RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble)

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Eruditegirl -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/2/2007 10:19:52 PM)
Thank you for this post...while I read I saw points you made that were a reflection of me...whatever reason you posted...be it your own clarity...or mine....it was appreciated..... kind of ironic...I noticed your tag line was by Jewel....."Barcelona" has kind of a close meaning for me and my submission.... Peace

myobedience -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/2/2007 10:40:20 PM)
GeekyGirl I think perhaps it's crucial to know WHERE your desire for submission comes from. Do you think it's important to understand the reasons why? I think sometimes the reasons take a side step...but I KNOW why. It is who I am, It has been my desire since I can remember all else. To serve One who is pleased with me. it so happens I like kink to. I dont consider myself a lifestyler ~~ not really. But I guess my kink fits with BD and sexually submissive as well as naturally submissive, to one man, is part of my core nature.

jessk -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 4:32:34 AM)
quote: I think perhaps it's crucial to know WHERE your desire for submission comes from. Do you think it's important to understand the reasons why? Why is it so important to know where it came from? Why can you not just accept it for what it is and enjoy it? I was not always submissive; there were times in my life that I wanted nothing to do with living this life in this way. However, the times that I am with a dominant man are happier than the times I am not. I don't question it. I just accept it for what it is and allow myself to be happy.

MstrssPassion -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 5:51:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl He said to me that "the older you get, the less it will matter why...just accept it." I'm not sure I agree with that...I think perhaps it's crucial to know WHERE your desire for submission comes from. Do you think it's important to understand the reasons why? With age comes wisdom & self recognition... with that you gain self confidence. Once you gain self confidence you tend to not worry so much about what others think about you & with this... you tend to not really care so much the whys, what-fors & where-from of everyone else around you. What your friend said is very true... however you just aren't at a place in life that you can grasp it. One day you will look back & see the wisdom in it & you too will pass along the same wisdom to someone who is at the place you are now & they too will disagree.

slavegirljoy -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 6:14:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jessk quote: I think perhaps it's crucial to know WHERE your desire for submission comes from. Do you think it's important to understand the reasons why? Why is it so important to know where it came from? Why can you not just accept it for what it is and enjoy it? For some of us, it is important to examine the path of our life and wonder how we got here and what it is that makes us who we are. That doesn't mean that we don't accept who we are or that we don't enjoy our life. quote: I was not always submissive; there were times in my life that I wanted nothing to do with living this life in this way. However, the times that I am with a dominant man are happier than the times I am not. i have always been submissive, but there have been many times that i wished i wasn't submissive and wanted nothing to do with BDSM and i tried to stay away and live a "normal life". HA! Fat chance! Every time i tried to have a "regular relationship" with a "regular guy", it was horrible. i was miserable. No matter how great the guy was and how much i wanted to live a happy life with him, i would always become frustrated and would find myself doing things just to get him mad, just to get him to react and take charge of me, straighten me out, get me back in line, which, naturally, none of them would ever do because they weren't that type. Then, i would think that there was just something wrong with me and i would never be able to have a really satisfying and happy relationship with any man for very long. Then, i would find myself being drawn back to a Dominant man who had a sadistic nature and i would be as happy and fulfilled as is humanly possible. i learned that is just the way i need to live, period. quote: I don't question it. I just accept it for what it is and allow myself to be happy. Just because i question and wonder "why" i am this way, doesn't mean that i don't accept who i am. In fact, it is by looking at my life and examining where i have come from and the things that i have done and experienced and felt along the way, that i have learned to accept who i am. But, i will continue to question and examine who i am and why i am. slave joy Owned property of Master David

petdave -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 6:21:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl a "domme-in-disguise" Come over to the dark side! We have cookies! (thanks to someone for that... possibly MzMia) quote: Rather it is , "I want to be a good girl so Daddy will give me attention". It's ultimately a selfish motivation. Does that make me a "wannabe?" Because my submission and obedience is tied to his reciprocating by giving me the attention I've always craved? i'm sure there are "slavelier than thou" types who will say this is the case, but i don't believe it, myself... every s-type is looking for something from their D/s relationship, and it's usually some form of affection or attention. You're more aware of this cause/effect relationship than some, but that may just be due to greater introspection and recognition of your own needs. Look at all of the subs who try and fail to be happy with vanilla spouses... if all they wanted was to make the other partner happy, the other person wouldn't need to be dominant. The submissive would just adapt their behaviors to fill in the gaps. But they don't, because for the majority of people it doesn't work without some form of reciprocation. i've spent a lot of time thinking about my own motivation... read dozens of psychology texts, journal articles, online diaries of other submissives, et cetera, et cetera. It's difficult because i can remember being this way when i was very young, and it's hard to recall exactly what was going on at the time. Most likely, i followed role models- my grandfather, who worked full-time, then cooked, did cleaning, and ran errands for my grandmother, and my Mom, who i can't recall ever making a decision independent of my father. Of course, delving into human motivations is seldom ever more than an educated guess. i apologize for being flip, but i can't help but recall a bit of humor i read once on the "Most popular lies in BDSM"... one of the ones for female submissives was "I don't have any Daddy issues" [:D]

myobedience -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 6:28:47 AM)
petdave every s-type is looking for something from their D/s relationship, and it's usually some form of affection or attention. While I agree with this in one way, every D-type if looking for something from their s- type ! And I do know what my D-type wants from me. Maybe that is the difference, when we know what we are motivated by, we find the D-type who motivates us even more.

