RE: REAL Race Play (Full Version)

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DiurnalVampire -> RE: REAL Race Play (4/13/2007 9:11:43 PM)

I dont realy see that as necessarily race play.  Its more power play. Its the same as trying to Dom a Dom, for the thrill of being the one who comes out on top. True race play doesnt have much of a chance you will lose. Its just giving a different reason for their submission.  Not becaue you are a Dominant, but becasue you are a specific gender or religion or race.
I dont like the idea of race play becasue I dont want anything but my power and their relinquishing of control to be on the table. But thats just me

DV




MissSCD -> RE: REAL Race Play (4/13/2007 9:15:03 PM)

JB:

To each his own, but I grew up in the deep south where I heard racial slurs daily.   It made me physically sick to hear them.
I do not wish to be in the same planet with this type person.

Regards, MissSCD




barnone -> RE: REAL Race Play (4/13/2007 9:55:50 PM)

quote:

Im putting this out there as a question to any others who may have needs for reality in their play. Since I was a teen, I have always been attracted to racists, misogynists, nasty obnoxious men who have a need to be brought to their knees by me and hate/love me for it. I soooo dig the power behind a mans lust/need/disgust for me, and I love extracting submission when there is a danger that I may infact loose the battle. Ive tried the nice sweet service subby boys but they dont do it for me.....any other thoughts, anyone share my kinks, anyone with advice? would love to hear


Are you saying you enjoy dominating and/or beating men who, by their hatred of your race, repulse you? (I assume they repulse you because, as your nickname states, you are Jewish)  That doesn't sound like a BDSM relationship to me, more like an inability to control your anger at their irrationality.






minxDrkHorse -> RE: REAL Race Play (4/13/2007 10:55:24 PM)

As an African American slave, i do enjoy race play and have enjoyed these types of scenes. i understand what Jewish Bitch is saying about the whole hate/love aspect of it but that was never my motivation behind it. To me it was the most ultimate and extreme form of degradation and humiliation but it was not real, it was just a role to be assumed by me. However, the times that i have played this way only once can i say that the DOM in question was an actual racist or bigoted because of comments made after the scene was over. i did not think less of this DOM, it was just His issue not mines. i still was able to hold my head up but could He?

Essentially, there is NO such thing as it being REAL RACE PLAY unless the individual in question is TRULY a RACIST or BIGOT, i.e a current Klan member, skinhead, etc.

minxDrkHorse




mons -> RE: REAL Race Play (4/14/2007 1:55:31 AM)

greeting

i am lucky the men i have had were not the one or the type who abuse me so i do understand wow your strong and go for it i think there is nothing wrong with you way of comtrol you men

good for you
mons




mons -> RE: REAL Race Play (4/14/2007 2:02:00 AM)

greetings
one thing i would not touch a black man with my little finger i am so abuse by them when i was younger now i just do not find them sexually excite or handsome and i do love myself it was there abuse which has made me this way i love my family the black men in them but not the outside world and i may never will. my sister husbamd came i respected him he was the only black man i did outside of the blood fiamily he turn out just like the rest he terrorize me to the point i ran to my firend home to stay unitl my sister came him he would make sure i had not food i do not drink and wow he was a great motherfucker he made me so scare i could not sleep fpr weeks after he left and i tel all of you this if something happen to me he did it he hates me so he is coming back to get his car and ............ i know this is a bdsm fourm but he call himsellf a dominant male lol i read and listen to many of the master and doms here he is not like anyone of you
mons




undergroundsea -> RE: REAL Race Play (4/14/2007 2:28:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JewishBitch
I find the act of submission to be intrinsically humiliation....I also find that to be a huge turn on 


I agree that submission itself has potential for humiliation. While it may not feel humiliating, it is what I consider D/s humiliation (versus SM humiliation). I think an act that carries D/s humiliation (no true feelings of humiliation but a willing expression of roles) can easily become SM humiliation (emotional perturbance) if you imagine the same act before a stranger or a rival.

I see multiple reasons why race play might appeal to people.

When I was younger, I responded to stories that had female dominance and amongst those stories were historical accounts, or fictional accounts based on history, that placed a woman in a position of power because of her race (a British woman with an Indian servant, a plantation mistress with a slave). At a fantasy level, I wanted to be in that subordinate position before these women. Back then, my only connection with BDSM was fantasies. The more real the fantasies, the more powerful they were. Towards realism, two questions were relevant: (1) why would someone want to treat me in a manner that otherwise goes against social norms, and (2) how could I allow someone to treat me in this manner. To me, a fantasy about race play provides an explanation for each.

So I think one draw is that race play feeds this idea for realism of sorts both for role play and for real race play.

