House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush.

House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 2:24:31 PM)
quote: • Funds more than $90 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. • Begins withdrawal of troops from Iraq on Oct. 1, with the goal of ending combat by April 1, 2008. • Requires troop withdrawal to begin July 1 if President Bush cannot certify that the Iraqi government is making progress in disarming militias, reducing sectarian violence and forging political agreements. • Restricts foreign aid spending in Iraq if benchmarks are not met. • Allows Bush to keep troops in Iraq after the withdrawal date to conduct counterterrorism missions, protect U.S. infrastructure and personnel and train Iraqi security forces. • Bars deployment of troops not deemed "fully mission capable" and limits combat tours to one year for Army units and seven months for Marines. Allows president to waive these restrictions. • Adds about $25 billion not requested by Bush for medical care for troops and veterans, aid to the victims of Hurricane Katrina, farm disaster relief and other programs. • Raise the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour. Includes $4.8 billion in tax cuts for small businesses over 10 years. Ouch. Vetoing this is going to make Bush look like he's holding the troops hostage until all of his demands are met.

Mercnbeth -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 2:50:29 PM)
Others may see if from this vantage point: quote: Democratic leaders who are having trouble rounding up enough votes to pass the $124-billion emergency spending bill have resorted to a time-honored tradition: offering up goodies in exchange for a vote. That includes $25-million for spinach growers, $74-million for peanut storage and $5-million for tropical fish. Ranchers and farmers in Colorado would benefit from billions of dollars for drought recovery in Republican Marilyn Musgrave's district. Spinach farmers would benefit from millions meant to offset losses from last year's contamination outbreak in California Democratic Rep. Sam Farr's district. Hurricane victims would benefit from billions of aid in Louisiana Republican Rep. Bobby Jindal's district. Rep. Charles Boustany Jr., another Louisiana Republican, spent more than a year trying to get money to prevent saltwater from damaging rice fields in his district. Fifteen million dollars - twice as much as he wanted - showed up in the Iraq spending bill. Source: http://www.sptimes.com/2007/03/23/Worldandnation/Iraq_vote_brings_back.shtml Senator Harry Reid is quoted by saying "The war is lost." Agree or disagree with his position but the cowards who hide behind pork grants to secure votes should put it out in the open. Why be so cowardly as to associate funding a study of tropical fish to gain a vote for an issue so clear? Senator Reid and those who agree with him have the power to end funding today. If they are strong in their convictions and not politically motivated why not do so? Fund the retreat for the "lost war". Don't pay bribe money for positive votes on a funding bill that makes the soldiers dieing for an unworthy people pawns in a political agenda. Fargle - you see this as President Bush holding the troops hostage? From who? It seems to me the hostage holders are the Senators supporting a pork propped proposal. At best a veto will be politically polarizing. Meanwhile, USA soldiers die and are maimed daily. Cutting off ongoing funding and funding the retreat is in the hands of the man who declared the war lost. Why is he making his logical withdrawn contingent upon spending $5 Million to study tropical fish? Was that part of President Bush's hostage holding? Are the fish going to be sent to the troops?

farglebargle -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 4:45:04 PM)
quote: Fargle - you see this as President Bush holding the troops hostage? From who? From their families. quote: It seems to me the hostage holders are the Senators supporting a pork propped proposal. At best a veto will be politically polarizing. Meanwhile, USA soldiers die and are maimed daily. Bush doesn't HAVE to Veto the bill. He can accept the Will of The People, and get down to work. He has MONTHS to succeed, and the best defense is a good offense. He shouldn't waste time JUST BECAUSE HE'S AFRAID OF BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE. I look at this as perhaps the FIRST time Bush has ever been held accountable in his entire lifetime. And it's good for the Nation for the Executive to be reminded that The People are in charge.

farglebargle -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 4:51:51 PM)
quote: the cowards who hide behind pork grants to secure votes should put it out in the open It IS out in the open. SIMPLY READ THE BILL. Anyone who has a problem with the give-and-take of the Legislative Process, I would submit, REALLY has a problem with our Democratic Traditions, and perhaps should actually learn how the big boys play in the big leagues. It's not like Rangel isn't totally up front with "Because this was how we were able to get the votes from the people who wanted an IMMEDIATE, UNCONDITIONAL withdrawal". It's HOW the system is designed to work, if it TRULY offends anyone I suggest they can always drop out and join the libertarian hippies.