jessk -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 6:29:15 AM)
Slavegirljoy I was not saying that there is anything wrong with the way that some approach their submission; only answering the question that the OP put forth and stating that I disagree with her statement that 'it was crucial to know where a person's submission came from'.

juliaoceania -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 7:01:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jessk Slavegirljoy I was not saying that there is anything wrong with the way that some approach their submission; only answering the question that the OP put forth and stating that I disagree with her statement that 'it was crucial to know where a person's submission came from'. I do not believe that Geeky meant that to be a universal statement. I think you read that too literally. Considering the context of the rest of her post, I think she meant that for HER it is critical to know that.

jessk -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 7:12:05 AM)
quote: I do not believe that Geeky meant that to be a universal statement. I think you read that too literally. Considering the context of the rest of her post, I think she meant that for HER it is critical to know that. I read her entire post. I reiterate what I stated to begin with; her question and statement was quote: I think perhaps it's crucial to know WHERE your desire for submission comes from. Do you think it's important to understand the reasons why? to which I simply posed another question as to why it was important for her to ask such. I did not take it as a universal statement; I applied the question in response to her own words.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 8:16:53 AM)
for this slave, it is far and away the easiest, most natural course of action when interacting in any type of relationship, financial, familial, filial, or sexually, emotionally intimate and always has been since this slave can remember. however, that is how this slave was raised. It wasn't called Master/slave...more like Owner/property. and it was completely non-sexual ownership/service. they reinforced it often. as far as the nuturing, protecting, guiding, providing and caring attributes that most ascribe to as "Daddy" qualities---this slave was rasied to believe and fully embraced the idea that is what any sucessful future partner for her would be, male or female. it would be wierd FOR THIS SLAVE, it would remind her of her previous biological owners(parents) which she had no sexual relationship with, to call someone she was sexually intimate with Daddy/Mommy. Perhaps someday Master will punish His slave with that, as it would definitely be a most uncomfortable mind-fuck. emerging from the sheltered existance that had only seen "Dominatrix" as a Halloween costume or submissive male fantasy, this slave was suprised to discover this "alternative lifestyle" where people call themselves all sorts of things forever, on-line, or for 15 minutes every other weekend, AND, as a bonus, some practice S&M. Curiously, the very things (non-sexual submission related)this slave was taught from infancy and reinforced for the next 30 odd years are the very things folks come to message boards such as these and discuss their struggle with, or integration of in various aspects of their lives. Often this slave has difficulty empathizing with the submissive struggles and the independent needs, as she has "just accepted it" as something she was either born with and/or trained to do a long time ago.

Missokyst -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 9:15:47 AM)
Hi Geeky, You are a lot like me, introspective and analytical about the "why's" of life. I guess I was fortunate to have come into bdsm before the impact of the internet. For me there was no real dilemma about defining me to have things make sense. But I did recognize that I like action B because it put a fix up for a questionable (A) part in my life. I doubt there is a twist or turn in my life that I have not looked at closely or tried to remap in my head. I think some of us are always wanting to know why. That is what makes us geeky. As you get older though, it is easier to be who you are without doubting yourself. Over time you will find you know yourself so well, that you can't imagine being any other way. At that point if people say, you are not sub, dom, or you are not a blue purple frazzlethorp.. it won't matter to you anymore. Because you will be comfortable on your path. And you will be able to see those other people walking along the other pathways with their heads faced forward unable to see your travels. Some people have a defined map and no other way is acceptable. Then there are those of us who went another way and are always trying to find where those turns happened, while still trying to find the party. Be comfy being yourself Geeky. As a geek myself I know its unlikely to change. Kyst

thetammyjo -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 9:24:05 AM)
It can be a useful intellectual exercise and journey to learn more about yourself. However from experience I can say that sometimes the answer as to why is so far in your past and so complex that it does become more rewarding to consider how you can be true to yourself regardless of how you got to be who you are. For example, take me (whatever other example could I honestly give you?). I have a pesonality far more inclined to leadership and teaching, to being dominant. However, that was not how I was raised. So did I overcome my upbringing, rebel against it, or merely find the true me? I could and did worry about that years ago then I realized as long as what I did "now" was consensual, done from a place of empowerment for everyone and as safely as I could do it, it honestly didn't matter. I was spending energy on trying to figure out "how" I got this way when I could have spent the energy on myself, my partner(s), and learning new things. The exception is when the "how" is being played out in a negative fashion. Such as making poor decisions that harm you or others or being too trapped in the "how" to move into the "now." Then you may want to understand the "how" so you can work on moving away from letting the past control the "now" or the "future."

