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RE: Desperate Morals - 4/27/2007 5:56:17 AM

puella

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It probably has something to do with motivation, and not morals... .if you are turning to an entertainment for your education... your motivation is wrong, as is your sourcing.

Oscar Wilde wrote, "There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written." I think that is true for any form of 'entertainment'.

Your inability to determine what is poorly written, and therefore how much weight it should actually play in your digestion of it is not the fault of the book, or it's author.

Your inability to determine where an entertainment belongs in the echelon of your morality, is not the fault of the entertainment or those who have set out the entertainment.

< Message edited by puella -- 4/27/2007 6:10:26 AM >

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RE: Desperate Morals - 4/27/2007 6:05:17 AM

StellaByStarlite

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Perhaps this has already been examined, but leave morals out of it for a moment and consider the aspect of desensitization. If a person sees extreme violence, pedofilia, cheating, etc., after awhile it can desensitize the viewer to those things, especially if those images are entertaining. If you cease being sensitive, you cease being shocked. If you cease being shocked you may lose your sense of moral outrage. If you lose your sense of moral outrage, you no longer get inspired to correct moral abuses in society.

Slippery slope. Some people DO get entertained by gruesome blood and guts. I'll take a wild guess and say it's adrenaline and suspension of belief. That doesn't mean their social concience is affected.

I'll ask again... do the fantasy rape enthusiasts out there eventually get de-sensitized to real rape? Have you actually read some of the fantasy rape stories or looked at the comics? What is the difference between enjoying that type of BDSM entertainment and enjoying a gruesome movie?

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Post #: 22

RE: Desperate Morals - 4/27/2007 6:07:44 AM

StellaByStarlite

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Puella, you're putting it better then I ever could. =)

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Post #: 23

RE: Desperate Morals - 4/27/2007 6:09:09 AM

puella

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Heheh Stella, if that is the case, it is only because I have had three espressos this morning!

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We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

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Post #: 24

RE: Desperate Morals - 4/27/2007 6:13:21 AM

StellaByStarlite

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You mean your wit doesn't spring eternal? I'm so disillusioned! ;)

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RE: Desperate Morals - 4/27/2007 6:14:50 AM

puella

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I think I am high off the roast and am channeling some second rate 'table philosophers' in a 19th Century Austrian coffee house...

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to StellaByStarlite)

Post #: 26

RE: Desperate Morals - 4/27/2007 6:20:17 AM

windchymes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite

.

I'll ask again... do the fantasy rape enthusiasts out there eventually get de-sensitized to real rape? Have you actually read some of the fantasy rape stories or looked at the comics? What is the difference between enjoying that type of BDSM entertainment and enjoying a gruesome movie?

Good question. "Fantasy Rape" has always been a big turn-on of mine, but to have it happen in reality is a big fear. Fantasy Rape stories are probably my favorite erotica to read. I've wondered for a long time WHY I feel that way, WHY it excites me to read about it. And, I'll even confess that "real rape" scenes in movies or fiction excite the hell out of me, too!

Perhaps it's a latent human emotion or desire....experiencing danger vicariously to experience the adrenalin rush, like riding a roller coaster. There's implied danger, but it's still a thrill, since it's in a "safe" controlled situation, as "fantasy" rape would be. I always say, MY rapist would be tall, dark and handsome, smelling good and freshly showered, lol. And he wouldn't really hurt me.

But I honestly don't think I'm de-sensitized to the seriousness of it. If it happened to a friend or relative of mine, I'd be outraged and appalled and horrified and would probably want to hunt down and kill whoever did it to them.

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Post #: 27

RE: Desperate Morals - 4/27/2007 7:23:14 AM

Satyr6406

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite

quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406

I think that people who have some morals and ethics, for the most part, avoid most of television's offerings. I have no proof of this; just an observation from my own experiences.

How incredibly patronizing. I'll go and call my friends right now and inform them that they have no morals and ethics, lol.

This type of thread really draws the out the psuedo-intellectual types, that's for sure. Do you realize you just made a pretty rude generalization? How ethical is that? Is it ethical to form such an insulting opinion of a WIDE variety of people without doing some research first?

Peace and comfort,

Michael

I've taken the liberty of highlighting the qualifiers in that sentence that keep it from being a sweeping generalization.

If the statement still offends you, it's probably just my psuedo-intelligence.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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Post #: 28

RE: Desperate Morals - 4/27/2007 7:37:53 AM

rascallymisty

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Well said Satyr6406.

I have been told that I seem to have quite a bit of morals and ethics, with that said I can back what you said as I avoid television's for the most part.

~misty ~

edited to added.... that is not a put down to anyone, just that for me it holds true.........

< Message edited by rascallymisty -- 4/27/2007 7:42:00 AM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Desperate Morals - 4/27/2007 8:08:50 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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I thought that's half the fun of movies and books- you get to experience and enjoy the things you'd never actually do or maybe even WANT to do.

