform this....than do what is necesary to truly learn it, or burn your fucking finger off trying. if you take those classes and become proficient at this..you will be happy you did later on in life. if you dont...i gather you will say one day, "i wish i would of"

(in reply to NeedAGoodBoy)

Post #: 5

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/18/2007 9:37:12 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Take the metal working classes offerd in the Art department, they don't tack on as much BS.

(in reply to moki1984)

Post #: 6

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/18/2007 9:48:41 PM

szobras

Posts: 435
Joined: 9/18/2006
Status: offline

It is not difficult to find someone willing to show you what they do, so you can work with a medium. It is another to find willingness in oneself to follow a path of dedication to become a craftsman. If you are serious, you may try finding someone open to sharing thier knowledge and skill for volunteering your time and labor. Most that would have interest in teaching you to a competent level for your goals will be a crafstsman, a skilled tradesman. and at least convey the understanding of what is required to attain the level of skill you seek. Otherwise. Take the classes if available.

< Message edited by szobras -- 5/18/2007 9:51:38 PM >

(in reply to NeedAGoodBoy)

Post #: 7

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/18/2007 9:49:51 PM

bigskycountry

Posts: 43
Joined: 4/19/2007
From: montana
Status: offline

Considering the fact that an "easy to use" basic 20A 120VAC M.I.G. welder (the only thing that will allow you to safely weld beveled 3/8" bar stock or beveled 3/16 plate) will set you back $700 (not including $400+ for the tank (FUCK flux-core) and wire and leathers and dozens of pairs of gloves and tip cleaner and tip reamers and the dozens of tips you're going to seize and a helmet and a respirator and an angle grinder and wire wheels and soapstone or scribes and and and...), you might consider a standard stick welder ($200 or less for the above power requirements). Which you will need years of practice with and hundreds of feet of rod and leathers and a helmet and a better respirator and an angle grinder with far more wire wheels and and and...
Or maybe you just want to go the gas route...
Again, over $700 bucks for:
regulator
hose
tips (you'll need a few different ones, of which you'll blow out many of them while you get used to how it works)
tanks (oxygen and acetylene, which you'll burn through like gangbusters as you practice).
leathers
shade 5 goggles
hundreds of feet of brazing wire
flux
clamps
and and and

You will be limited to mild steel. This is a material which will need to be heavily cleaned prior to prolonged contact. Lacquer thinner and then wirebrushed or sandblasted and then coated with a non-toxic primer and then the topcoat.

Maybe you could do stainless instead?

T.I.G. welding!
Forget it. Even with all my time welding steel, I am still a barely passable T.I.G. welder. That and the machines run into the thousands with gas and electrodes and wire and...

Forging (working) steel takes more years than it seems you want to invest. Cherry red versus deep red versus orange versus low yellow versus...
It all takes training and learning. Welding is a trade, it is not a hobby. A 6000 degree electrical arc polarized to draw the introduced material at a certain speed towards the parent materials and a tactile understanding of the factors inherent for this union to occur while keeping in mind one's own safety and health is compounded by the consideration of the structure, its purpose, and its loadlimit parameters.

So, um, take the classes. This isn't like screwing together a bunch of two-by-fours from home depot.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 8

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/18/2007 10:12:16 PM

MissDiandSirHugh

Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/11/2005
From: Goondiwindi ( Qld )
Status: offline

Short Cuts and side ways dodging to make things on the cheep can when being used either led to injury or hurt even death.ot last for one full project let alone the next but after outlaying both tiem and expesoure .
Well not knowing the educational way in America on subjects You ask about but here to do the things You wish to and to do them with both safety and be component at them it is best to do classes and there are different ones to do as Metal Working is a very different subject to Welding and each is not just an hour or two of watching some one do these things and let you do them in that short time.
Also if You wish to make other things there is also woodworking .
If You wish to make things like collars and maybe even cuffs then they would in Our minds be made of either Stainless Steel or even Surgical Steel which is much more complicated and much more expensive to weld and not something anyone with a home welder can do due to the need for a special welder or Oxy-Acetylene set up for this sort of work and metal.
In making the cages and what ever else You wish to make you still need some plan or design to go by and what to do to make certain parts work as You want them to even just the size of a cage and its basic frame needs a design or what’s the use of spending lots of time making it then finding out the only thing that will fit in it is a bantam chook.
To keep making these things it to can be expensive to purchase the tools needed as the inexpensive ones often do not last for one full project let alone the next but after outlaying both time in learning the subjects and the outlay of money in getting good tools the final finished object is a pleasure to see and indeed something special to use at any but as bigskycountry has said you are looking at big money in every way.

