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RE: Obesity Gene Discovered - not another fat thread! - 4/13/2007 6:38:58 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

Just reported on ITV news here - a study has identified genetic reasons for why some people are predisposed to obesity, and thence the health problems associated with that condition.


Who financed the study?


it wasnt reported sorry.

Its the implications for insurance cover that interest me though, more than this study in particular.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to subfever)
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RE: Obesity Gene Discovered - not another fat thread! - 4/13/2007 6:40:58 AM   
MistressNoName


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Just reported on ITV news here - a study has identified genetic reasons for why some people are predisposed to obesity, and thence the health problems associated with that condition.

This was heralded in the report as good news.

BUT - what then are the implications for insurance purposes? Health/medical care insurance, critical illness insurance, life insurance (a requirement for mortgages here in the UK).

Can we now expect insurers to request testing for this genetic marker, and to then either reject offering cover or to hike premia for those found to be positive?

And what about other genetic markers for all kinds of conditions? Can we look forward to many of us becoming a genetic underclass, forbidden opportunities in life because of what we inherited? (no medical cover, no mortgage, maybe no job even).

E


I think if this study is verified and truly legitimate that we can expect some positive to happen in it's wake...like educational programs to increase understanding of biological functions and decrease anti-fat bigotry, also increased lobbying to get health insurance companies to offer weight management programs as part of their benefits, and hopefully, increased lobbying for the lowering of prices for "healthier" foods - Not everyone can afford to "eat right" in this country.

Just a few thoughts on my wish list.

MNN

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: Obesity Gene Discovered - not another fat thread! - 4/13/2007 4:57:57 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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Maybe with the discovery of this gene..possibly there will follow a way to rverse its effects..To the OP..I guess I prefer to look at the glass as half full..Tempting

(in reply to MistressNoName)
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RE: Obesity Gene Discovered - not another fat thread! - 4/13/2007 5:30:11 PM   
Aswad


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Wow. Finally a thread that ticks me off a bit. That's a first this year, for any forum.

The people who have an obesity problem have more than enough crap to deal with in their lives without posts like those on this thread; many of them already feel like second-rate citizens in the real world, why make them feel like second-rate netizens as well?

If it were some kind of kink we were discussing, or some other problem, people would have been on the verge of being blocked from posting by now if their replies had been equivalent in nature, tone and lack of respect for the people being discussed. It's right up there with statements like "black people are dumb" and "gays are disgusting, unnatural freaks".

Besides, while it can frequently be related to overeating (particularly in the US, it seems), it can also definitely be due to other causes as well. Hereditary obesity, for instance, can mean that your exercise level and caloric intake have to be such that it is inherently unhealthy for you to maintain your "ideal" weight, as a worst case. In the best case, it requires a bunch more work to maintain low body fat. Similarly, various necessary medications can cause obesity in no time, like gaining 25 kg (50 lbs) in a few months without changing your diet.

Back when I went from about 55kg (121 lbs) at 183cm (6') height to about 95kg (209 lbs) in a couple of years (no change of diet, was related to medicines), with most of it stuck around the belly, I got a taste of what it's like to be on the butt end of posts like those in this thread. I've never been one to care much what others think, so I didn't particularly care, although I took note. My slave, however, does care, and has been on ketogenic diets et al with little to no success, despite me monitoring it; only drug therapies with intolerable side effects have had any significant effect. About 75 lbs of this is directly due to medicines in her case, the rest is definitely hereditary (I've monitored intake, etc.).

Personally, I'm well on my way back to my old body fat content, but the memory of the health issues and the social feedback are fresh enough to have this thread leave a bad taste in my mouth ... the kind that calls for Drano... 

edited: smiley malfunction


< Message edited by Aswad -- 4/13/2007 5:31:23 PM >


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
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RE: Obesity Gene Discovered - not another fat thread! - 4/14/2007 8:26:15 AM   
MistressNoName


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Aswad,

I'll admit to not reading all of the posts on this thread (b/c I just don't have the time just now), but I gotta say from what I've perused through, this thread so far is tamer than most I've seen...There have been fat threads on these boards that I would classify as downright mean-spirited. But at least this one poses an interesting question for consideration and affords an opportunity to speak positively, depending on one's POV.

MNN

< Message edited by MistressNoName -- 4/14/2007 8:29:14 AM >

(in reply to Aswad)
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RE: Obesity Gene Discovered - not another fat thread! - 4/14/2007 2:20:07 PM   
seeksfemslave


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I agree MissNN.
I  think Aswed responded to what he expected to be in the thread  rather than what is actually there.

