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RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 10:21:08 AM

aurora31

Posts: 266
Joined: 8/18/2005
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To me there is a huge difference between being sadistic and being cruel. I love pain and pain play, I also at times enjoy emotional sadism. But to me that is very different from being cruel. The intent behind them are so very very different. I am not the best a putting my thoughts into words maybe someone who is far better spoken then me can elaborate on my thoughts.

aurora

(in reply to mythi)

Post #: 21

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 10:25:08 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

given the two limited options, i'd choose neither. my Master can certainly be cruel and sadistic at times, but if that's all he could be i wouldn't adore him so and i certainly wouldn't be able to survive as his slave. His style of domination is firm, loving, cold, cruel, warm, angry, indifferent, obsessive....in other words it is all things, because it is simply him. and that is the sort of domination i like...not "sensual", not "sadistic", but simply natural.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 22

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 10:33:27 AM

sunfleur

Posts: 75
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline

i definately need someone with both qualities. they need not show them both at the same time, but i feel each compliments the other.

sunfleur

(in reply to MellowSir)

Post #: 23

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 10:51:46 AM

MySweetSubmssive

Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline

As you've stated it, the dichotomy isn't between sadistic and sensual, it's between sadistic and an asshole. Many women are in relationships with men who treat them like shit. I think what you're asking is whether women are looking for that same dynamic, or whether D/s sadism is different.

You asked women which category they are in. I don't think you are going to get too many who will stand up and say "I prefer to be in relationships where I am treated poorly."

MSS

< Message edited by MySweetSubmssive -- 4/26/2007 11:11:23 AM >

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(in reply to MellowSir)

Post #: 24

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 11:29:46 AM

CrazyC

Posts: 949
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

Yes, I was wondering just how prevalent the patterns are. Any of us, with a bit of skill and elan' can assume the guise of being cruel while sceneing. I am more of a sensual nature, no less firm or controlling, just my particular path. Wouldn't mind a bit of advice on how to better recognize the signs of such in prospective subs. And of subs that prefer cruelty, is it by preference or the only love they've known?

You know you make me laugh. Sorry as disrespectful as that might sound with you being a Dom and me being a sub. You are so busy putting cruelty and sadistic together that you can't see the diffrence on a psychological level. That and telling what type of Dom you are only sounds like you are trying to advertice what a great Dom you are.

There is a psychological diffrence so big that a post wouldn't cover it, and if you truely care and want to understand the first thing you would have to do is stop with trying to catagorize this whole concept. I, as a submissive, get turned on by being slapped and called a bitch, and that is no matter the time sexual or otherwise. But just because the Dom is cruel in doing that doesn't mean i doubt how much he cares for me or that he is really hurting me emotionally.

The repeat cruelty that you keep mentioning is emotional. This is when a woman continually goes for the lover that will treat her like shit. This type of pattern is from someone who has an unhealthy out look on life, on herself, and really can't understand that idea. Now for you as a Dom and wanting to be a caring Dom, there is nothing you can do, because yes that is the only love she will know. The only way one can break the pattern is be looking within, and relearning what love is first themselves and then how it should be recieved by others.

_____________________________

"You never lose by loving. You always lose by holding back." Barbara De Angelis

(in reply to MellowSir)

Post #: 25

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 11:48:08 AM

onestandingstill

Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Personally, I believe myself to be both sadistic and sensual. I can be one without the other or I can combine both. It depends on my mood and what I perceive as being called for.

That's the key IMO.
It's finding the balance and being able to wear both hats.
I don't want a man who's mostly one or the other, but blends both well.
suzanne

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 26

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 2:29:55 PM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

In answer to asraii, what I mean by "cruel" is emotionally inconsiderate and lack of respect

I hate to bring a dictionary into discussions, but I see cruel defined as "willfully or knowingly causing pain or distress to others", so a sadist is just someone who enjoys that. The problem is you have no clue that someone can be cruel while still having respect for and being emotionally considerate of the partner. That's ok if it ain't your kink, but such colossal ignorance isn't ok at all, and it makes me suspect that you are trying to lump in anyone who isn't a groovy sensual dom like you into a group encompassed by your weird definition of cruel that also includes the dysfunctional and psychopaths.