_____________________________

HoRoo for now from Us both and enjoy all you read even if you don"t agree with us or others.
Knowledge is no Burden to Carry

(in reply to bigskycountry)

Post #: 9

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/18/2007 10:42:18 PM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedAGoodBoy

Ive got a qeustion for anyone out there really. I want to learn to work, bend, cut, and weld metal, but if i want to take the class in my college, i have to take 3 other classes to get to it! does anyone know a cheap/free way to get some knowhow on metal working?

Check out the offerings at your local community college. Many offer non-credit courses in welding and metalworking for a fraction of the cost of other programs and are basically open study classes once they get the safety and basic training out of the way. It's about the cheapest and easiest way to get your feet wet there is.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to NeedAGoodBoy)

Post #: 10

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/18/2007 10:51:08 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

Stef to the rescue!....Christ!! All the guy wants to do is get his feet wet and to learn something about a new craft.....It's not like he's trying to make a dirty bomb....You aren't trying to make a dirty bomb are you?

_____________________________

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 11

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/18/2007 11:28:06 PM

earthycouple

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigskycountry

Considering the fact that an "easy to use" basic 20A 120VAC M.I.G. welder (the only thing that will allow you to safely weld beveled 3/8" bar stock or beveled 3/16 plate) will set you back $700 (not including $400+ for the tank (FUCK flux-core) and wire and leathers and dozens of pairs of gloves and tip cleaner and tip reamers and the dozens of tips you're going to seize and a helmet and a respirator and an angle grinder and wire wheels and soapstone or scribes and and and...), you might consider a standard stick welder ($200 or less for the above power requirements). Which you will need years of practice with and hundreds of feet of rod and leathers and a helmet and a better respirator and an angle grinder with far more wire wheels and and and...
Or maybe you just want to go the gas route...
Again, over $700 bucks for:
regulator
hose
tips (you'll need a few different ones, of which you'll blow out many of them while you get used to how it works)
tanks (oxygen and acetylene, which you'll burn through like gangbusters as you practice).
leathers
shade 5 goggles
hundreds of feet of brazing wire
flux
clamps
and and and

You will be limited to mild steel. This is a material which will need to be heavily cleaned prior to prolonged contact. Lacquer thinner and then wirebrushed or sandblasted and then coated with a non-toxic primer and then the topcoat.

Maybe you could do stainless instead?

T.I.G. welding!
Forget it. Even with all my time welding steel, I am still a barely passable T.I.G. welder. That and the machines run into the thousands with gas and electrodes and wire and...

Forging (working) steel takes more years than it seems you want to invest. Cherry red versus deep red versus orange versus low yellow versus...
It all takes training and learning. Welding is a trade, it is not a hobby. A 6000 degree electrical arc polarized to draw the introduced material at a certain speed towards the parent materials and a tactile understanding of the factors inherent for this union to occur while keeping in mind one's own safety and health is compounded by the consideration of the structure, its purpose, and its loadlimit parameters.

So, um, take the classes. This isn't like screwing together a bunch of two-by-fours from home depot.

Um....*S* I have no idea what he just said....but it sounds like sage advice...I suppose spot soldering in shop class when I was 15 years old doesn't count as "knowing something" *S*

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to bigskycountry)

Post #: 12

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/18/2007 11:42:36 PM

bigskycountry

Posts: 43
Joined: 4/19/2007
From: montana
Status: offline

He's adverse to taking three classes. He spoke about making cages and structures. Constructions that will be subjected to an applied load. He doesn't want to "spend over a year in classes" and wants to make structures.
I chose the in-depth approach to illustrate the complexity of this pursuit and the need for either experience or formal education. From burns to what OSHA calls "metal fume fever" for his part, to untreated steel allergy and improper cool-down leading to fatigue or weakening due to deformation from overheating ...it's not a matter of getting one's feet wet with the varieties (the original "feet wet" comment almost caused me to point out the irony of it regarding the desire to learn the easiest (electrical) welding technique...), it's a matter of taking the prerequisites in order to understand the specific myriad concerns one will have to consider when they employ whatever technique is best for the desired product. Be it MIG or TIG or stick or spot or heliarc or induction or brazing or DC reverse or carbon rod or or or...forging and bending! Massive blast furnaces that need to be constantly monitored, specific temperatures measured by trial and error based upon minute gradations of color based on experience to determine how the metal should be quenched to insure it is neither brittle or annealed (too malleable) after it has been shaped. Hell, make a set of manacles, it should be fine if you know the basics of the process and the personal safety. Save the cages and structures until after you can consitintly proof-test your welds (occupational *daily* usage will allow that within a year). Steelwork is not basketweaving.

