Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (Full Version)

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littlesarbonn -> Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/24/2007 10:52:03 PM)

This may sound strange, but as a service submissive, I usually don't discuss a lot of the harder aspects of bdsm. Sure, I'm a submissive, and I love being tied up and tortured like the next guy, but for some reason service submissives kind of fall into this really weird category that I generally don't believe exists. It's this fantasy some women have (based on this fantasy that wannabe submissives sell to them as the reason why they should be integrated into their lives...before springing on them their desire for more intimate and stronger action) that service submissives are ONLY interested in doing housework and that sort of stuff. That's ALL they need.

I'll let you in on a little secret. That's not all they need. I'm about as close to the dedicated service submissive you're going to find, but there are a couple of mandatory things necessary to making such a relationship with a dominant woman work.

1. For one, it needs to be a woman I'm serving who is actually using me for her needs. I know this sounds kind of strange, but I can't tell you how many times I get "offers" from either guys (which I have no desire to serve) or from women who then tell me that my interaction with them will be minimal, or that I will be communicating with her through her male secretary (or whatever title she gives the guy). In other words, I'm going to be serving "her" by serving her male submissive (or dominant) but that should be all I need to make me happy. If there's no woman in the picture, then why even be involved? I could be home cleaning my own place, or playing world of warcraft, or writing the All American Novel.

2. There needs to be actual domination involved. Cleaning is great, but to be honest, if I was so into cleaning only, I wouldn't really need a dominant, and I'd be at home cleaning my own home, or working for a cleaning company and actually getting paid for it. A submissive needs to be reminded that there's someone actually in charge of him (or her). Quite often, the real way to do that is to feel the dominance first hand. I once had a woman tell me she wanted me to be her slave, which to her meant that I'd come in and clean her apartment when she wasn't there. She'd have me come in on days when she was "playing" with her submissives she tied up and tortured at another location so she wouldn't get in the way of my cleaning. That was going to be the ONLY interaction we were going to have (me cleaning alone). Yeah, that one got me all hot and excited for the two seconds I considered that potential relationship.

3. Now this is just me, but I suspect it's not just me. But every now and then I need to be reminded physically that I'm a submissive and that I'm into this thing called bdsm. That usually means a Mistress who is interested in actually playing with me once in awhile. If that's never going to happen, and I'm not even talking all of the time or even most of the time, but if that's not even a potentiality, then I'm not the submissive for her.

What's significant about this is that there are a gazillion guys who pretend that they don't need any of these things, but they are "really" submissives and will do everything needed to be done with nothing else in return. Generally, they're lying to you. Yeah, sorry. They are. They won't admit it, and you'll keep pursuing this fantasy because somewhere in the past, some woman said "I found exactly that", much like some guy in Utah won the lottery, so it looks like all you have to do is buy a lottery ticket and somehow you're going to be a multimillionaire. Yeah.

This leads to one of the causes of the "why aren't submissives sincere" complaint. I think we often talk around this, and we erect bizarre solutions to this, like making it impossible for anyone to penetrate the wall of obstacles that one must cross through in hopes of proving oneself sincere. This just continues to feed the original problem of making it more and more difficult to find the person one hopes to contact.



BitchGoddessD -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/24/2007 11:35:29 PM)

I appreciate your honesty as well as your point of view.  I have not personally experienced true no-strings housework.  Partly because I too want more.  I struggle with striking the right balance that satisfies both parties.  I do make someone work to get to know Me not some fantasy.  It may seem like too much work but I'm putting forth 100% effort.  I accept nothing less from others. 



acquiesce93 -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/24/2007 11:51:25 PM)

I think for most dommes, when men approach them with no-service housework offers, we tend to think they either just want a free and interesting place to stay, or are generally just not being honest in what they actually want, and want more.
I find both to be rather pathetic.  As to if real no-service housework exists, though I haven't had one myself nor do I want one, I've been in the home of a couple that has a truly housework-only sissymaid. She's actually a financial contributor to the household as well. They're all quite happy. So I guess it can work for some. 



WhiplashSmile -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/24/2007 11:53:07 PM)

Excellent points you made here in regards to service based submissives.  This is why at times I hate labels because of the sterotyping going on.  I see that you refer to yourself as being a service submissive.  Have you considered perhaps not even using a label since you encounter stereotyping problems?   Some of the Dommes you are encountering may be blindly making a mistake in their approach to you.   Many times us Dom/me types are open to exploring things with different types of submissives. 

Right now, I'm open to a relationship with different types of submissives/slaves or even the right Domme.  When interacting with somebody for the first time, I tend to look at the labels they place on themselves.  How they describe themselves, if I feel there is a place for them in my life I will express it as best I can.

I'm actually open to exploring new dynamics, activities and areas in the BDSM lifestyle itself.  I do have a core set things I want and expect, everything else is optional.   Perhaps this makes me appear too flexible.   I suspect there are Dommes out there that are flexible as well.   They simply misunderstand your label.

