The hand of friendship. (Full Version)

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missturbation -> The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 2:56:14 PM)

I think most people would agree friendship works both ways, is a two way street. You give, you take, support each other, share good and bad times. Pretty much like any relationship really.
 
So what happens when things go wrong, when friendship becomes a one way street?
 
Recently my friend of ten plus years who i house shared with decided to move out without notice leaving me in all sorts of financial strife. I'd got a contract phone for her which she has since stopped paying. She'd ordered things from the catalogue, run up a huge phone bill and left me with another £150 rent a month to find. Pretty bad i guess! There appears to be no reason behind it, i have done nothing to her but support her and be there for her over the years. Its always been a pretty one sided thing, support from her was very rare. To get to the point after years and years of friendship i will never speak to her again, never forgive the the things she has done.
 
The poly relationship i am in at present has the best base, the base of friendship. Or so i thought! Recent events which i will not go into in detail  have left me feeling  lied to, unsupported, uncared for etc etc. We had all said that whether the poly worked out or not we would always be friends but now i just have no interest in being friends with them. I believe in honesty in friendships and support etc and i just don't feel the roots of those are there anymore. I will probably say what i have to to them and walk away.
 
So there you have two friendships, one long standing and one which was of major importance to me in so many ways and i am ready to or have walked away from them both. So imagine my own surprise when i am faced with the offering of the hand of friendship from someone who i also felt betrayed me and berated me in many ways. Again details aren't needed but suffice it to say that i yes had made mistakes in the friendship but do not feel i deserved  the treatment i recieved from the person in question or their friends. So why am i considering taking this hand of friendship when i have walked away or am considering walking away from the other two? I am pretty forgiving but this person has not offered an apology or even admitted that they may be wrong in the extent they hold me responsible in the breakdown of the friendship in the first place.

I really am baffled at my reaction to this. 



LadyEllen -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 3:04:01 PM)

I think there is such a thing as the rebound when it comes to friendships as much as it does to romances. Feeling lost and vulnerable makes any friendly approach seem good. Thats not to say this one isnt, but just a comment - we all have to make our own minds up on these things unfortunately.

But in the the end, yes friendships and romances must be two way streets, or they never last.

Just as an aside, you dont know someone called Cath do you? I know a lady by that name up your way who has told me some similar stories!

E



missturbation -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 3:17:20 PM)

I don't think so, well i did know a cath but she was a friend of a friend.



goodlittlegirl28 -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 3:34:28 PM)

miss,

reminds me of a situation i had to deal with not long ago. it was a sad day when i cut the string, but my good time is better spent on someone who spends good time on me. look at the facts, feel it out with your heart, and decide what you can live with.



Termyn8or -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 3:43:09 PM)

missturbation, I have one word for you, SELF.

You must think about you first, anytime you do not do that there will be trouble, I don't care if you are the most submissive sub on the planet (not read your profile) but no matter what you are you look out for number one. I am number one to me, you are number one to you. And if anyone has a problem with that, YOU tell them to take a hike. Don't let the door hit you where the dog shouda bit you.

My friends would kill for me, maybe even die, but as friends I will not put them in harm's way, I prefer to take care of my own dirty work.

Think of yourself as #1 and you will be. If anyone gets out of line, punch them really hard in the knee, and if they betray you either get revenge, or as I have found, disassociate. That kills them. Liars and cheaters feed off of people and the worst thing you can do to them is cut them off.

Do it when you feel the need. Be in control. Like I said it matters not how submissive you are, you still must look out for number one. Of course Dominants have to look out for number two as well.

T



ana85 -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 4:19:15 PM)

A friend of mine that I  have known for over 10 years has always been there for me when I needed her. There are hard times and rough patches like with any other relationship, but we've stayed friends no matter what. The reason it works is because, even though we drive eachother nuts at times, we are there for eachother and have never done anything so harsh that it couldn't be forgiven. Your friend doesn't seem like that type. Your friend screwed you over in several areas at the same time. The friendship that you are considering renewing seems like it could just be alot of misreading, but since I don't know the details, I couldn't begin to guess. If I were you, I would try and make sure you aren't putting yourself into another bad friendship, and if everything can be worked out, then give it a shot and see what happens



missturbation -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 4:36:16 PM)

Feeling lost and vulnerable makes any friendly approach seem good.
I hadn't even considered that - food for thought definately.
 