Edit: by all means do it. But realize it is not something you can pencilwhip or just jump into and hit the ground running.

< Message edited by bigskycountry -- 5/18/2007 11:51:53 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 13

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/19/2007 7:04:03 AM

MercTech

Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedAGoodBoy

Ive got a qeustion for anyone out there really. I want to learn to work, bend, cut, and weld metal, but if i want to take the class in my college, i have to take 3 other classes to get to it! does anyone know a cheap/free way to get some knowhow on metal working? someone here willing to teach me? ive always wanted to be able to make things, also i want to make BDSM things, collars, cages, structures and wahtnot, but i dont want to spend over a year in classes just to learn to work metal. im not looking to design anything uber special, or learn the design of something, just how to work it and weld it and bend it. any ideas?

A thought

Find your local group in the Society for Creative Anachronism. Find a decent armorer. Ask to apprentice to him or her.
A whole lot of the skillset for making armor should cross over to what you are doing. Heck, what is a gorget but a collar without attachment rings.

Stefan

(in reply to NeedAGoodBoy)

Post #: 14

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/19/2007 7:15:29 AM

petdave

Posts: 2479
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigskycountry
Massive blast furnaces that need to be constantly monitored, specific temperatures measured by trial and error based upon minute gradations of color based on experience to determine how the metal should be quenched to insure it is neither brittle or annealed (too malleable) after it has been shaped.

So you're saying i shouldn't have bought all of those multi-ton crucibles when Georgetown Steel shut down?

Crap. We got any cannibal fetishists on the board?

i understand where you're coming from, but there isn't a lot of BDSM gear where metal embrittlement is a major concern... We're not talking about building aircraft engines or automobile suspension components here. If you have common sense and RTFM, you're not going to blow up your neighborhood with a consumer welding rig or a chop saw. i just think the OP needs a better concept of where he's going before anyone can tell him how to get there.

Happy weekend,

...dave

(in reply to bigskycountry)

Post #: 15

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/19/2007 7:18:26 AM

earthycouple

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigskycountry

He's adverse to taking three classes. He spoke about making cages and structures. Constructions that will be subjected to an applied load. He doesn't want to "spend over a year in classes" and wants to make structures.
I chose the in-depth approach to illustrate the complexity of this pursuit and the need for either experience or formal education. From burns to what OSHA calls "metal fume fever" for his part, to untreated steel allergy and improper cool-down leading to fatigue or weakening due to deformation from overheating ...it's not a matter of getting one's feet wet with the varieties (the original "feet wet" comment almost caused me to point out the irony of it regarding the desire to learn the easiest (electrical) welding technique...), it's a matter of taking the prerequisites in order to understand the specific myriad concerns one will have to consider when they employ whatever technique is best for the desired product. Be it MIG or TIG or stick or spot or heliarc or induction or brazing or DC reverse or carbon rod or or or...forging and bending! Massive blast furnaces that need to be constantly monitored, specific temperatures measured by trial and error based upon minute gradations of color based on experience to determine how the metal should be quenched to insure it is neither brittle or annealed (too malleable) after it has been shaped. Hell, make a set of manacles, it should be fine if you know the basics of the process and the personal safety. Save the cages and structures until after you can consitintly proof-test your welds (occupational *daily* usage will allow that within a year). Steelwork is not basketweaving.

Edit: by all means do it. But realize it is not something you can pencilwhip or just jump into and hit the ground running.