I've made a few mistakes in misunderstanding a couple of labels myself.  Guilty as charged for my own ignorance.. I've responded to a couple of profiles while my head was shoved deep inside a stereotype image.  The idea of exploring some new facets really gets my brain juices going.   I have in fact learned a lot about some of these new facets I'm open to exploring.  Letting go or having a realization of stereotyping can be an eye opener.



MariaB -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/25/2007 12:29:44 AM)

Hi littlesarbonn
I think this happens to the ‘service submissive’ quiet a lot. I had an ss for 2 years and he was fantastic but at one stage I decided to temporarily loan him out to two other Mistresses. He worked his little socks off for them but that’s it. One went out and he told me at a later date that the other had him doing a very dirty maintenance job and had to pay for the parts that were needed! I was really cross when I found out and he was never loaned out again.

Its difficult putting yourself out as an ‘ss’ because a lot of Mistresses will think that is all you desire to do and so you need to find a way of explaining.

Good luck.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/25/2007 7:10:46 AM)

The good news is that there are plenty of excellent dominants who not only already realize that this is more like reality, but can easily tell when a sub is trying to just sound cool versus actually being sincere- we're not the ones who post bitching about fakes, we're too busy enjoying the good ones :)



thetammyjo -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/25/2007 7:50:21 AM)

The "trick" (if you wish to call it that) is to be honest about what you need. Be honest with yourself and your potential dom (which it sounds like you are doing all ready Littlesarbon).

I have had one submissive who claimed all he wanted was to do the cleaning, yardwork, and mundane tasks. I pushed him to be very clear on what he wanted and he admited he wanted me to inspect his work.

That seemed suspicious to me but this was six years ago and I was less experienced then and had never had anyone tell me that they just wanted to do housework and yardwork for me.

To make a long story short -- he lied to me (probably to himself as well). After about two months or so he flipped out and said I wasn't respecting him as much as my other submissives. That was crap -- I did more than inspect his work, I praised it, I offered him other rewards and he turned them all down.

Needless to say I have never believed anyone after this who claimed to not need more.



Jasmyn -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/25/2007 8:35:45 AM)

Sarbonn an excellent post. 

I have stated before how I think the label 'service submissive' does the submissive male a disservice and stopped buying into it a longtime ago.   Whether it is a fantasy fed to dominant women or dominant women have helped create the illusion, I haven't quite worked out.  Though there does seem to be a lot of women who do think a submissive happy to offer service is free labour and little else.  Completely perplexed when the sub say's it's not working for them.

Are there exceptions to the rule... of course. ..




sunfleur -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/25/2007 8:37:36 AM)

i think it's all in how you define yourself.   one of the things i enjoy about this lifestyle is.. you can take from it what you need.

i consider myself a 'serving subbie' because i enjoy taking things off of the already full plate that most Masters have.   for my D/s friends... those i dont play with but enjoy the company of, i'll do pretty much any task they ask if i can.  just because i like to be helpful.

sunfleur



alivingdoll -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/25/2007 12:44:49 PM)

I call myself a domestic sub, but not really sure if thats the correct term . I just know i'm drawn to strict men who have full control of situations that give me specific routines to follow and if i don't theirs correction involved .

The reward is the instant gradification of his satisfaction of my completed task be it > praise , pat on the head even a great job his smile will do . I call that the embers stage the full on fire stage is sensation play bondage and all that yummy stuff.That's the motivator that drives me to this lifestyle .The domestic act is an exchange for the play both need to be within the dynamics.I've never been able to just arrive and play there has to be that tit for tat with the service side I have to earn the session if that makes sense ?

    When i'm not in an active exchange with a dom/master i've noticed I will behold myself to employers give 100% without their knowledge .I'll find myself blending  the dynamics I need to get my fix use them in their kindness or sternness to continue the process .like a proxy master if that makes sense?I guess that's unconsentual d/s lol

If I can't find the sensation release i'll find the verbal, either way that part of me get's fed i guess I incorp the dynamics without giving it much thought in my day to day life . now I sound like a vampire lol  smiling here I have no fangs
                               ~~~Doll
  



Sirandlittle1 -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/25/2007 4:06:04 PM)

Thankyou littlesarbon. Thats a very educational post for me. Ive been toying/we've been toying with the notion of ss to feed my need to top. I cant begin to imagine how i might gain from the service of someone, if i wasnt there to experience it live? go figure?

Personally, im a person that believes that no act is altruistic. I dont see how service sub could be any different to the rest of the human race. There's a need there somewhere being filled. Or they leave i guess, its not exactly rocket science.

But there is a person on this site, who holds the belief that he is service sub only. Who contradicts your opinion. Perhaps he'll pipe up in this thread too.
little1



Kitte9 -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/25/2007 6:26:30 PM)

If anyone finds out that these 'service subs' are real, I have a house that needs regular cleaning.
*s*



Elorin -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/25/2007 6:58:23 PM)

sarbonn
Would you be happy with a situation where the Domina was home the entire time you were cleaning, when you first arrived there was a small ritual placing a collar around your neck, and after each task was accomplished you were expected to tell her it was done and have her evaluate your work? In context, the Domina would also be willing to take you with her to play parties and play there, and engage in small acts of S&M during your service time, but not do elaborate scenes when you were in service.