Mercnbeth -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 5:10:48 PM)
quote: Anyone who has a problem with the give-and-take of the Legislative Process, I would submit, REALLY has a problem with our Democratic Traditions, and perhaps should actually learn how the big boys play in the big leagues. "Boys" and "Play" Fargle, what I'd saying is neither should be referenced when MEN are dieing. If you don't have a problem with games and play on these terms we don't have that in common. But you are correct, I find the issue too clear and opportunity too easy to let these people, alleged to be elected with a "mandate", to "play". Sorry if that's too pragmatic a position for you to support. I don't have a political party's agenda in mind, making it an easy position to maintain. I can appreciate that if it weren't the case I'd see it your way. Read the bill? I even understand it. In simplest terms I agree with you; "Boys are playing games". In this case the game generates pork spending for the Representatives districts while some other boys wave a flag of surrender while in their hands is the ability to stop the funding today. I won't support the game as you do. In general terms I may agree with you. I don't agree with the process, but it is "how the system is designed to work". This isn't the "system". This is a special funding bill. It became a haven for "bridges to nowhere" when our elected officials had to bribe fellow club members for their votes. The Bill represents the worst of the system.

farglebargle -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 5:17:55 PM)
quote: This is a special funding bill. Yeah, that's another thing that pisses me off. Bush ALREADY went to Congress for money for the War. Congress ALREADY gave him the money he asked for. Bush WASTED THAT MONEY, and is now looking for a handout to cover up for his continuing Fiscal Irresponsibility. How often you give your kids money, when they're throwing it away?

DanTheTanMan -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 5:38:54 PM)
The will of the people is not to surrender, the will of the democrats is surrender, it has been their policy for 100 years. The only reason dems won anything was that conservatives stayed home, 78k votes different and gop would still run things. They didn't want to stand up to stalin, hitler, Mao, or any other evil. They are simply cowards cheering on the terrorists. What Ried and the dems are doing is simple treason, they hate when America wins and will do everything they can to prevent it. The only democrat worth a damn is Liberman

farglebargle -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 5:42:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DanTheTanMan The will of the people is not to surrender, the will of the democrats is surrender, it has been their policy for 100 years. The only reason dems won anything was that conservatives stayed home, Well, why not? After being fucked over by the RNC in their appeal to the Religious Fundies? The RNC ain't no friend to us Conservatives, buddy. They're WORSE than the Democrats. At least the Democrats are honest about what they are. EVERY "Conservative" who supports Bush, ain't no "Conservative". Neocon Party Whore, MAYBE. Real Conservatives Hate Bush for his Fiscal Irresponsibility. And what's MORE irresponsible than blowing your budget, and needing to beg for more money? THEN making it look like $SOMEONE_ELSES_PROBLEM. Like a junkie or alkie. Always Someone Elses Fault. 78k votes different and gop would still run things. They didn't want to stand up to stalin, hitler, Mao, or any other evil. They are simply cowards cheering on the terrorists. What Ried and the dems are doing is simple treason, they hate when America wins and will do everything they can to prevent it. The only democrat worth a damn is Liberman

Sinergy -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 5:47:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DanTheTanMan The will of the people is not to surrender, The will of the people was not to go to war in the first place. The will of the people (voting with their feet) is to NOT support the person putting our troops in harms way by NOT joining the military. You might want to think about what the "will of the people" actually is, as well as the empirical evidence to support that claim. Your will and the will of the people are not necessarily synonymous. quote: the will of the democrats is surrender, it has been their policy for 100 years. That certainly explains both world wars, a negotiated peace settlement in Korea, the SALT treaties, a Republican ending the Vietnam War, and all those banana republics bombed and invaded by various Democratic administrations. I will grant you that the refusal of Reagan to back down did work because the USSR realized (correctly) that he was stupid enough to launch the missiles if they didnt. Think twice, post once. quote: The only reason dems won anything was that conservatives stayed home, Staying home is a form of surrender. Oh, by the way, Leiberman is not a Democrat any more. Sinergy

pahunkboy -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 6:51:07 PM)
---how does teh deficet get balanced? ahh the war. arrogance...ppl fought 1000s of yrs there- we will arrive and bring freedom -- gag me

Sinergy -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 6:54:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy ---how does teh deficet get balanced? ahh the war. arrogance...ppl fought 1000s of yrs there- we will arrive and bring freedom -- gag me On a positive note, this is one governmental screw up that cannot possibly be blamed by sane and reasoned individuals on liberals. Sinergy

Sanity -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 6:56:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy On a positive note, this is one governmental screw up that cannot possibly be blamed by sane and reasoned individuals on liberals. Sinergy Try again Harry Reid is telling the enemy that they've won, and that he's going to make sure that they do

Sinergy -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 7:00:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy On a positive note, this is one governmental screw up that cannot possibly be blamed by sane and reasoned individuals on liberals. Sinergy Try again Harry Reid is telling the enemy that they've won, and that he's going to make sure that they do Are you suggesting Harry Reid is sane and reasoned? Sinergy

Sinergy -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 7:01:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy On a positive note, this is one governmental screw up that cannot possibly be blamed by sane and reasoned individuals on liberals. Sinergy Try again Harry Reid is telling the enemy that they've won, and that he's going to make sure that they do Are you suggesting Harry Reid is sane and reasoned? Sinergy "There is no native criminal class but Congress" Mark Twain

farglebargle -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 7:09:39 PM)
quote: Oh, by the way, Leiberman is not a Democrat any more. A lot of us Jews don't think very much of his professing to be Observant of the Sabbath, and then going in on Saturday to cast votes, either. If you'll lie about your relationship with G-d, what WON'T you lie about?