Fiction can do a lot of things, including influencing people's ideas and using the fictional format to make people think about reality (Farenheit 451 one of the most well known examples). And sometimes showing the "bad things" in a fictional setting helps us deal with it in reality.

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RE: Desperate Morals - 4/27/2007 6:46:22 PM

FelinePersuasion

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No. Sorry I don't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

It would be strange indeed to conclude that movies and TV shows had no influence on us individually or as a society. Remember the rush for the Rachel hairstyle? E

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Post #: 31

RE: Desperate Morals - 4/28/2007 11:00:54 PM

juliaoceania

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I watched that show for about a season. I did not quit watching it because of the morality problem, I quit watching it because it bored me....

I watch movies and read books that have themes that disagree with how I would choose to lead my life, and I do not see a contradiction in it. The characters that cheated on DH for example, well their lives were depicted as rather sad and pathetic. It did not seem a call to go and cheat on one's mate. At least I did not think they portrayed cheating in a good light.

I have a very good friend that is cheating on her husband, and her story has been rather sad too. It is definitely not a way to handle marital boredom based on what I have seen. I have no objection to real life issues being portrayed, just do not bore me, and 99.9% of TV bores the living daylights out of me.

edited to add, I began watching the show because my sister talked me into it as she is a regular fan. I really did try to catch on because she and I have little in common, and I thought it would give us something to talk about

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/28/2007 11:04:51 PM >

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Post #: 32

RE: Desperate Morals - 4/29/2007 12:30:42 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

If you can not firmly separate what is a fictional entertainment and what is reality, it will not stop at TV, Movies, etc. If as a developed adult you have trouble distinguishing between fantasy and the definitions of your own moral compass... you have some serious issues to slap on the table.

I would agree with this, BUT...I think what happens is we as a society become so accustomed to seeing rape, murder and mayhem in TV, movies and news, that the shock value gets diluted and the outrage dies. We watch the local news, filled with all the bad things bad people do, and then we go to bed for a good night's sleep. Are we becoming an unshockable society?

As for watching things which oppose my personal morals, sure I do, when I actually watch TV (I've hardly turned my on in the last year & a half). One of my favorite TV shows ever was "Homicide: Life on the Streets" about homicide detectives in Baltimore. It didn't advocate murder, by any means, but every week I'd watch a show about people sliced & diced, call it a night, and go to bed happily. We end up thinking, "Oh yeah, that stuff happens all the time" so when we see it on the news (youngster-nabbing, murder, rape, etc.) I believe we react differently. It almost becomes an accepted part of our society.

(in reply to puella)

Post #: 33

RE: Desperate Morals - 4/29/2007 2:13:03 AM

DarkDreams123

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I would like to "second" what ownedgirlie is saying here. I think the danger from our entertainment sources is not just moral corruption, but also apathy.

I also agree with some of puella's remarks about the relation between our moral values and what we choose to expose ourselves to. I am responsible for my own moral choices: I can't blame TV and movies if I choose to do something wrong.

However, I also believe that what I choose to expose myself to has an effect on me. If I expose myself long enough, I think my "moral compass" could indeed be eroded. The extent to which this happens probably depends on what kind of person I am to start with. Ted Bundy might very well still have been a rapist and murderer even if he had never discovered the pornographic material that fed this part of his mind.

But can you say that it didn't make any difference?

I think that there are some people who are susceptible to various media sources something like an alcoholic is susceptible to liquor.

Just as with the alcoholic, though, I put the responsibility on the individual. Ultimately, the only other solution is the police state.

-DarkDreams

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 34

RE: Desperate Morals - 4/30/2007 9:57:09 PM

NakedOnMyChain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite
I don't watch Desperate Housewives, but I do watch ( and enjoy) The Sopranos . The content is different, but the idea is the same.. escapism and fantasy entertainment. People that are reasonably stable know how to draw the line between TV and reality.

I've been an avid fan of the Sopranos since it came out. So far, I'm not in the least bit de-sensitized to actual violence. Oh, yeah, horror movies too. The freakier, the better. I'm pretty confident that my ethics and morals are intact. I mean, I haven't built any cool elaborate murder machines in my basement. Yet.

You know your same questions could be directed towards the hardcore fantasy rape stories or comics, right?

I'm aware of it. But I didn't mean that if you watch the Sopranos you're going to cap someone in a laundromat while wearing a dark suit and too much hair product. Most people are, as you said, stable enough to know the difference. What I mean is so much more insidious. It's not what you do, per se, that changes, but how you view what others do, your reactions to things. And this leads, over a very long time, to a more permissive society. Look at the last fifty years. Actually, you could even just look at the last fifteen or ten. Something you might have been appalled by several years ago could possibly be changed by years of having it pounded into you that it's OK, be it via TV, radio, stories, or just social company. Honestly, it's a probable theory. Does it create a bunch of sex-crazed, homicidal druggies? No. Not now, anyway. But does it allow our view of them to become very, very slowly... not OK... just more comfortable with their presence? My bet is yes.