For real race play, I think it is a form of play between two rival groups. Here is a quote from a discussion elsewhere:

quote:

undergroundsea:
I will communicate my point through an analogy. I went to school at Texas. And I have a fantasy of sorts about watching a Texas football game with a group of gals from Texas A&M or OU (each a big rival) where there is not friendship but a sense of rivalry. And losing![image]http://i.bondage.com/i3/icon_smile_shock.gif[/image] (did I really say that? All my college friends are shamed!)

I feel there is a sense of humiliation that stems from a person of one group having to submit to a person of another group on the basis of the respective groups. And I think this humiliation is heightened if the two groups have a sense of rivalry or history of struggle.


To continue with my analogy of college sports, I think a loss to a rival is more humiliating than a loss to an equally strong team who is not a rival, and a victory over a rival is similarly more satisfying. Thus, I think another reason race play can carry appeal is that a power exchange is amplified when there is a rivalry of sorts. I think this point is what the OP describes.

In addition to the humiliation of submitting under the context of rival groups, I think the idea of rival groups, or history of racial rivalry, allow fantasy for unbridled sadism driven by a sense of disdain. It is for this reason I sometimes have a mixed reaction with someone from whom I sense friction or disregard in general--there is a part of me that responds like most people would, and a part of me that responds as a masochist. My pride causes the general response to prevail.

Thus, I think race play is an intense form of a broader type of play--play between rival groups (rival colleges, rival professions, rival military units)--which can bring excitement due to its humiliation value, and its potential to allow a greater flow of sadism. Of course, a power exchange and sadism can be had without a sense of rivalry, which is the norm rather than the exception. However, a sense of rivalry can add a rawness or yet one more dimension to the overall dynamic based on powerful fantasies.

Another reason why people may enjoy race play is to play with cultural trauma. I learned about this aspect of race play from attending seminars Midori did on each race play and humiliation. This approach does not require a sense of rivalry nor role play, but involves playing with racial matters that are sensitive and arouse emotion, and are based on cultural trauma.

Cheers,

Sea




Celeste43 -> RE: REAL Race Play (4/14/2007 2:37:56 PM)

Being Jewish, and a generation closer to the Holocaust than you, I find the idea of race or Nazi role play horrifying.

I can't help but wonder if your grandparents were survivors who then, as alas so many did, treated their own children with the vile epithets they themselves had suffered in the camps.




undergroundsea -> RE: REAL Race Play (4/14/2007 2:39:06 PM)

Here are a couple of pastes from posts I made in relevant discussions:

Midori raised an interesting point at her seminar. Why is that we can do a role play about a rape scene but a role play scenario based on a plantation or one based on a Nazi-Jewish theme would be controversial? The thought was that there are some things for which we have not fully healed as a society. I imagine a role play scene between a North solider dominating or humiliating a South solider wouldn't be controversial today as it might have been immediately after the Civil War.

To me, race play is a type of play where the mechanism or context for the power exchange is based on race. It does not have to be as it has been in history. For instace, a Black dominant and White submissive could engage in race play if that is the context of their play (a role reversal or atonement theme). An Asian and Hispanic could enact a plantation scene and I would consider that a form of race play (a race based role play). The key word is play.

To me a situation that is based on race and represents a power exchange and associated treatment is key, and not aspects that dig into actual history or cultural trauma. For instance, if I were to role play a scenario of being a slave on a plantation, I would be more interested in that I was being forced into servitude and subjugation through punishment. Relevant epithets and actual references to history (such as cotton fields) and symbolic value of these references would have little erotic value for me whereas they do have erotic value for some black subs who have commented on the matter. Perhaps I say so because I am of a different race. I can however see the appeal if I try to imagine situations that are analogous to me and represent cultural trauma or similar ideas for me.

Cheers,

Sea




Socraticdom -> RE: REAL Race Play (4/14/2007 2:44:36 PM)

Like a lot of others, I think I would have a hard time participating in play like this.




undergroundsea -> RE: REAL Race Play (4/14/2007 2:46:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barnone
Are you saying you enjoy dominating and/or beating men who, by their hatred of your race, repulse you? (I assume they repulse you because, as your nickname states, you are Jewish)  That doesn't sound like a BDSM relationship to me, more like an inability to control your anger at their irrationality.


While race play sounds offensive because of its potential to be seen as racism, I do not see it as intrinsically malign. More often, I have heard it to occur consensually within a loving relationship.

I think it is an edge play that can be done within consensuality and not so much for anger or hatred, but for its potential to add a hot rawness to SM. I think what the OP describes is the best way to experience that rawness--it is better to experience that rawness with someone who feels similarly than to experience that rawness outside consensual BDSM.

Cheers,

Sea




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