(in reply to MistressNoName)
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RE: Obesity Gene Discovered - not another fat thread! - 4/14/2007 2:35:35 PM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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Aswad - this is not a fat thread (read the title), the general nature of which tend to be offensive and daft in the same way that similar threads about any other characteristic tend to be. I'm not in the habit of being offensive and though some may disagree, not in the habit of being daft either.

Rather this thread is about the insurance implications for all of us, of all this identification of genetic markers for various conditions and predispositions, using the example of this particular study as a jump off point.

The way things are going, it will soon be possible it seems to identify early on, before conception perhaps, what conditions and predispositions any of us are likely to have, based on our genetics. The implications of this regarding insurance cover of all types are enormous. I believe this is something well worth bringing to attention and discussing as the last thing any of us want I feel is a Brave New World scenario.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Obesity Gene Discovered - not another fat thread! - 4/14/2007 11:17:26 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I  think Aswed responded to what he expected to be in the thread  rather than what is actually there.


A little bit of truth to that statement, or someone yanked a few posts, since rereading the post yields the same sentiment applied to fewer posts than originally thought. There were some positive elements (e.g. LadyEllen's posts), and the implications for insurance are probably very interesting (we have public medical care in Norway, so I can't quite relate to that bit on a personal level, although I quite understand how insurance works).

But there were several rather definitely "mean-spirited" (to borrow her words) attitudes and statements... e.g. "... possessing this horrid gene are not just passing this gene forward ..." (eugenics), "... nice if everyone who has the 'Fat' gene would be forced to wear a large, red 'F' on their forehead ... prevent 'normal' people from mating with them ..." (eugenics, discrimination, reminiscent of star-of-david marking), "... quite easy to see who is fat due to excess ..." (admittedly qualified as 'IMO', but unjustified, e.g. ref my example).

Anyway. I'd hate to see what the "not-so-tame" threads are like. One would imagine all members of the BDSM community would be less hasty to condemn, given how they themselves are rather universally condemned by their "vanilla" societies and cultures. Naïve of me, I guess.


(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Obesity Gene Discovered - not another fat thread! - 4/14/2007 11:37:48 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The way things are going, it will soon be possible it seems to identify early on, before conception perhaps, what conditions and predispositions any of us are likely to have, based on our genetics. The implications of this regarding insurance cover of all types are enormous. I believe this is something well worth bringing to attention and discussing as the last thing any of us want I feel is a Brave New World scenario.


Quite. Already, most things can be identified early. Where I live (Norway), you can't mandate such tests, and you can't offer insurance benefits to those who submit their test results to achieve equivalent effect, so it's really very beneficial to those that can deal with potentially bad news ("hey, you're unlikely to make it to 50", as a friend of mine got to hear at 25).

Insurance is fairly simple. There is only one thing that allows money to be earned from insurance: accurate discrimination. Statistics is the most, and currently only, effective way to do this, preferrably with as accurate and specific statistics as possible. Genetics often give very accurate and specific statistics. In order to safeguard against a general loss, or miscalculation, you insure your insurance company against that via Lloyds, IIRC. The battle to avoid having them maximize profits is rather futile: it's their job, as mandated by law (maximize shareholder profits). They are a parasite that can only exist when there is no altruistic mechanism that covers the mass need for a safety net, and can never generate value, only introduce a dependency that can be leeched for money for those that can afford to get into the market. Kind of like illegal drugs.

Brave New World... I remember reading that; most boring book I ever read, although he did cover the most basic points, yes. Eugenics can be a scary direction, and I don't think there's a way to avoid it, although it might hopefully turn out better than BNW. It will happen, though, baring a global theocracy or somesuch, because upping the ante for a competitive advantage will always be the rational choice in modern society.

Being a transhumanist, I'm rather curious how this stuff will turn out, though.

There are other things that are more near-term future than BNW that will have similar impact. For instance, I'd predict that it will be about 30-50 more years until the combined technology of speech recognition (understanding a voice), language recognition ("getting" the meaning of language) and optical object recognition (sight; allowing for constructs of language to be attached to concepts and objects) will obviate the need for most current professions that are not restricted to the intellectual elite. Cognition will probably remain an important parameter for at least 40 more years after that, but "merely" above-average intelligence will be rendered superfluous by the use of genetic algorithm optimization and the bulk of the "elite" being superfluous themselves due to a smaller market. Average and below will become unneccessary very quickly, though, as there will be above-average out-of-job people to fill the positions that use the employee as anything more than a robot with proper sight and speech (which, as I said, will be available in 30-50 years IMO, and probably at a reasonable cost).

I'd worry about that instead, but that's just me. Food for thought, anyway.


(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 29
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