RE: Illinois Nazis... I hate Illinois Nazis (Full Version)

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Sinergy -> RE: Illinois Nazis... I hate Illinois Nazis (4/12/2007 8:11:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


Is there anything WORSE than a Nazi with a Badge?



yeh nazi's in control of the political system!


Jello Biafra had this to say about Nazis.

Nazi Punks Fuck Off!

Punk ain't no religious cult
Punk means thinking for yourself
You ain't hardcore cos you spike your hair
When a jock still lives inside your head
CHORUS:
Nazi punks
Nazi punks
Nazi punks - Fuck Off!
Nazi punks
Nazi punks
Nazi punks - Fuck Off!

If you've come to fight, get outa here
You ain't no better than the bouncers
We ain't trying to be police
When you ape the cops it ain't anarchy

CHORUS

Ten guys jump one, what a man
You fight each other, the police state wins
Stab your backs when you trash our halls
Trash a bank if you've got real balls

You still think swastikas look cool
The real nazis run your schools
They're coaches, businessmen and cops
In a real fourth reich you'll be the first to go

CHORUS

You'll be the first to go
You'll be the first to go
You'll be the first to go
Unless you think...

-----------

Not sure what that has to do with the whole thread, but before people start talking chanting in tongues about honorable police officers, I live in Los Angeles; home of Rodney King, CRASH, The OJ Failure, etc.

Sinergy



popeye1250 -> RE: Illinois Nazis... I hate Illinois Nazis (4/12/2007 9:41:12 PM)

That's odd, you see a lot of police brutality in Boston too.
Know what Chicago and Boston have in common?
It is almost impossible to get a firearms cary permit in those places.



farglebargle -> RE: Illinois Nazis... I hate Illinois Nazis (4/13/2007 6:16:23 AM)

Same with NYC, eh?



Absintheur -> RE: Illinois Nazis... I hate Illinois Nazis (4/13/2007 8:15:24 AM)

I understand somewhat the comment "Illinois Nazis". Some years ago I was detained by them merely because I drove a profile vehicle. I was detained for 3 hours because I refused to let them search my car, They had no grounds for detaining me and as I found out stopped me because I drove a jeep and had Indiana plates. They know a large number of folks from Indiana have carry permits and people who drive SUVs are likely to have them. They were hoping to catch me on a firearms violation but after three hours of refusing to give them permission to search my car I finally told them to arrest me so I could contact my lawyer and start a lawsuit against them and the state. I was finally let go but as I continued my drive across their state I was tailed almost constantly by a squad car till I reached the Missouri state line.

Do police abuse their poers? of course some of them do but in general I would have to say the vast majority do not and are simply trying to do their jobs.



pahunkboy -> RE: Illinois Nazis... I hate Illinois Nazis (4/13/2007 9:48:22 AM)

Joliet - while it considers itself its own city- is near Chicago.

this incident is minor compared to what really happens in the big city.

run a scanner found online for any big city, on a fri sat night chilling.

in this small town area many folks run a scanner. when something happens word spreads fast.

i tuned in to i think it was atlata- the cops say the DOB SS name adress right over the scanner.

some police departments have used split channels for scanning- others bypass them.  guess why? many crooks carry scanners.


there is alot of curruption in the big cities too.  one can say it got worse- but it was that way years ago too.

havent said that- we have to have police. otherwise only the brutalist would survive. the very point that a guy could go to jail for say rape, is a deterent for many.

we have to all get along.

funny enuff -scuffles i had in my life were not the big bad sterotype. they were similiar ethnic/sim sexual orientation.

the day i went thru a 40 mintute car jacking in chicago- no pd wanted to take the report- it happened over several jurisdictions. that was the worse day of my life.



LadyEllen -> RE: Illinois Nazis... I hate Illinois Nazis (4/13/2007 9:58:50 AM)

You know, reading all this makes me wonder about the recruitment, training and discipline in US police forces.

I'm not going to pretend that we dont have absolutely unsuitable wankers on a power trip in the UK police forces, but I know from taking part in the recruitment, training and discipline side of things as an adviser with my local force, that on balance officers here would be and feel ill advised to stray from approved procedure, and that unsuitable recruits are often thrown out, because the force hierarchy understands in no uncertain terms what is and what is not acceptable behaviour and enforces that down the chain of command - or answers to the government and/or to the likes of me as a fully paid up member of the LGBT awkward squad.