Thanks for your further reply. I did realize immediately your plan in your post...and thought I was being "cute" apparently I failed miserably because you didn't find my joke about soldering funny. hum...will try again next time *S*

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to bigskycountry)

Post #: 16

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/19/2007 7:33:17 AM

BeatMeDaily

Posts: 99
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedAGoodBoy

Ive got a qeustion for anyone out there really. I want to learn to work, bend, cut, and weld metal, but if i want to take the class in my college, i have to take 3 other classes to get to it! does anyone know a cheap/free way to get some knowhow on metal working? someone here willing to teach me? ive always wanted to be able to make things, also i want to make BDSM things, collars, cages, structures and wahtnot, but i dont want to spend over a year in classes just to learn to work metal. im not looking to design anything uber special, or learn the design of something, just how to work it and weld it and bend it. any ideas?

yes, go get a decent MIG welder and some scrap steel and start practicing. It takes a while to learn
how to run a good bead. Get a book or two and read them. You have to learn about heat stress and
cold joints, both will fail with a load on them. Since you're not welding the space shuttle dont' worry
about certifications, but do worry about safety and good welds. I've used act/oygen, plasma cutters,
MIG and stick, no big deal really. The trick is learning wire speed and voltage setting, higher power works
bettter than low, wire speed about 4-5/10 for light metal. Everyone says to turn down the wattage, but
the welds will splatter, higher watts melts it faster without distempering surrounding steel.
I make cages out of recycled stuff, like Burlington Coat factory
racks, made a beautiful round cage, and some old baby cribs froma hospital, these were very old
and heavy steeel, made an unusual cage with those. Have some fun and weld some.
I'd be glad to help, talk or assist, just ask.
I started out in high school as a goldsmith using a small torch, act/oxy, repairing, resetting jewelry,
a "benchman" actually at a local jewelry store. But I've always been able to do anything I wanted
to, no matter if I've done it before or not. The secret? research !

_____________________________

It takes all kinds of critters to make Uncle Ben's fritters.

(in reply to NeedAGoodBoy)

Post #: 17

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/19/2007 7:37:51 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

A thought

Find your local group in the Society for Creative Anachronism. Find a decent armorer. Ask to apprentice to him or her.
A whole lot of the skillset for making armor should cross over to what you are doing. Heck, what is a gorget but a collar without attachment rings.

Larger SCA groups and events have metalsmithing classes aimed at getting people past the perception that metalworking requires a lot of modern equipment. You can learn to make your own backyard forge, among other things.

(in reply to MercTech)

Post #: 18

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/19/2007 7:54:30 AM

Copulo

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

I don’t think this is so much cutting corners as getting to the bits he needs to know and understand about.

My partner started off as a fabricator and later went on to become a blacksmith. He learnt a lot of things on the way that He has absolutely no use for and I am not talking about the safety aspects.

At this moment in time he is learning more about metal sculpting but to get to the bit he really needs to know about, he has to go through all the modules that he already learnt and put into practice years ago. Unfortunately that’s how university and college courses work.

If you can pay an individual fro private lessons then all the better. It saves time and often works out less expensive.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 19

RE: Metal Stuff - 5/19/2007 3:14:03 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

Bummer - I've got "the lot" right here and am quite happy to help out the mates and neighbours when they want something welded or fabricated etc. But you have this small problem of being half a planet away....

So you probably don't really wanna know what my devious side has concocted with steel and imagination (such as probably the World's only purpose-built adjustible and foldup A frame), ay? lol Seriously, while it's true I did an apprenticeship at the local steel mill and currently work in heavy engineering, you can still get some basic gear together and learn a lot from simply "having a go".

You don't really need metal cutting/heating equipment such as oxy/acetylene gear, because you're unlikely to be working with heavy gauge steels around the home, though it's often handy if available. And welding gets a whole lot simpler when you're not messing with high tensile grade steels and alloys. Most tubing, flats and angle stock is a basic mild steel grade - perfect. Try to avoid anything smaller than 2mm wall thickness if you wanna weld it successfully with basic equipment. But yes, a bench and vyce, coupla saw-horses, welder, angle-grinder, hacksaw, pop-riveter PLUS a comprehensive tool kit and a "can do" attitude will build everything I've ever made at home - D/s related or just my recently new side fence.... Oh, and you'll need somewhere to store it all as well as use it - do you at least have that?

You do realise I'm talking a few grands worth of tools and equipment PLUS a suitable workshop? That's a substantial financial committment for someone who's possibly only seeing what can be made rather than considering what the associated equipment costs and the room you need to work it....

Still keen? lol

Focus.

(in reply to Copulo)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Metal Stuff

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109