Essay arrest baffles experts

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pahunkboy -> Essay arrest baffles experts (4/27/2007 10:24:50 AM)
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/360827,CST-NWS-essay27.article Police Thursday released portions of an essay used to charge a Cary-Grove High School student with disorderly conduct, leaving several experts puzzled at an arrest based on such schoolwork. Asked to write about whatever he wanted in a creative writing class... this hysteria has gone too far!!!!! tthis is akin to thought police!

gypsygrl -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/27/2007 10:43:40 AM)
How could a written document be considered disordly conduct by any stretch of the imagination? What could it do beside just kind of sit there doing nothing? Maybe I should clean up my papers, though, just in case. They're spread all over my kitchen table in a disorderly mess. :)

Alumbrado -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/27/2007 10:47:17 AM)
Another shot of KY applied to the proverbial slippery slope...

pahunkboy -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/27/2007 10:54:15 AM)
the students were instructed to NOT censure themselfs in the creative writing class. this is alarming. it makes anything you ever wrote- a potential- for- charges, regardless of context- regardless of fictional or simply thoughts out loud. i dont recal any type of precedent for this.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/27/2007 11:05:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/360827,CST-NWS-essay27.article Police Thursday released portions of an essay used to charge a Cary-Grove High School student with disorderly conduct, leaving several experts puzzled at an arrest based on such schoolwork. Asked to write about whatever he wanted in a creative writing class... this hysteria has gone too far!!!!! tthis is akin to thought police! Yeah, it's ridiculous. This why I'm against all thought based laws. It starts with "good" sounding laws like "hate crime legislations" and drifts and drifts and drifts. You can't open a box, and expect it not spill out in areas unforeseen initially. So, now we are to the point, where creative writing is only acceptable in a narrow band of accepted thought. Hrmmmm, Stephen King is fucked. This is disturbing though, as I used to enjoy creative writing class, and I'd take full advantage of the non-censor. Dead babies, rape, murder, (never sex with the dead, but just because I didn't think about it, LOL), that was the point to me to write the most fucked up horrific shit I could think of.

selfbnd411 -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/27/2007 11:10:18 AM)
"A second disorderly count accuses Lee of alarming first-year teacher Nora Capron by writing that "as a teacher, don't be surprised on [sic] inspiring the first CG shooting,'' an apparent reference to Cary-Grove High." Sounds like the police did the right thing to me. Free speech is not limitless. Just try telling your neighbors that you'll burn their house down and poison their milk and find out just where those limits are.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/27/2007 11:18:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 "A second disorderly count accuses Lee of alarming first-year teacher Nora Capron by writing that "as a teacher, don't be surprised on [sic] inspiring the first CG shooting,'' an apparent reference to Cary-Grove High." Sounds like the police did the right thing to me. Free speech is not limitless. Just try telling your neighbors that you'll burn their house down and poison their milk and find out just where those limits are. It says a second disorderly charge, doesn't that infer, that the disorderly charge for the essay is seperate from that other quote you referenced. So, wouldn't that mean that the essay alone was the grounds for the original charge? Anyway, the kid has no police record, an honors student, and this was done(the essay), in creative writing class. It's bullshit. People need to lighten up a bit.

farglebargle -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/27/2007 11:38:54 AM)
We are no longer, as a culture, brave enough to deserve Freedom.

domiguy -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/27/2007 11:51:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 "A second disorderly count accuses Lee of alarming first-year teacher Nora Capron by writing that "as a teacher, don't be surprised on [sic] inspiring the first CG shooting,'' an apparent reference to Cary-Grove High." Sounds like the police did the right thing to me. Free speech is not limitless. Just try telling your neighbors that you'll burn their house down and poison their milk and find out just where those limits are. There is a huge difference between a "creative writing" course which is fiction and someone writing a letter directed as a threat....It's such a shame that we live in a world where the idea of freedom is "that if you are not doing anything wrong than you have nothing to worry about."...This type of policing always works out wonderfully for all involved.

Casie -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/27/2007 1:01:27 PM)
obsurd. Im sure the ACLU will be all over this lol

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/27/2007 3:07:00 PM)
I don't believe there should have been a criminal action against the boy, but if we don't learn to look for potential warning signs, especially in view of what just happened, then we can expect no less t5han mroe of the same. And we should not be shocked if it happens again. Writings such as this should be brought to the attention of parents and counselors. Then the appropriate action is taken. Not an arrest certainly. But a good talking too regarding the inappropriateness of such "joking", and a chance to see where the kid is going. Probably nowhere...but, it is still a responsibility to ensure that this isn't some sort of warning sign that is going to be ignored. People request help in many ways. If he doesn't need it, but just a little guidance regarding expressing himself more appropriately, fine... Why would he take a creative writing assingment and want to express himself in such a violent manner? Because he can? Why is that even attractive to him and the first things that spring to mind? So...I'm just saying. So yes, it is the repsonsibility of parents and teachers to be thought police to a certain extent. I am sure I am going to get slapped around for this one!

