Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (Full Version)

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Sicarius -> Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 1:47:04 AM)

I found this article fairly interesting ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yahoo_News

The planet is just the right size, might have water in liquid form, and in galactic terms is relatively nearby at 120 trillion miles away. But the star it closely orbits, known as a "red dwarf," is much smaller, dimmer and cooler than our sun.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070425/ap_on_sc/habitable_planet



Rule -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 2:57:31 AM)

That planet does not exist.



NakedSavage -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 3:07:25 AM)

Another world for humans to destroy? I feel sorry for any future planet.



Sicarius -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 3:10:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedSavage

Another world for humans to destroy? I feel sorry for any future planet.


Well, perhaps.  If I had to guess, we'll probably set our sights on more local venues first, though.  [;)]

-Sicarius



Arpig -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 4:04:11 AM)

quote:

That planet does not exist.

let me guess...its all a hoax



juliaoceania -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 8:31:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

That planet does not exist.

let me guess...its all a hoax


No, it is not a hoax, but it is conjecture designed to get people to read the story.

quote:

WASHINGTON - For the first time astronomers have discovered a planet outside our solar system that is potentially habitable, with Earth-like temperatures, a find researchers described Tuesday as a big step in the search for "life in the universe."




aSlavesLife -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 8:49:48 AM)

I have to agree with julia here that it is conjecture designed to lure in readers. It is nice that astronomers are finally starting to find planets in the Goldilocks range, though. For a while there it was looking like the only extrasolar planets were going to be gas giants outside of that range.



Rule -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 9:24:48 AM)

None of these alleged 'radial velocity' weird extrasolar planets exist. There is a difference between a fact and the fairy tale interpretation that is attached to that fact. It is merely an assumption by inept astronomers without any comprehension of the nature of scientific evidence that the periodical shifts in the spectra of said stars are indicative of them being orbited by a planet or planets. The only credible evidence that one of these alleged planets exists will be a photograph that shows the planet separated from the image point of the star. No such photograph exists and no such photograph will ever be made - because these planets do not exist. Only inferior minds attach value to the uncorroborated delusions of these extrasolar planets astronomers. Ask them for incontrovertible proof - a photograph - and they have nothing to show.



OedipusRexIt -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 9:28:06 AM)

It is more than conjecture.  The cool thing about physics is that it allows you to know something exists, without having to hold it in your hand.

Not only is a habitable planet out there, literally millions of them are out there.  Millions may even be too small a number.  Fact.



juliaoceania -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 9:31:25 AM)

I am sure there are millions of habitable planets, but the scientists said

quote:

There's still a lot that is unknown about the new planet, which could be deemed inhospitable to life once more is known about it. And it's worth noting that scientists' requirements for habitability count Mars in that category: a size relatively similar to Earth's with temperatures that would permit liquid water. However, this is the first outside our solar system that meets those standards.


May, might, could be... all words that are used when one presenting a lot of conjecture about a topic.



sexy2sum -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 9:48:06 AM)

I wonder what basis Rule uses for his assumption that these planets do not exist.  It is mathematically improbible that these planets are not out there.  As humans we make assumptions based upon our preconcieved notions of what is possible and impossible.  These notions do not hold up on alien worlds.  It is very likely that there are highly developed beings that "breath" carbon dioxide, or possibly, do not breathe at all.  On our own planet, we have micro organisms that can survive in tempuratures above the boiling point.  The most fascinating concept of our universe is that there are so many possiblities, our simple minds cannot even concieve most of them.  The only way that these planets do not exist is if you believe in intellegent design.  If that is the case, this discussion is pointless.  The photgraph that Rule is requesting, and claims cannot be produced, just goes to show how some people cannot or will not think outside of their own assumptions.  There is no "photograph" for evolution or the theory of relativity, but most reputible scientists do not dispute these theories. 



juliaoceania -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 9:51:41 AM)

 
quote:

I wonder what basis Rule uses for his assumption that these planets do not exist.

If it does not fit in someone's preconceived ideas about something they will tend to dismiss any evidence to the contrary of what they believe. It is only when a person dismisses everything they know and start over from scratch that real "learning" can begin. That is often a painful process.



MissBabydoll -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 10:10:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexy2sum

I wonder what basis Rule uses for his assumption that these planets do not exist.  It is mathematically improbible that these planets are not out there.  As humans we make assumptions based upon our preconcieved notions of what is possible and impossible.  These notions do not hold up on alien worlds.  It is very likely that there are highly developed beings that "breath" carbon dioxide, or possibly, do not breathe at all.  On our own planet, we have micro organisms that can survive in tempuratures above the boiling point.  The most fascinating concept of our universe is that there are so many possiblities, our simple minds cannot even concieve most of them.  The only way that these planets do not exist is if you believe in intellegent design.  If that is the case, this discussion is pointless.  The photgraph that Rule is requesting, and claims cannot be produced, just goes to show how some people cannot or will not think outside of their own assumptions.  There is no "photograph" for evolution or the theory of relativity, but most reputible scientists do not dispute these theories. 