Add me to the club along with SimplyMichael and CrazyC of folks who thinks this looks like a lame attempt at a personal ad.

< Message edited by happypervert -- 4/26/2007 2:41:47 PM >

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(in reply to MellowSir)

Post #: 27

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 2:52:04 PM

IrishMist

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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Quite honestly, give me a sadistic, bad boy over a romantic, sweet natured one any day of the week

Seriously though, you seem to be fixated on this idea that sadistic = mean tempered asshole when nothing could be farther from the truth.

Just because a person is sadistic does not mean that they have anger issues; or that they are physically, emotionally, pshychologically abusing their property.

I think you need to take a step back and stop making sweeping generalizations about personalities that you know nothing about.

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(in reply to MellowSir)

Post #: 28

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 7:18:21 PM

smcontrol

Posts: 33
Joined: 4/9/2007
Status: offline

The idea that women don't like "nice" men has been around a while and is usually expressed when complaining that the man has had no luck being nice to women and is frustrated that he sees them staying with men he perceives to be cruel and mean. I think the problem lies when he confuses nice with being kind of a sissy or trying to ingratiate himself with the women by constantly finding "nice" things to do for her. There is only so much nice a woman can stand and most of them already have friends who know what it's like to have a period so they don't need the kind of hoverer that will bring chocolate and midol and clip coupons from Bath and Body. (Not being literal here.... Imagery is part of all great literature)

I don't claim an ability to speak for all women of course. In my experience, however, I've found that women prefer men to guys. Or at least the ones I like do.

_____________________________

Michael

"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. But those that will not break it kills."

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(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 29

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 7:26:47 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

As you've stated it, the dichotomy isn't between sadistic and sensual, it's between sadistic and an asshole. Many women are in relationships with men who treat them like shit. I think what you're asking is whether women are looking for that same dynamic, or whether D/s sadism is different.

You asked women which category they are in. I don't think you are going to get too many who will stand up and say "I prefer to be in relationships where I am treated poorly."

MSS

Very well stated and my thoughts exactly...Tempting

(in reply to MySweetSubmssive)

Post #: 30

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 8:05:40 PM

Asraii

Posts: 91
Status: offline

quote:

In my experience, however, I've found that women prefer men to guys. Or at least the ones I like do.

Ok, this I have to jump on.

What is the difference then between men and guys? I was not aware that to be a man you had to be one way, and if you were not that way; then you were a guy.

Ok, that confused even me.

_____________________________

Nothing prevents happiness like the memory of happiness
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(in reply to smcontrol)

Post #: 31

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 8:52:06 PM

arayofsunshine55

Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline

No I don't like mean. I don't like bad boys or girls either. Not for a relationship anyway. And not much for fucking either. Mean, cruel. None of that is required for me to hurt or be hurt. He can hurt me joyfully. And lovingly. And still have me crying. He can hurt me cause he loves me and he knows I love him to hurt me. I can hurt another cause I enjoy the pleasure and pain which is elicited. I don't have to pretty it up. But I also don't need to mean and evil it up. It just is what it is. Consensual on both sides. Enjoyed on both sides. Celebrated on both sides. Craved on both sides.

I do find when talking to submissive men that I do need to make a point of saying I don't get off on just waling away on them. It isn't my particular style. There are people who have really negative connotations with the term sadist so I usually choose to describe what I like more than use the labels. I find the reality I describe is compelling to many while the term sadist brings to mind experiences of which many are not so fond.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to MellowSir)

Post #: 32

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 8:54:38 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings mellowsir,

He is both very sadistic and very sensual...as well as being sensually sadistic and sadistically sensual. He's also many, many other things, which may occasionally contradict or fall in line with those two qualities. i like it that way. ;)

what is this "versus" business?

annabelle.

< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 4/26/2007 8:55:38 PM >

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(in reply to MellowSir)

Post #: 33

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 10:01:10 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

Sorry to quote Madonna...but here goes (best singing voice here).."I dont like a big softy..I like someone mean and bossy"

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Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 34

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/26/2007 11:42:47 PM

Asraii

Posts: 91
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Sorry to quote Madonna...but here goes (best singing voice here).."I dont like a big softy..I like someone mean and bossy"

LOL I like that; it's very fitting.

