RE: Phelps and Free Speech

RE: Phelps and Free Speech (Full Version)

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ToGiveDivine -> RE: Phelps and Free Speech (4/6/2007 7:29:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine Could you be anymore stereotypical? You just implied that all people on the religious right are wack job fanatics. All people on the religious right are wackos. Fullstop. That would be like saying all people against the war are traitors or all blacks are gangstas. People who are anti-war are not traitors but usually have the good sense to see that the war is fought by everyone for special interest groups. Very few wars are ever fought for freedom and the good of the people. Just because you don't care for religious people / conservatives / anti-abortion type / etc. doesn't give you the right to attack them. You wouldn't want one of those groups to lump "your" crowd into some negative stereotype just because some moron who believes what you believe did something stupid. I still live in a democracy and have every right to attack wackos. Phelps and his gang are some of the lowest of the low - leave everyone not associated with them out of it. BTW, wasn't name-calling something we did in grade school? I'm not name calling, I'm just calling a dog a dog. Then you won't mind being attacked by people that think any group you are associated with are wackos. I don't particularly agree with most of your blatherings (just so you know, I don't particularly agree with the all blatherings of extremists from the right either) You did prove my point though - I seemed to have hit a nerve when I used the "anti-war are traitors" example. You didn't appear to like that, yet you did the same thing to all the religious right. There are quite a few of the religious right that are anti-war, anti-racism, don't like Bush and Company, etc. Your blanket statements are just a sign of immaturity and a sign of the hate you have of people you don't completely agree with. It's called elitism and it's not appropriate no matter what your beliefs are. I know you'll have some snippy comeback to this and you'll sit there all proud of yourself ... don't hurt your arm as you pat yourself on the back.

meatcleaver -> RE: Phelps and Free Speech (4/6/2007 7:51:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine Then you won't mind being attacked by people that think any group you are associated with are wackos. I think the religious right have a genetic need to attack people like me because people like me see what a load of s*** they have for brains. I don't particularly agree with most of your blatherings (just so you know, I don't particularly agree with the all blatherings of extremists from the right either) You don't have to agree. We live in a democracy. You did prove my point though - I seemed to have hit a nerve when I used the "anti-war are traitors" example. You didn't appear to like that, yet you did the same thing to all the religious right. You haven't hit a nerve with me. I just think warmongers should get what they want to give. A bullet. There are quite a few of the religious right that are anti-war, anti-racism, don't like Bush and Company, etc. Your blanket statements are just a sign of immaturity and a sign of the hate you have of people you don't completely agree with. It's called elitism and it's not appropriate no matter what your beliefs are. I don't hate the religious right, I somewhat pity them but I won't let them impose their cocked up view of the world on me without a fight. I know you'll have some snippy comeback to this and you'll sit there all proud of yourself ... don't hurt your arm as you pat yourself on the back. I never pat my self on the back and why would I pat myself on the back for being sensible and disliking the religious right for their zealotry.

Vendaval -> RE: Phelps and Free Speech (4/6/2007 9:40:35 AM)
Hello Lady Ellen, The right to Free Speech is a tough one. The likes of Phelps and the KKK are horrid examples of how not to behave. They still have the right to voice their opinion and protest, until they start assault and battery or vandalism, in which case they can be charged with a crime. Regards, Vendaval (Edited for clarification)

seeksfemslave -> RE: Phelps and Free Speech (4/6/2007 2:36:38 PM)
Offensive and insensitive they certainly are. I also think they clearly are cheap publicity seekers, but if freedom of speech means anything at all then it means allowing people like that to speak. This issue by the way illuminates the Liberal dilemma, they believe everyone is as reasonable as they believe themselves to be ! After all certain parts of the Bible clearly say that the Deity is a rather demanding character. NO ?

meatcleaver -> RE: Phelps and Free Speech (4/6/2007 3:38:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Offensive and insensitive they certainly are. I also think they clearly are cheap publicity seekers, but if freedom of speech means anything at all then it means allowing people like that to speak. This issue by the way illuminates the Liberal dilemma, they believe everyone is as reasonable as they believe themselves to be ! After all certain parts of the Bible clearly say that the Deity is a rather demanding character. NO ? Thankfully seeks, most people who believe in the Abramic religions, whether christian, Jew or muslim, don't live by the morals of their god or the world would have more problems than it has now. I don't consider myself a liberal. When those religious freaks knock on my door and they have the nerve to at times, I tell them if they don't fuck off within two seconds, they'll be making a one way visit to their maker.

LadyEllen -> RE: Phelps and Free Speech (4/6/2007 3:48:23 PM)
Thats the thing though Seeks, yes on the one hand they have derived their ideas from the Bible, yet they also behave in a way which is contrary to Christianity. Mainly because, like almost all fundies I ever came across, they love the OT and Paul, but dont seem to have the same admiration for the teachings of one Jesus of Nazareth reported in the same collection of texts. I really dont see any "liberal dilemna" to be honest Seeks; there is a simple rule that doesnt require any deliberation, in force in the UK, which says that you can say what you like, but you may not deliberately set out to cause or encourage hatred or violence against any group. Clearly, the Phelps contingent is doing exactly that in respect of homosexuals, naming them as the disease, just as the Muslims in London last year did in respect of we "Ferengi", and just as the BNP regularly do in respect of immigrants. I'd also take this opportunity to explain what I said about the youngest participants on their demos and the high likelihood that they would be taken into social care in the UK. It wouldnt be because of the views expressed that such a removal might be executed, but because of the reckless endangerment of those participants through violence generated as a response to the demo in which they had been inappropriately involved. E

pahunkboy -> RE: Phelps and Free Speech (4/6/2007 3:54:04 PM)
this "free speech" is akin to yelling fire in a crowded theator. it is harrassment, disorderly conduct. loved ones of a deceased- of any sexual orieetation, any veteran status, any anything- should be left alone. this is gross harrassment plain and simple. most folks are veyr offended. even a biker group-showed up so as to drowned out the shouts. how low can civility go? BTW- i am also against anyone protesting a Phelps funeral as well. Here in Pennsylvania- the governor has aleady proposed a law to speciifically outlaw such intrusiveness. IMO-if they tried this locally- they would be charched with something- I am sure there aaare laws on the books.

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