You must think about you first, anytime you do not do that there will be trouble, I don't care if you are the most submissive sub on the planet (not read your profile) but no matter what you are you look out for number one.
I've always looked after myself, just not in the best way each time there is a problem lol.



mnottertail -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 5:06:22 PM)

lol,
somedays  your house burns up, and somedays it burns down. (your house)



missturbation -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 5:14:52 PM)

Sure!!
The cookie can crumble many ways
The bad guy sometimes comes up smelling of roses
Shit happens
But you know what the only one i hold faith in is .........the truth will always out!!
 



juliaoceania -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 6:45:30 PM)

You know I think that we attract certain situations to ourselves, many times to overcome them. I would ask yourself what you needed to learn from this situation, even if the only thing you learned is that you want a different type of people around yourself. If I wanted to change the type of people that seemed to come into my life I would look within to find out why the same people with different names kept showing their faces. I would try making a list of the qualities you seek in the people that surround you and contemplate that list, and know that there are people out there that are like that. Then I would do my very best to be the type of friend that attracts those people. It worked to find the people that are now in my life.



Tuomas -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 7:35:52 PM)

The fact of the matter is, you don't need friendships, do you? Why not just hold out for someone who has not betrayed you? I know that falling out with a couple of friends is not nice, and you could feel lonely. But that's not a reason to grasp at straws. If there is a reason that you don't trust someone, then... you shouldn't trust them. And you can't be friends without some trust.

So, yeah; there are several billion people out there: at least five or six of them have to be trustworthy. Go get 'em![:)]



missturbation -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 9:12:15 PM)

My hand of friendship has been well and truly withdrawn for the foreseeable future.
I'm putting it to better use [;)]



Sinergy -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 9:17:07 PM)

This is a general reply.

I got a call yesterday from a friend working down here in Smell-A who asked me out for sushi.  I have been friends with him since Kindergarten.  I had other plans, but we see each other so infrequently that I dropped them and went out and hung out with him.

Over the years of our friendship, I can probably count the fights we have had on one hand with extra fingers.  I have put myself in harms way (physically, monetarily, and emotionally) to help him. He has done the same for me.
A former relationship once used the term "forever friend" to describe it.  I know if I got a 3am phone call from Ensenada asking me to send lawyers, guns, and money, I would not think twice about helping him.

The odd thing is is how different we are personality wise.  We have relatively different goals.  One part that amuses me endlessly is I think he has always been an ultra-liberal whack job.  Go figure. 

I have another friend whose hand I held during her divorce.  She would pontificate endlessly about the loyalty of friends and how important that was.  I divorce my ex-wife because I became sick of her unending verbal abuse and insults, guess who got this friend in the divorce.

So a few years after the divorce, I run into her at the store and invite her to my place for coffee.  We have a nice chat.  Then I mention that I find it profoundly ironic that after all her endless pontifications and lessons she gave me about the importance of loyalty when she divorced her ex, and the fact that I never once failed to be there for her during her divorce, that she would immediately side with my ex-wife when I divorced my ex.  She turned bright red.  Was unable to maintain small talk after that, and while I continued to be nice and polite and friendly, she wallowed in her total embarrassment and eventually left. 

I have not spoken to her since.  Nor have I wanted to.

The conclusion I have come to in my time here is that true friendship cannot be quantified or produced.  To me it is an indefinable connection between two people that either exists, or doesnt, and comes from somewhere.  I suspect this is why people consider friendship and love to be other-worldly, because people have little or no control over when or where they will find it.

I am sorry for the position you find yourself in, missturbation.  Take care of yourself, and work to keep a happy heart, know that you will get through this.  If there is anything that strumpet or I could do, please do not hesitate to ask.

Sinergy and strumpet



ElectraGlide -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 9:21:35 PM)

I have learned how to be independant, and it is not a bad thing. I have lots of friends but I dont lean on them too hard, and I dont tie their shoes for them. Any one can let you down, and it is always the person you least suspect. People with honor are out there some where.



missturbation -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 9:29:34 PM)

If there is anything that strumpet or I could do, please do not hesitate to ask.

Strumpet lol.
Thank you i appreciate it [:D]
Could i possibly borrow Julia for a few weeks, i'm pretty sure i could think of some ways she could cheer me up [;)]



Sinergy -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 9:32:11 PM)

Daddy will have to check her schedule and get back to you ;)

Sinergy



MzMia -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 10:09:34 PM)

I feel the pain in your post, my heart goes out to you.
I went through something similar with a semi/good friend who had stayed in touch with
me for about 18 years, who I had kept at arms length.
We had major falling outs years ago, and I actually did not want to stay in touch with her.
BUT, she always wormed her way into my life.
She always reappeared and would  call and even would talk to my mother at length on the phone, when
I moved to Florida!
Anyway, I helped this woman get a job about a year and a half ago.  It was only a part-time
job, but it was better than nothing! Which is what she had at the time, nothing.
This woman, not only crapped over the job which made me look bad, she did several mean
things to me, and then attempted to quarrel with me on my job!
Long story short, I cut all communication off with her and had to tell her to stop calling me.
Sometimes we outgrow people in our lives, you sound like a good person and a good friend.
It is their loss, in time your sadness and anger will pass and you will be glad that they are gone.
I had several friends and family members ask about her after that, and I had to tell them more
than once, we were no longer friends.  I am glad I was honest about that, I did not go into great
details, but they got the point.
You deserve better relationships and people in your life, and I hope they appear for you.
This is a lot to happen in a short period of time, take care of yourself.
Be good to you.[:)]



SusanofO -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 10:10:41 PM)

missturbation: Over the years I have concluded that if you're a really nice person, eventually you are probably going to get really screwed over, by someone you may have considered a friend.