_____________________________

Nothing prevents happiness like the memory of happiness
Andre Gide

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 35

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/27/2007 4:11:55 AM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

{fast reply}

glad to see I'm not the only one who has a comfortable balance of both

Years ago when I was asked what was the best way to describe myself I said I'm a sensual sadist

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MstrssPassion

(in reply to Asraii)

Post #: 36

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/29/2007 9:49:03 PM

bigskycountry

Posts: 43
Joined: 4/19/2007
From: montana
Status: offline

For Myself, I find a sort of "seething intensity" allows for a better performance of both parties. I kind of akin it to a forethought viciousness wherein the goal of which is being worked toward, versus a self-indulgent fulfillment of a latent desire (the latter of which is what I guess I felt, in retrospect, when I re-examine My first forays into tying up someone or smacking them across the cheek lo' so many years ago.) Then again, some guys are just brutes unwilling or unable to encompass the situation and are merely doing it for their own shits-and-giggles.
Back to the question at hand. As far as the two types, I think there's a responsibility to employ decisiveness regarding the time and place for one or the other or both at once depending on whether you're lifestyle or casual with the person. One must foster the sub and teach it; be it behavior, or more about themselves.

And as far as the "Bad Boys" thing, I would like to relay a conversation I had with my younger sister many years ago that really simplified the matter for Me. She said to Me that women often like the more abrasive types because often, women will find themselves upset about something they know they shouldn't be that upset about (weight, co-workers, who knows), or they are having a bad day and can't lighten up about it, or...you get the picture. Anyway, when that happens, sometimes all they need and want is someone to to tell them that they're being ridiculous and to knock it the fuck off rather than sit and try and talk it out or pamper them with bon-bons and poetry and cuddling.
Granted, if her dog had just been hit by a car and killed I know better than to glare at her and just say that she's being "silly about it."

(in reply to MstrssPassion)

Post #: 37

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/29/2007 9:58:45 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

Just wondering which type of dominant submissives prefer. In the vanilla world it appears there are many more women with cruel men than there are with caring ones. Does this carry over to bdsm circles as well? We all know the cliche' that women like bad boys, does that equate with mean?

I do not think that my Daddy is ever cruel to me even when he is in an act of S and M with me. I crave pain, so he is actually being loving when he inflicts it.

I do not like bad boys. I like really smart men that are interesting to be around and that make me laugh.

The only cruel thing he has ever done to me was tonight. He suggested that I wait until I go down there to get a swim suit instead of ordering it online... no woman wants to see her ass in a 360 mirror while her Dom looks on.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MellowSir)

Post #: 38

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/29/2007 10:07:01 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

I think the problem lies when he confuses nice with being kind of a sissy or trying to ingratiate himself with the women by constantly finding "nice" things to do for her. There is only so much nice a woman can stand and most of them already have friends who know what it's like to have a period so they don't need the kind of hoverer that will bring chocolate and midol and clip coupons from Bath and Body. (Not being literal here.... Imagery is part of all great literature)

I think you have a wonderful point here. It is not that we do not like "nice" men, but many of us do not want men that we perceive as "weak" and "needy" and "clingy". A "nice" guy that is willing to put up with shit just to keep a female will either lose her or end up being abused by her very often. It shows a lack of self respect to be that "nice".

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to smcontrol)

Post #: 39

RE: The sadistic dom vs the sensual dom - 4/30/2007 6:50:51 AM

Stranger1

Posts: 219
Joined: 4/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

You mistake casual annoyance for hatred, you don't have the talent nor the power to get me to hate you.

I find it distasteful when some have to build themselves up by tearing others down.

If I come in a say "I will create a fantasy world around you and anyone who doesn't do as I do is big meanie" you are tearing others down in order to build yourself up. I find you annoying because you get in the way of those of us who want to have genuine conversations filled with real expressions of ourselves, not overly inflated opinions designed to impress rather than educate.

The women here who come to me do not do so because I am perfect but because I am open and honest about both my strengths and my weaknesses.

Yes.

Being honest about who you are is best. Including the nasty bits-who knows, someone out there just may like those too. Making a fantasy construct and idealizing oeself can only lead to pain in the long run-better to drop pretenses and take the risk of being rejected for who you are-now.

Rather than later, when the mask slips-a it always will.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 40

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