farglebargle -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 7:14:55 PM)
Ok, I understand that a lot of people feel that since we've killed people with the invasion and occupation of Iraq, that we need to see it through until we "Win". These people, well meaning, to be sure, BELIEVE... They BELIEVE like BELIEVING IN JESUS, that if ONLY we "Stick It Out", the Sunni and Shii'a and Kurds and Turks will all fucking get together and sing Kumbaya. It ain't going to happen. Get over it. Bush fucked up by going in, and now we all bear the deaths caused since then on our souls, as all the death, disease, etc. was done in our names. So now what? Keep doing the wrong thing? Building a wall failed. You can't even secure the Green Zone. And wasn't partition off the table? Of course, don't tell that to independent Kurdistan. Or the Iranian-Kurds ( or are they Kurds stuck in Iran... ) or the Turkish-Kurds ( ok, now the turks are freaking out.... ) Well, Congress is NOT going to let Bush just walk away from his mess. He gets to clean it up before next fall.

Sinergy -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 7:28:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Well, Congress is NOT going to let Bush just walk away from his mess. He gets to clean it up before next fall. Isn't it grand? He can... a) veto their bill. In which case everybody knows he is trying to stall, delay, and avoid the issue. Wont be overturned, but will spell disaster for the Republicans for years to come. b) ignore their bill. In which case he violates the law and the Republicans get tarred with the same brush. c) go along with their bill. In which case he has some months to fix the mess and if he fails to do so, his party cannot turn around and blame the incoming administration; they have to eat crow that they screwed up and were unable to clean up the mess. No matter what he does, we get to watch more Republicans get sacked next election. Sinergy p.s. Before anybody gets all anti-Democrat, the Democrats did NOT screw up Katrina. Did NOT allow 9/11 (Clinton stopped the first attempt). Did not invade Iraq. Did not squander an enormous amount of the Federal treasury. Did not borrow exorbitant amounts of money from China, etc. It will be nice, I can go back to voting for people I believe in, rather than against the megalomaniac cretin the Republicans want to elect King.

farglebargle -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 7:38:42 PM)
a) ii) Congress could simply vote to reauthorize the same exact bill, and deliver it right back to Bush's desk a 2nd, 3rd, 4th veto. If they do it fast enough, WHO is holding up funding? WHO is holding the troops hostage in Iraq? Not the people who want them home.

DanTheTanMan -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 9:52:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy The will of the people was not to go to war in the first place. The will of the people (voting with their feet) is to NOT support the person putting our troops in harms way by NOT joining the military. You might want to think about what the "will of the people" actually is, as well as the empirical evidence to support that claim. Your will and the will of the people are not necessarily synonymous. quote: the will of the democrats is surrender, it has been their policy for 100 years. That certainly explains both world wars, a negotiated peace settlement in Korea, the SALT treaties, a Republican ending the Vietnam War, and all those banana republics bombed and invaded by various Democratic administrations. I will grant you that the refusal of Reagan to back down did work because the USSR realized (correctly) that he was stupid enough to launch the missiles if they didnt. Think twice, post once. quote: The only reason dems won anything was that conservatives stayed home, Staying home is a form of surrender. Oh, by the way, Leiberman is not a Democrat any more. Sinergy Try a few things like, facts, and history. 78% of the American people supported going to war. Military recruiting is at its highest level in years. Real Americans ignore the bullshit liberals spew. Korea was a failure for not finishing off China and letting half a nation be enslaved, notice the 7 million starved to death there in the last 5 years? SALT treaties almost lost the cold war, Nixon beat the N Vietnamese and the democrats betrayed the treaty and didn't fund them when the north invaded, 6 million dead. In the 30's the liberals were huge supporters of the Nazi's and communists, note rockefeller's sponoring a euthenasia clinic kill off the old, retarded, and weak all through the 30's. The founder of Planned Parenthood was big into eugenics describing abortion as a way to "remove the weeds" of lesser races. Only when socialist attacked communist did they want to do anything about hitler. Liberals in general are cowards afraid to confront evil on any level.

DanTheTanMan -> RE: House/Senate Funding Bill really screws Bush. (4/23/2007 10:00:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy p.s. Before anybody gets all anti-Democrat, the Democrats did NOT screw up Katrina. Did NOT allow 9/11 (Clinton stopped the first attempt). Did not invade Iraq. Did not squander an enormous amount of the Federal treasury. Did not borrow exorbitant amounts of money from China, etc. LOL, Clinton was offered osama on a silver platter 3 times by sudan, clinton wouldn't leave watching a golf tourny to give the ok to bomb Osama with planes overhead. The debt as a percentage of GDP is 2% LESS than when clinton was the blowjob/rapist king. Clinton allowed Chinese spies to plunder nuclear secrets and authorised the sale of guidance technology for their ICBM's. Clinton and all the rest of the demoRats had been threatening ending the cease-fire with Iraq since 1998. Face it, democrats are treasonous cheese eatin surrender monkeys and should move to france with the rest of the pussies.

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