SirDominic -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 10:05:34 AM)
quote: It's ultimately a selfish motivation. Does that make me a "wannabe?" Because my submission and obedience is tied to his reciprocating by giving me the attention I've always craved? geeky, No this does not make you a wannabe. Nor does it make you a closet Domme. Yes it does make your motivations selfish, because it is all one sided. What's in it for you. What about what's in it for the Dominant? I see many subs who have this same idea as their perfect Master/Daddy/Dom. The reason you cannot and will not ever find it is that you are trying to set the rules for the Master. You are looking for a submissive master. An oxymoron if ever I heard one. Master's just do not work that way. Even if you found someone to be a submissive master, it wouldn't work. His submissiveness to you would bore you pretty quickly. Getting what you want is a nice fantasy, but the reality is you will not be able to look up to a man who is not Dominant. Take me for example. I actually conform to a lot of what you are looking for in the sense that everything I do with (and to) my slave is to build her up; never to degrade her or knock her down. Yes this is what she yearns for, but I don't do it for that reason. I do it because it is what I want to do. I would be doing these things whether she wanted them or not. What I do is determined by my timetable. I give or withhold at my whim. I don't withhold to be cruel, but to teach her something I am trying to get her to see about herself. She loves me because I understand her needs, but I take care of them on my terms, not hers. Yes she needs the attention, but she needs the domination just as much. You've written up a great list of your needs. So, I would ask you, geeky, what are you willing to surrender to serve His needs? Namaste, Sir Dominic p.s. There are people who are more introspective than others. Neither is right or wrong. You are an unusually introspective young woman, and I think it is important that you understand where your desire for submission comes from.

juliaoceania -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 10:25:08 AM)
quote: Getting what you want is a nice fantasy, but the reality is you will not be able to look up to a man who is not Dominant. Doesn't that depend on what you want? I think all people should get what they want, being submissive does not preclude me having my heart's desires, it just means that what I desire is to be submissive to Daddy, and that I have to learn to structure my wants within the boundaries that he has drawn for us. It does not mean I do not get what I want, feel fulfilled and satisfied, happy, and content. That is why people should find dynamics that suit both people... so everyone gets what they want! I am not a martyr, and that does not make me completely selfish, it just means I am not completely selfless. I do not believe (in my opinion) that submissiveness equates selflessness... and to be honest, I have never in my life met a selfless person.

mistoferin -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 10:31:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania being submissive does not preclude me having my heart's desires, it just means that what I desire is to be submissive And there you hit the nail on the head. Even the slaveliest of slaves who live and breathe every moment of their lives only for the pleasure of their Master's are doing so because it is what they desire to do. If not they wouldn't be there. It's what fulfills them.

SirDominic -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 10:39:21 AM)
quote: That is why people should find dynamics that suit both people... so everyone gets what they want! Actually, mist, this quote hit it on the head. It was my whole point. For any relationship to work, both parties need to be getting something out of it. julia, you said it yourself, "being submissive does not preclude me having my heart's desires, it just means that what I desire is to be submissive to Daddy, and that I have to learn to structure my wants within the boundaries that he has drawn for us." Again, exactly my point. In order for your Daddy to dominate, you must structure your wants within the boundaries he establishes. What I was saying to geeky is that I didn't see anything in her list of needs that indicated she had an interest in getting her needs filled within the structure a Dominant might set up. Namaste, Sir Dominic

slavegirljoy -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 11:12:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jessk Slavegirljoy I was not saying that there is anything wrong with the way that some approach their submission; only answering the question that the OP put forth and stating that I disagree with her statement that 'it was crucial to know where a person's submission came from'. And all i was saying was that for some, me at least, it is crucial to know, not just where my need to be submissive comes from, but also why i have certain recurring sexual fantasies and why i am prone to certain tendencies in other areas of my life, which, through asking deep and probing questions about myself, i have come to understand these things better and so i don't have as many questions as i once had, but a part of my character is to always question, always examine who i am & why i am. That, too me, is a very important part of my growth, as a person. That is why i keep a journal. It allows me to look back on my journey and see how i got here and that will, hopefully, help me to get where i want to go with a little more ease and a little less turmoil. slave joy Owned property of Master David

haysup -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 11:37:02 AM)
I like your post a lot, GeekyGirl. Answering this in complementary detail, for me, would be a little more personal than I'm comfortable with, but I applaud your courage in putting your thoughts out here. The best I can say is that I have a need to do the right thing, to incontrovertibly know what the right thing is; I want to do what my partner wants; and I want to be praised and given attention for successfully doing what is right. My Master, of course, defines that.

slaveish -> RE: Motivations of Submission (and a personal ramble) (5/3/2007 12:07:45 PM)
I haven't seen John Warren around here in a little while but he discusses this very topic in Chapter 3 of "The Loving Dominant." I will not quote his work here out of respect for his effort (and copyright, as well as the TOS of CM) but it's worth a peek.

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