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/27/2007 3:14:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy the students were instructed to NOT censure themselfs in the creative writing class. this is alarming. it makes anything you ever wrote- a potential- for- charges, regardless of context- regardless of fictional or simply thoughts out loud. i dont recal any type of precedent for this. No...it gives those in the life guidance roles an opportunity to see if someone is approaching life in a manner that might get them into trouble later on. Because it is fiction, in the boy's mind, that makes it alright? It is fiction and exposure to this stuff that causes the next real life incident. Everyone is still screamining about all the copycats. If someone was writing about suicide and sadness, would it not be the responsible thing to check in with the writer and see what is driving this writing? And perhaps you find that they are still trying to work through the suicide of a friend, or the sadness of some things in life. How badly would you feel if you ignored this and said,. "I can't be a part of the though police" and then that person killed himself?. Again, I repeat, I absolutely disagree with a knee jerk reaction of having the boy arrested. That is way off the mark. But don't get that overreaction confused with the fact that it seems like most are saying, it is fiction, it was a school assignment, and it is nobody's business and his privacy was invaded. ACLU indeed...hmmmmmm

Vendaval -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/27/2007 4:37:21 PM)
I second the recommendation of having him talk to a counselor and having a talk with the parents to express concern. But having him arrested is a misuse of police authority. Please make note that he is also age 18, a legal adult in our society, no longer a minor. In addition this was a creative writing class with express written instructions to not censor ideas.

Legman1 -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/28/2007 8:15:46 AM)
This is a backlash arrest. Hopefully it wont hold up in court. Security is no excuse for the loss of our basic freedoms.

selfbnd411 -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/28/2007 8:47:42 AM)
Apparently the "creative writing" in question wasn't so creative. It's easy to say "oh, it's just fiction. The police overreacted." None of us has any actual responsibility to see that this adult doesn't go and kill his classmates. Put yourself in the shoes of that young teacher. Would you feel threatened if an 18 y/o wannabe soldier of fortune said this about you? "Most new/young teachers are laid back, and cooperative with students as feedback and input into the curriculum and atmosphere. My current English teacher is a control freak intent on setting a gap between herself and her students like a 63 year old white male fortune 500 company CEO, and a illegal immigrant. If CG was a private catholic school I could understand, but wtf is her problem. And baking brownies and rice crispies does not make up for it, way to try and justify yourself as a good teacher while underhandidly looking for complements on your cooking. No quarrel on you qualifications as a writer, but as a teacher, don’t be surprised on inspiring the first cg shooting." Full text can be found at: http://www.nwherald.com/articles/2007/04/27/news/local/doc46323cf53fd2a594795423.txt This isn't some kid writing a piece of fiction. This is a case of an adult making a conscious effort to intimidate his classmates and teacher using the threat of violence.

Termyn8or -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/28/2007 9:26:32 AM)
There has to be a line drawn. First of all, his necrophillic subject matter never should've seen the light of day, except maybe on an internet forum in the form of fiction (hint hint). If those were the rules, which pretty much said "get as wild as you can", I don't see a problem. Now there IS a problem here. About the reference to inspiring a CG shooting. I DO have a problem with that. To tell someone that they might inspire a shooting is a bit close to saying that they would be the target. What else makes sense. It should've been investigated then. That particular statement is significant, while the one 'they' focus on is not. T

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/28/2007 9:05:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 Apparently the "creative writing" in question wasn't so creative. It's easy to say "oh, it's just fiction. The police overreacted." None of us has any actual responsibility to see that this adult doesn't go and kill his classmates. Put yourself in the shoes of that young teacher. Would you feel threatened if an 18 y/o wannabe soldier of fortune said this about you? "Most new/young teachers are laid back, and cooperative with students as feedback and input into the curriculum and atmosphere. My current English teacher is a control freak intent on setting a gap between herself and her students like a 63 year old white male fortune 500 company CEO, and a illegal immigrant. If CG was a private catholic school I could understand, but wtf is her problem. And baking brownies and rice crispies does not make up for it, way to try and justify yourself as a good teacher while underhandidly looking for complements on your cooking. No quarrel on you qualifications as a writer, but as a teacher, don’t be surprised on inspiring the first cg shooting." Full text can be found at: http://www.nwherald.com/articles/2007/04/27/news/local/doc46323cf53fd2a594795423.txt This isn't some kid writing a piece of fiction. This is a case of an adult making a conscious effort to intimidate his classmates and teacher using the threat of violence. How old is this boy? I am trying to remember if he is already 18 or almost 18... I would not only be concerned about the content, but I would be very worried that a student could reach this stage in education and not know how to spell some very simple words, have such lousy sentence structure, and think it is appropriate to use the term "wtf" in a school paper. And then we wonder... Edited to add: His punctuation stinks too!

Arpig -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/28/2007 9:29:27 PM)
A total travesty...a fucking joke except that it is real. Things have gone to far!

pahunkboy -> RE: Essay arrest baffles experts (4/29/2007 6:23:06 AM)
well then, this poses another question. is the pen mightier then the sword? all day long the tv beams images of viollance and destruction. it would appear that everyone is a terrorist. what about the 4th amandemmment. think outside the box and the kgb in on u

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