Does anyone here know about the recruitment, training and discipline in the US forces, and is there any top down move towards a change of culture over there, as there is here?

E




Alumbrado -> RE: Illinois Nazis... I hate Illinois Nazis (4/13/2007 1:16:09 PM)

The police training in the US is different to the extent that the government, laws, and culture are different.
I am not aware of agencies of any size here that rely on local citizen advisors to conduct the actual LEO training , unless those trainers were themselves either practitioners, or experts in a specific discipline such as law, medicine, or defensive tactics.

And there is no real and cohesive 'top down' move toward change, because there is no 'top'...we have no primary nationalized police force to speak of, or training directorate - unlike say the German LE agencies.

Each state, county, and municipality has its own law enforcement structure, and the politics of getting to be in charge of that structure dominate police policy, which in turn influences training.

Under the precepts of  the exclusionary rule, qualified and absolute immunity, and vicarious liability,  there is  a heavy reliance on US Supreme Court rulings in training police what to do or not to do. 
Miranda is one such made notorious by TV and Hollywood, but graduates from an American police academy should be equally cognizant of Garner (use of deadly force),  Terry (pat downs), Mapp (search and seizure),  and a host of others.

At the end of the day however, there are going to be those who are dishonest and unstable with badges that no amount of words on paper will dissuade...
Just like in every other profession, and every other place.



Sinergy -> RE: Illinois Nazis... I hate Illinois Nazis (4/13/2007 1:21:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

You know, reading all this makes me wonder about the recruitment, training and discipline in US police forces.



When I was in 8th grade, I took the Kooter (sp?) Preference Test.  I put down the following.

1)  Scientist

2)  Doctor

3)  Police / Fire.

I was told that 1 and 2 would be great for me, but that I was too smart to be a policeman or fireman.

Go figure.

I was talking to a AF Captain in NORAD one time, and telling her about the baleful stares the security guards gave me when I innocently asked why the flag was at (Nixon had died 4 weeks prior) half mast.  She politely informed me that to be in military law enforcement and security, you basically have to fail at or be unqualified to do any other job.

Not sure I agree with either of them, as I know any number of bright and intelligent and ethical law enforcement officers, but there ya go.

Sinergy



AquaticSub -> RE: Illinois Nazis... I hate Illinois Nazis (4/13/2007 1:29:33 PM)

~Fast Reply~

People, in general, are good. However, there is an abuse of everything.

Some police abuse their power.
Some women abuse the rape laws to send innocent men to jail.
Some people abuse the child molestion laws to send 18 year olds to jail for having sex with a 17 year old.

If something exists, someone is probably abusing it. It's a tragady, to be sure. But let's not judge every group by the bad behavior of a few.



farglebargle -> RE: Illinois Nazis... I hate Illinois Nazis (4/13/2007 3:02:40 PM)

"But let's not judge every group by the bad behavior of a few."

I won't say that Muslim Extremists make all Muslims untrustworthy, but they do not enjoy a special status in society, nor are they EXPECTED to maintain the highest ethical standards at all time while they wear our ( badge | flag ).

IOW, since they can't police themselves, how can they police the "Bad Guys"?




popeye1250 -> RE: Illinois Nazis... I hate Illinois Nazis (4/13/2007 10:08:26 PM)

Lady Ellen, "LGBT awkward squad?"

I really don't know too much about local and state police training and standards.
The Feds are a lot more thorough and we had much more training.
We were *always* training! And not just in L/E but in Firefighting, Emergency Medical Care, Treaties and laws, survival tactics and many more things.
When I got out of the USCG I was thinking about being a local cop and a friend asked me; "Tom, do you really want to be going to trailer parks for domestic disturbances?"
"No." I said.
That was the end of that foolish idea.
It's kind of tough to be looking forward to writing tickets and answering domestic calls after you've participated in major drug busts involving tons of  "hippie lettuce" and hundreds of pounds of "Colombian marching powder."



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