Would you be willing to arrive 45 minutes before the domina and get the cleaning out of the way so that when she arrived you were able to do something along the lines of body service, running a bath, scrubbing her back, brushing her hair, painting her toenails? Or arrive early so that when she arrived home she was free to play with you? Would it make a difference if you knew that she only had 2 free hours for the day, and it was a matter of cleaning while you were home alone at your house, and getting quality time with her during those two hours, or cleaining while she was there and getting less time with her?

~E



mp072004 -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/25/2007 7:32:09 PM)

Littlesarbonn, I agree with one of your general points: that people don't get what they want and often behave dysfunctionally when they are not clear about what they want, and that people, including service submissives, are responsible for articulating what they want. Hear hear.

It's also true that most servants want some contact with the recipient, and some feedback (gratitude, criticism, very obvious indifference-- whatever is appropriate).

It's also true that service submissives get a bad name because of bottoms or play-oriented submissives or fetishists posing as service submissives and then radically revising their self-presentations once they have "hooked" a dominant, so it's important for people actually seeking service situations (as providers or receivers) to be even more precise.

The above are all points I would endorse. However, I'm not crazy about a point that I seem to see in your message--that nobody would agree to be the service provider in a play-free, service-only situation, and that it is mere fantasy to think that someone would. That seems to invalidate service-only situations, or degrade them to the status of urban legends. That's surprising, and it seems to have a ring of the derision of SM-only relationships by certain people who practice d/s. I would contradict it factually, and I would argue that even without counterexamples, it's probably not wise to say that nobody, nowhere, never, would do x. For the record, I've had successful relationships in which play was off the table, in which service, and not generally intimate physical service, nor fetish-fulfilling service (i.e. asking a foot fetishist to give a pedicure) was the order of the day. Might the providers have wanted something else? Sure--in some cases, I know they did, because they communicated it, (and I said no, and they decided that they were okay with that) and in other cases, I don't know. However, wanting things you're not getting in a given relationship doesn't mean you can't find it good or fulfilling to have a relationship in which some of your desires are met.

Monica



Aubre -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/25/2007 7:51:22 PM)

I get the feeling sometimes there are vanilla women who aren't really kinky but think they've found a way to get a bunch of chores done without having to pay anyone to do it by looking for submissive men on sites like this.



themischievous1 -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/26/2007 5:32:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aubre

I get the feeling sometimes there are vanilla women who aren't really kinky but think they've found a way to get a bunch of chores done without having to pay anyone to do it by looking for submissive men on sites like this.


I'm sure there probably are and you're correct. But there are also numerous "doms" who are really vanilla posing as kinky, who desire an unpaid maid willing to provide free sexual favors as well.



Aubre -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/26/2007 7:53:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: themischievous1

I'm sure there probably are and you're correct. But there are also numerous "doms" who are really vanilla posing as kinky, who desire an unpaid maid willing to provide free sexual favors as well.


Good point.



cloudboy -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/26/2007 9:19:34 AM)

If leading as a service sub hasn't helped you connect with FEMDOM over the past ten (10) years, then you should change your tack, as was suggested before. The consensus advice you got the last time you broached this topic was to dump the "service" from submissive. Somehow women don't get very excited or aroused at the prospect of man wanting to take out their trash, run errands, and keep house.

Get a good relationship going first, then introduce your service generosity after that.

I agree with Aakasha and many other FEMDOMs here, who say men need to relate to them as a virile, interesting, outgoing guy #1 and then as a respectful, kinky, submissive #2.

Everyone with half a brain understands the emptiness of LT, no strings housework, save for the now dearly departed VeronicaofML and the misbegotten DOMs and Dommes who expectantly siphon off free labor from others under the guise of BDSM without kink.



AAkasha -> RE: Strict, no nonsense control for service submissives (4/26/2007 9:33:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

If leading as a service sub hasn't helped you connect with FEMDOM over the past ten (10) years, then you should change your tack, as was suggested before. The consensus advice you got the last time you broached this topic was to dump the "service" from submissive. Somehow women don't get very excited or aroused at the prospect of man wanting to take out their trash, run errands, and keep house.




I agree with the previous advice also.  I think a sub positioning himself as a service submissive first and foremost (if he is looking for a longterm, romantic relationship) would be like a vanilla guy positioning himself (purposely) like "Hey ladies, I'm the safe, pushover-type, introverted nice guy who you can treat like shit, break his heart and tell about all the bad boys you fucked and I'll still follow you like a lost puppy; I am the guy who always is a girl's "friend" but never "boyfriend" - let's meet."

If you want love, lust and passion you have to attract a different type of lady.  Men who advertise as service submissive attract the users, and more of them based on how dependable and non-sexual they present themselves.
Akasha



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