Pentagon fabricated Lynch and Tillman stories

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cyberdude611 -> Pentagon fabricated Lynch and Tillman stories (4/25/2007 10:25:08 PM)
Tillman, Lynch accounts slammed By Tom Vanden Brook, USA TODAYWASHINGTON — The Pentagon lied to create heroes from Iraq and Afghanistan, former Army private Jessica Lynch and the brother of former NFL star and Army Ranger Pat Tillman told a House committee Tuesday. Kevin Tillman, who served in a Ranger unit with his brother, and Lynch testified as part of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee's investigation into inaccurate accounts of the battlefield actions of Lynch and Tillman. VIDEO: Brother claims military committed 'fraud' Army Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who had been in a nearby convoy when Tillman was killed by "friendly fire," testified that he was ordered not to tell Kevin Tillman how his brother died on April 22, 2004. Lynch was badly wounded in Iraq in 2003; Pat Tillman, a corporal, was killed in Afghanistan. Early versions of Lynch's capture and rescue, quoting unnamed U.S. officials, said Iraqi soldiers shot and stabbed Lynch, who fought back until she shot off her last round of ammunition and was captured. That made her seem like "little girl Rambo," Lynch said Tuesday. In truth, she said, she was hurt too badly to fight. The narrative that described Tillman's actions, for which he was awarded the Silver Star, "was utter fiction," Kevin Tillman said. DOCUMENTS: Emails and correspondence from the Tillman hearing (.pdf file) Though several officers immediately suspected that Tillman had been killed by his fellow troops, the Army initially reported he was killed by enemy gunfire. Five weeks later his family was told otherwise, a delay the Army said was due to procedural mistakes. Kevin Tillman accused the government Tuesday of "deliberate deception" to divert attention from bad news in Iraq, particularly the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. Revelations about Abu Ghraib came to light April 28, 2004, on CBS' 60 Minutes II and in the May 10, 2004, issue of The New Yorker. O'Neal, who was next to Tillman when he was killed, testified that he was "100% positive" that friendly fire killed Tillman. O'Neal said he was told he would "get in trouble" if he told Kevin Tillman that his brother was killed by U.S. troops. O'Neal also told the committee that the statement he filed on the incident had been altered. It was later used as part of the narrative supporting the medal Tillman was awarded. Last month, the military concluded that nine high-ranking Army officers, including four generals, made critical errors in reporting Tillman's death but that there was no cover-up of the facts. Tillman's military service and death attracted attention because he gave up a multimillion contract with the NFL's Arizona Cardinals to join the Army after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Lynch said she still suffers bladder and kidney problems from her injuries and needs a brace to stand. Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., said the hearing was intended to hold the government to account. Rep. Tom Davis of Virginia, the panel's ranking Republican, said evidence about Tillman's death had been destroyed. "The truth about Jessica Lynch and Patrick Tillman is heroic enough," Davis said. "There is no need to embellish it." http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-04-24-tillman-lynch_N.htm?csp=34

Vendaval -> RE: Pentagon fabricated Lynch and Tillman stories (4/26/2007 1:52:23 AM)
I have been following this story and it is very troubling. And yes, both Lynch and Tillman are heroic enough without the lies and cover-ups.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Pentagon fabricated Lynch and Tillman stories (4/30/2007 9:48:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Early versions of Lynch's capture and rescue, quoting unnamed U.S. officials, said Iraqi soldiers shot and stabbed Lynch, who fought back until she shot off her last round of ammunition and was captured. That made her seem like "little girl Rambo," Lynch said Tuesday. In truth, she said, she was hurt too badly to fight. The narrative that described Tillman's actions, for which he was awarded the Silver Star, "was utter fiction," Kevin Tillman said. The Tillman incident was wrong, but I do understand what probably happened. That still doesn't make it right, but it does make it understandable. It sounds more like a case of an out-of-control run of unintended consequences rather than a nattempt at propaganda, in the beginning. The Lynch story however, I think bears a little more digging before you "pin it" on the military. I did some digging to find the first stories about her "heroics" and found this USA Today story: Lynch comes home full of thanks Posted 7/22/2003 10:44 P By Charisse Jones, Lynch had been mythicized during the war. An initial report in The Washington Post said Lynch had killed several Iraqis. Later, government officials said she had killed no one. It appears that The Washington Post was the first to circulate the "heroic" parts of her story. I'm pretty sure this is the article: 'She Was Fighting to the Death' Details Emerging of W. Va. Soldier's Capture and Rescue By Susan Schmidt and Vernon Loeb Washington Post Staff Writers Thursday, April 3, 2003 Pfc. Jessica Lynch, rescued Tuesday from an Iraqi hospital, fought fiercely and shot several enemy soldiers after Iraqi forces ambushed the Army's 507th Ordnance Maintenance Company, firing her weapon until she ran out of ammunition, U.S. officials said yesterday. Lynch, a 19-year-old supply clerk, continued firing at the Iraqis even after she sustained multiple gunshot wounds and watched several other soldiers in her unit die around her in fighting March 23, one official said. Lynch was also stabbed when Iraqi forces closed in on her position, the official said, noting that initial intelligence reports indicated that she had been stabbed to death. No official gave any indication yesterday, however, that Lynch's wounds had been life-threatening. Several officials cautioned that the precise sequence of events is still being determined, and that further information will emerge as Lynch is debriefed. Reports thus far are based on battlefield intelligence, they said, which comes from monitored communications and from Iraqi sources in Nasiriyah whose reliability has yet to be assessed. Pentagon officials said they had heard "rumors" of Lynch's heroics but had no confirmation. A careful reading of the "reports" should point out several things to you: 1. A single unnamed "US official" is sourced for all the hype, yet the bulk of "Pentagon sources" warn that nothing was known for certain, and very well could be false. 2. All the other "US and Pentagon sources" warn that any information is unreliable, before the article and false information is published by The Washington Post reporters. 3. Why would you keep secret the name of a "US official" praising a US soldier? Is this really something that has to be kept quiet at the time? My conclusion is that the reporters were simply "reporting" rumors heard around the TOC, likely by lower-ranking individuals engaged in chat, and ran with it despite official warnings about it's lack of credibility. And this is somehow a military "lie" or "cover up"? This is the military's fault? Sounds like nothing more than poor, sensationalistic reporting on a couple of reporters who had little or no clue how the military - or human nature - works. FirmKY