I have loaned money to "friends" and have never been repaid, when they've sworn on their mother's grave they'd re-pay it, and a few other things I won't go into detail about.

I concluded w/one particular person, however, after about 10 years of what I thought was friendship, that was actually just her constantly bitching about her ex, and me listening, and trying to cheer her up, but her never being around when and if I needed a shoulder to cry on (which is rare, but does happen) - that I felt just plain used.

And I have a pretty long "fuse" as far as tolerating questionable stuff from other people, most of the time. I try to give other people the benefit of any doubt.  

I told her this, one day a few months ago, after I'd bought her a gift certificate to a salon for a manicure, to cheer her up, because her estranged daughter wasn't talking to her, and she was depressed about it, and she phoned that very day, to yell at me, because I was unavilable for dinner with her that evening (which would have included me listening to more endless bitching, about how her ex-husband mistreats her, and her kids misunderstand her intentions, etc., etc, etc.).

I realized was keeping up the friendship in some ways, because I felt sorry for her - because her immediate family either lives very far away, or are dead, and she appeared to have very few close friends. 

One day, I just woke up, I guess, and realized why this may be true for her...
*Not much, if anything, according to her, has ever really been her own fault, if it's bad, and it's in her life. Everything that is sad, or bad, it seems, is always, always someone else's fault. She very, very rarely finds herself culpable in any way, in any circumstance that for some reason, hasn't "gone her way".

You'd think I would have been able to predict this, but - after I said how disappointed I was, that she never seemd to be able to listen to me - there was a  long silence, and then  she said: "Well! I never realized you felt that way!" I said: "Well, now you do."

She hanged up on me, and she hasn't called me back, or apologized, or even said "thank you" for all of the years I really was "there" for her (and I really was).

I haven't talked to her since, and I can't say I miss her being in my life all that much, even though we occasionally had some good times. I have other (more mature) friends I can hang with.        

But, IMO, that doesn't make you stupid, it just means you're nice, and someone apparently not as nice, decided to take advantage. I'd still rather be nice, even if occasionally this kind of stuff has happened to me, too.

Please don't let your experiences change you for the worse. The world needs all of the nice folks (and perhaps fewer whiny perennial losers.)

- Susan  



Sinergy -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 10:44:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I have loaned money to "friends" and have never been repaid, when they've sworn on their mother's grave they'd re-pay it, and a few other things I won't go into detail about.



When I gave a cashiers check for money I previously had in savings to that same friend to start a restaurant, I told him "dude, my friendship with you means a lot more than this money does, so I will never ask for it back."

That was 10 years ago.  His restaurant failed.  We had a great time at the Sushi bar last night.  As well as sipping Whiskey while discussing Kant.

I meant what I said.

Sinergy



SusanofO -> RE: The hand of friendship. (4/8/2007 10:55:19 PM)

I know I shouldn't expect to be re-paid. I've since decided, that if I am going to lend money, it's a good idea from the out-set not to expect it back, since I seem to rarely see it paid back anyway (in my experience).

Actually, most of these folks I loaned money to (and I've only done that about 4 times in my life) were what I'd consider acquaintances, not really long-time friends.

So maybe that was stupidity on my part (I just hate to see someone get kicked out of an apartment with no place to go, because they lost their job and the rent is due, etc). 

But - I still say it's better to be a nice person, than a user, or a cynical loser.

In every single case, these people told me they would re-pay me, and in 2 cases, I asked them to sign the eqivalent of a promissory note, because the amount was larger than I felt I could just see fly away, never to return.    

I didn't have the heart, though.to take them to small claims court (or the time, or revenge-level in operation at the time, although in my life I have had that, on occasion, in the extreme circumstance) - although in one case, I wish I'd considered doing that more seriously than I did at the time.

Yes, I've since decided, that if I am going to lend anyone money, that I should just make it a gift, and thus kiss it good-bye forever. It's just not worth the head-aches (to me) of seeing them try to escape the debt, if they decide not to re-pay you, and feeling that kind of dis-loyalty really, really sting.

- Susan



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