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RE: Hydrogen as Fossil Fuel Clean Replacement - 4/9/2007 8:41:59 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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    Ummm...  Can anybody say "Hindenberg?"  Seems there is a little PR hump to get over too.

     My company is experimenting with propane powered equipment.  Those trucks scare the hell out me.  The tank rupture analogy is flawed because you need a lot more capacity to achieve the same range, increasing the chances that a tank could be damaged in accident.

     My guess is that these vehicles will be banned, or at least highly restricted, within a few years.

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(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Hydrogen as Fossil Fuel Clean Replacement - 4/9/2007 9:32:00 PM   
Tuomas


Posts: 242
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline 		Heretic, I work in rescue, and trust me, the gasoline tanks are a lot more dangerous. There are a lot of propane/methane vehicles around here. Some of the significant safety features include a more durable tank (propane tanks won't explode unlike gasoline tanks), the fuel is a lot less volatile, and the fuel is a gas instead of a liquid (which means if it does explode, it won't burn). So, yeah, when I have to cut someone out of a vehicle, I much prefer seeing an LP tank, then a drip-drip of gasoline.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Hydrogen as Fossil Fuel Clean Replacement - 4/9/2007 9:48:36 PM   
Griswold


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Joined: 2/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Does anyone know what the hold up is?   This guy claims 4 ounces of water to drive 100 miles.  If that is true then why are we not seeing "on demand" hydrogen generators for our cars?  Pretty tough to imagine not being able to boil off 4 ounces of water in an hour an 1/2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfXNtIv5HyA

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-813727532577660991&q=hydrogen+power
This guy says 22 gallons of water to go from La to Ny

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5502240084388841554&q=hydrogen+power
a simple fuel cell

http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/progress05/iv_h_6_pile.pdf




(Because it currently costs something like 9 kabillion dollars {that's with a "K"} per gallon to make this product and there's exactly ONE filling station...in California.  Someday...but not in your lifetime...change your lighbulbs to those curly cue ones...you'll save more money faster).

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Hydrogen as Fossil Fuel Clean Replacement - 4/10/2007 2:47:44 AM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Dont believe the hype on the Hindenberg.  Actually the only people who died jumped out.  When it hit the ground it wa a massive fire, but the people were fine(except for broken bones ect),thats the beauty of hydrogen, it rises, so it burns up. 

(in reply to Griswold)
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RE: Hydrogen as Fossil Fuel Clean Replacement - 4/10/2007 1:53:37 PM   
ferryman777


Posts: 198
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline 		Go Lady Go !!!! You are SOOOOOOOO right, nothing cynical, just dead on target.

Besides, what will they do then with all that oil from Iraq. 3.19 USD per gallon here.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Hydrogen as Fossil Fuel Clean Replacement - 4/20/2007 8:57:02 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Watch Who Killed the Electric Car.  I can't say how accurate it all is, but it was pretty interesting.


My favorite part so far is the Governator demanding a hydrogen fuel cell Hummer.

What a tool.

Sinergy

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Hydrogen as Fossil Fuel Clean Replacement - 4/21/2007 5:39:29 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

  Shallowdeep said
Conservation of energy and the universe's always increasing entropy, extremely fundamental principles of our scientific understanding (the First and Second Laws of thermodynamics).
..

Call me irresponsible
Call me unreliable
Call me a thread deviator too..

but why doesnt the existence of the Universe violate the law of entropy.
Does it not require increasing order to evolve ?

Just thought you could say the same about the Big Bang and Conservation of Energy, but I'm getting carried away now.

Stick to Hydrogen if you like, I dont care.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 4/21/2007 5:42:54 AM >

(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Hydrogen as Fossil Fuel Clean Replacement - 4/21/2007 7:25:03 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
but why doesnt the existence of the Universe violate the law of entropy.
Does it not require increasing order to evolve ?

Just thought you could say the same about the Big Bang and Conservation of Energy, but I'm getting carried away now.

Stick to Hydrogen if you like, I dont care.

The second law of thermodynamics (entropy) is relevant to closed systems only. The Earth is receiving significant energy from someplace else so it isn't a closed system and shows increasing order in some cases.

Take a look at the Solar System as a whole and entropy is steadily increasing and is essentially a closed system.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Hydrogen as Fossil Fuel Clean Replacement - 4/21/2007 8:45:57 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

but why doesnt the existence of the Universe violate the law of entropy.
Does it not require increasing order to evolve ?



No.  It does not.

If one examine theories surrounding complex systems, what one determines is that given a certain system space, persistent patterns tend to emerge and persist over a time interval.

Modify the system space, some of these persistent patterns die out, other patterns form and persist.

This is not synonymous with a "requirement" to have increasing order.  It is a behavior.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 29
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