Nastgargoyle -> RE: Pentagon fabricated Lynch and Tillman stories (4/30/2007 2:04:58 PM)
The actual release of information on this, the sequence of events and such as they occured and the way things seemed to change from one day to the next make me tend to believe that the fabrication part of the story can be laid at the feet of the sensationilists, sometimes laughingly reffered to as journalists, who shoot for headlines instead of providing the news. If there had been an actual fabrication of the events as the article claimed, then I tend to believe that the military would have have been able to blandly stare back and provide as much 'evidience' and 'documentation' as would have been required to support their version of events. No seems this one has to be chalked up to gunslinging reporters shooting from the hip, missing the mark, and now trying really really hard to move the target so they can convince the public they actually hit it.

cyberdude611 -> RE: Pentagon fabricated Lynch and Tillman stories (4/30/2007 3:00:00 PM)
Whether the military intentionally fabricated it or not, I think the media should get some blame here as well. They seemed to just run wild with these two stories.

Nastgargoyle -> RE: Pentagon fabricated Lynch and Tillman stories (4/30/2007 3:13:51 PM)
But... isn't it some sort of SIN anymore to even insinuate that a reporter might not have all the facts of a story to begin with and that most of what they say is just sensationalism designed to draw attention, make headlines, and improve viewer ratings? We can't say bad things about journalists I think regardless of what they say to us, social morality might kick in and we'd have to start making Everybody actually act and do their jobs responsibily, heavens forbide.

domiguy -> RE: Pentagon fabricated Lynch and Tillman stories (4/30/2007 3:45:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Whether the military intentionally fabricated it or not, I think the media should get some blame here as well. They seemed to just run wild with these two stories. This is true. The media has been guilty of running with stories and not questioning what they have been given and fed. However, when it comes to the military it is a little more difficult to get to the bottom... The media are handed reports which usually are difficult to substantiate immediately..Due to the fact you are usually only allowed access to the higher ups that are perpetuating the fraud and it takes time and serious effort to reach those that can verify or debunk a story. The end result is that is it atrocious conduct....The parents of Pat Tillmam have for the most part refused to speak on the circumstances of his death....And the Bush administration should be extremely thankful for their silence.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Pentagon fabricated Lynch and Tillman stories (4/30/2007 4:02:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy The media has been guilty of running with stories and not questioning what they have been given and fed. However, when it comes to the military it is a little more difficult to get to the bottom... The media are handed reports which usually are difficult to substantiate immediately..Due to the fact you are usually only allowed access to the higher ups that are perpetuating the fraud and it takes time and serious effort to reach those that can verify or debunk a story. So ... since it's hard ... the reporters are given a pass for making stuff up? And that's the military's fault, because a reporter can't or won't take the effort required to correctly source, confirm, and then report the facts? Tell me again ... what the hell is it that reporters are suppose to do for a living? FirmKY

Nastgargoyle -> RE: Pentagon fabricated Lynch and Tillman stories (4/30/2007 4:19:54 PM)
From the annals of personal experience: While watching the news during that last israli action, I started watching a reporter doing a live report on what combat action was going on and explaining how close he was to the fighting, and sorts of vehicles he could and had seen, and how many troops were walking by him. This was an american journalist by the way on Fox news I think it was. What was troublesome for Me about it was that by looking right over his shoulder, I was able to pick out enough of a road sign, that I could pull the location he was standing in up on My computer, and by going by his provided information, I could set My fingertip on the positions of many troops without him 'actually' having told me where they were. So that sort of explained it to Me really well Firmhand, the job of a damn reporter is to get soldiers killed to make headlines, and where they can't find a soldier to get killed they'll take whatever they grab and twist it into a headline. For all the effort that goes into the actual investigative side of journalism anymore, You might as well read the National Enquirer as the New York Post. The quality of writing is roughly the same but the pictures are generally more entertaining.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Pentagon fabricated Lynch and Tillman stories (4/30/2007 6:27:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nastgargoyle From the annals of personal experience: While watching the news during that last israli action, I started watching a reporter doing a live report on what combat action was going on and explaining how close he was to the fighting, and sorts of vehicles he could and had seen, and how many troops were walking by him. This was an american journalist by the way on Fox news I think it was. What was troublesome for Me about it was that by looking right over his shoulder, I was able to pick out enough of a road sign, that I could pull the location he was standing in up on My computer, and by going by his provided information, I could set My fingertip on the positions of many troops without him 'actually' having told me where they were. So that sort of explained it to Me really well Firmhand, the job of a damn reporter is to get soldiers killed to make headlines, and where they can't find a soldier to get killed they'll take whatever they grab and twist it into a headline. For all the effort that goes into the actual investigative side of journalism anymore, You might as well read the National Enquirer as the New York Post. The quality of writing is roughly the same but the pictures are generally more entertaining. I pretty much agree with your last paragraph, Nastgargoyle. However, there is a growing "new journalist" that the 'net has made possible. Two examples in the Iraq war are Micheal Yon and Micheal Totten. I too have had several personal, up close experiences with reporters, and have never found them to be that terribly interested in getting the facts straight, but more in getting a slant on things to get a controversy going. FirmKY

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