Well said. A vast amount of science has always been based on inference from indirect evidence. Most of modern fundamental physics and cosmology has been constructed on this basis--and theory after theory built on such inference has turned out to be correct once empirical testing was possible. The same has been true of evolutionary biology. (My mom is a biologist...) Neptune was originally found because the orbit of Uranus did not conform to the predictions of Newton's mechanics--it was being pulled further away from the sun at intervals that suggested there was another large planet beyond it. Better telescopes (using Newton's design!) were built, and lo and behold, there it was--the eighth planet. The whole history of modern science is full of this kind of thing. Demanding photographs is naive empiricism and suggests some sort of extrascientific agenda, probably creationist.



outlier -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 10:34:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

If it does not fit in someone's preconceived ideas about something they will tend to dismiss any evidence to the contrary of what they believe. It is only when a person dismisses everything they know and start over from scratch that real "learning" can begin. That is often a painful process.


Julia,

This is defensible:
quote:

If it does not fit in someone's preconceived ideas about something they will tend to dismiss any evidence to the contrary of what they believe.


But this:
quote:

It is only when a person dismisses everything they know and start over from scratch that real "learning" can begin..


I do not think you want to try to defend as stated.  Perhaps you should
more carefully rephrase it.

Outlier



Rule -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 10:38:37 AM)

You all do not know what constitutes evidence. You'd rather believe the fairy tales of feeble minded astronomers.
 
Prove me wrong. Show me a photograph. You cannot. Nor will you ever be able to. Not if you live ten thousand years and visit such a star in person. Not if you build a telescope as large as the orbit of Neptune. Those alleged radial velocity interpretation planets do not exist.



Casie -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 10:45:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedSavage

Another world for humans to destroy? I feel sorry for any future planet.

I also feel bad for any future planets but I also have survivle instinct. If it came to slowly destorying another planet or human kind dying out. Destroy away lol.



juliaoceania -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 10:48:25 AM)

quote:

I do not think you want to try to defend as stated.  Perhaps you should
more carefully rephrase it.

Outlier


It was only when I started over from scratch and questioned everything I knew that my real learning began. I still stumble with dismissing everything I know, but in order to learn the things I wanted to know about it was necessary.

Now the above is not a scientific statement. It is my personal journey, so I will take out  people , and just make the note that for myself this is true... make of it what you will.



juliaoceania -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 10:53:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

You all do not know what constitutes evidence. You'd rather believe the fairy tales of feeble minded astronomers.
 
Prove me wrong. Show me a photograph. You cannot. Nor will you ever be able to. Not if you live ten thousand years and visit such a star in person. Not if you build a telescope as large as the orbit of Neptune. Those alleged radial velocity interpretation planets do not exist.


The thing is, you are dismissing what they state without evidence of your own...Your first post on this thread very much screams statements made without evidence.

quote:

That planet does not exist.

 
Now you can argue about whether or not that planet exists with your own math, your own theories of physics and cosmology, but for the laypeople here (I am one of them), it is basically your word against NASA scientists that seem to have more to support their view than you do... just sayin



Rule -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 11:35:12 AM)

There is plenty of evidence to support my statement, but why list all that evidence when most people cannot distinguish between a fact and an interpretation? Anyone who believes the fairy tales of such a feeble minded astronomer is simply not qualified to judge the scientific merit of a hypothesis.
 
But if you want a bit of evidence: these weird alleged planets are all discovered around weird stars, that are either red cool dwarfs or that are stars that are too hot for their type.
 
The cool red dwarfs are a significant fraction of these stars and they all have only one of these alleged planets orbiting them at distances that are much closer to them than Mercury is to our sun. So the only planet that we are familiar with to compare these star huggers - also called 'hot Jupiters' - to is Mercury, but the perfectly circular orbits and mass of these alleged star huggers are nothing like the highly eccentric orbit and miniscule mass of Mercury. If one had asked any astronomer before 1990 whether such crazy planets could exist, they all would have answered with an unequivocal "No". These planets therefore cannot possibly exist.
 
A number of the other weird stars have also been alleged to be orbited by a single 'hot Jupiter' planet, as well as by one or two other alleged planets in crazy orbits (either perfectly circular or highly eccentric). Now since I have already argued that the alleged 'hot Jupiters' of the cool dwarf stars cannot possibly exist, I have to infer that the alleged 'hot Jupiters' of the weird hot stars cannot possibly exist either. From this in turn I infer that the one or two other planets that orbit the same star cannot exist either. And from this in turn I infer that the one or two alleged planets that are thought to orbit the hot stars without a known 'hot Jupiter' do not exist either.
 
 
 



FirmhandKY -> RE: Potentially "Habitable" Extrasolar Planet Found ... (4/25/2007 12:02:50 PM)

uh, Rule ... you seem to be making as many, if not more assumptions about there not being planets, as are being made about being planets.

Just saying ....

FirmKY



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