Of course, anything will change you with enough exposure to it, even if it's a very slight change. I would just prefer to have my evolution formed in other ways. But, as always, everyone should to do their own thing.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

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Post #: 35

RE: Desperate Morals - 5/1/2007 2:04:21 AM

Vendaval

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IMO, it is important to be selective about what you feed your
brain, "garbage in = garbage out" for computers. The same
holds true for the human mind, emotions and imagination.

Every so often I need a good dose of the "ultra-violence",
like I need a good dose of the best whiskey. Best to keep
both in moderation to maintain your sensibilities and
your balanced or twisted perspective.

Great topic, NakedOnMyChain!

YMMV,

Vendaval

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain
Of course, anything will change you with enough exposure to it, even if it's a very slight change. I would just prefer to have my evolution formed in other ways. But, as always, everyone should to do their own thing.

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RE: Desperate Morals - 5/1/2007 8:07:08 AM

SirDominic

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I think the danger from our entertainment sources is not just moral corruption, but also apathy.

To me, this is the more insidious issue with television. It's not the content, it's how much we watch it. According to various polls, most people watch roughly 4 to 5 hours of tv per day! Assuming you work an average eight hour day, plus commute, that means you watch the box from the moment you come home till you go to bed.

You live your whole life vicariously. You almost never do anything original, creative, entertaining, emotional, intellectual on your own. It's all done for you. Does everyone remember the Roman bread and circusses? A population whose only interest was the arena? TV is the modern equivelent. Both were and are for a populace that is in stagnation.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

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RE: Desperate Morals - 5/1/2007 11:38:30 AM

NakedOnMyChain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic
You live your whole life vicariously. You almost never do anything original, creative, entertaining, emotional, intellectual on your own. It's all done for you. Does everyone remember the Roman bread and circusses? A population whose only interest was the arena? TV is the modern equivelent. Both were and are for a populace that is in stagnation.

I agree about living vicariously through various forms of entertainment. For me, its books. I do slightly disagree, however, about the Roman arena. At least going to the Colliseum was still a social act. You were among many other people. Whether I approve of the sport or not, it was social. That is the main difference between it and television. TV and the internet, while wonderful at times, have isolated us, which adds to their influence. Without the interaction of friends, family and strangers to influence us, TV gains more hold.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 38

RE: Desperate Morals - 5/1/2007 11:48:57 AM

darkinshadows

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quote:

I agree about living vicariously through various forms of entertainment. For me, its books. I do slightly disagree, however, about the Roman arena. At least going to the Colliseum was still a social act. You were among many other people. Whether I approve of the sport or not, it was social. That is the main difference between it and television. TV and the internet, while wonderful at times, have isolated us, which adds to their influence. Without the interaction of friends, family and strangers to influence us, TV gains more hold.

Only if you allow it to be.
Cinema, theatre, going to a pub - all these are social situations. I have had film nights, where friends have come over and we all watch a film on DVD - or sitting down with your SO and having a programme night or hour (something I did this past weekend) - watching T.V isn't something I do often - but when I do, I do so as a family or a couple. Even my children sit with me to watch 'The Apprentice' - they love it - are there morals there? There is a teaching of human morality and on how and why people do things. We sit and discuss what is going on during the programme and in that way, my children learn the value of what is going on around them, not just centre souly on some confined little world - programmes like DH may not be of a morally high standard, but they do teach. There is only apathy if there is no discussion afterwards.

Peace and Rapture

< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 5/1/2007 11:49:24 AM >

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Post #: 39

RE: Desperate Morals - 5/1/2007 1:16:07 PM

Devilslilsister

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We turn on Animal Planet, TLC, Discovery health for entertainment.

Does it affect the morals? Dunno..... but i tell ya....... i've seen how hard it is to lose hundreds and hundreds of pounds and well........ i'll mind myself and eat right. Can you imagine what it would like to live a life chained down by weight and unable to get out of bed?

Learned about a baby in south america born a "mermaid" baby. Fascinating.

i dunno....... real life......... i find my shows much much more fascinating then this other crap. Did anyone see on DH or TLC the 4 identical quads? This other crap........ who showed her vagina to who, who can sing better, who screwed what milkman (or whatever is on that show) is NORMAL. Happens every day...... boring

never seen a mermaid baby before tho. Nor did i know that their are fish (or was it parasites) in the amazon river that will climb up your pee hole and start eating the inside of your genitals.

So newp, i dont think my shows affect my morals.

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Post #: 40

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