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Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/3/2007 8:11:07 AM   
juliaoceania


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I wonder if this is all a little too late.



quote:

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court cleared the way Monday for a more aggressive attack by government on global warming, which could include the first national rules to limit carbon dioxide emissions from new cars, trucks and power plants.

In a 5-4 decision, the high court rebuked the Bush administration and ruled that so-called greenhouse gases — like carbon dioxide — were air pollutants subject to federal regulation.

President Bush and his aides, allied with automakers, argued that federal officials did not have the power to set mandatory limits on greenhouse gas emissions.

The court's ruling knocked down a legal barrier that kept California and other states from requiring reduced carbon emissions by new vehicles starting in 2009.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger praised the decision and said he was "very encouraged."

Under the Clean Air Act, California won the right to adopt its own regulations limiting emissions by new vehicles, but only if the Environmental Protection Agency issued a waiver saying the state's rules complied with the law. No waiver has been issued.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-scotus3apr03,1,2900028.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true


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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/3/2007 10:17:42 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I wonder if this is all a little too late.



quote:

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court cleared the way Monday for a more aggressive attack by government on global warming, which could include the first national rules to limit carbon dioxide emissions from new cars, trucks and power plants.

In a 5-4 decision, the high court rebuked the Bush administration and ruled that so-called greenhouse gases — like carbon dioxide — were air pollutants subject to federal regulation.

President Bush and his aides, allied with automakers, argued that federal officials did not have the power to set mandatory limits on greenhouse gas emissions.

The court's ruling knocked down a legal barrier that kept California and other states from requiring reduced carbon emissions by new vehicles starting in 2009.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger praised the decision and said he was "very encouraged."

Under the Clean Air Act, California won the right to adopt its own regulations limiting emissions by new vehicles, but only if the Environmental Protection Agency issued a waiver saying the state's rules complied with the law. No waiver has been issued.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-scotus3apr03,1,2900028.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true


juliaoceana:
Which one of those ungrateful bastards had the gaul to vote against king george?
thompson

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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/3/2007 11:41:52 AM   
toservez


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Actually while watching Countdown with Keith Oberman program on the report about this was the fact that the car makers actually want the federal government to step in and mandate something so they will have just one set of standards instead of possible fifty.

I think this is good news but another thing that King George will fail to grasp, one way or another and will do nothing about and making everyone no matter what side they are on, unhappy.



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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/3/2007 3:39:35 PM   
sophia37


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One can only try

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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/3/2007 6:44:08 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

juliaoceana:
Which one of those ungrateful bastards had the gaul to vote against king george?
thompson


Can I ask what the point is? I am trying to get it, my brain is fried from working all day

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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/3/2007 6:50:44 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

Actually while watching Countdown with Keith Oberman program on the report about this was the fact that the car makers actually want the federal government to step in and mandate something so they will have just one set of standards instead of possible fifty.

I think this is good news but another thing that King George will fail to grasp, one way or another and will do nothing about and making everyone no matter what side they are on, unhappy.




toserve, one standard instead of fifty would be common sense wouldn't it?
And yes, unfortunately King George is good at that, isn't he?

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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/3/2007 8:42:31 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

juliaoceana:
Which one of those ungrateful bastards had the gaul to vote against king george?
thompson


Can I ask what the point is? I am trying to get it, my brain is fried from working all day

juliaoceana;
King george has managed to put several people on the court in the hopes that they would support his agenda...funny thing about a job you cannot be fired from...it sometimes gives you balls to do what you think is right instead of what is expected of you for the bullet proof job you were given. 
Now would'nt it be interesting to have him impeached and convicted while the chief
justice he appointed sat as the judge...now there is irony or fantasy depending on ones point of view.
thompson

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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/3/2007 8:53:43 PM   
juliaoceania


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But the thing is all of the Bush appointees (excluding Bush 41's Souter, who has been a deep disappointment for the Right) all had dissenting opinions... so their bullet proof jobs did not help them do the right thing... sighs.. from the article


quote:

New regulations limiting greenhouse gases would probably force automakers to produce vehicles that burn less gasoline.

Agreeing with Stevens' opinion in Massachusetts vs. EPA were Justices Anthony M. Kennedy, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer.

Disagreeing were the court's most consistently conservative members: Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel A. Alito.



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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/4/2007 12:06:29 AM   
Vendaval


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These decisions should have come sooner. 
I am encouraged by the Governator's support.

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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/4/2007 12:11:57 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

These decisions should have come sooner. 
I am encouraged by the Governator's support.


I personally take great pride that the State of California can make the Governator our bitch.

Sinergy

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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/4/2007 2:17:28 AM   
Real0ne


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i have to laugh, the car i had with the lowest tested emissions was a car that i pulled off the catalytic convertor and welded a straight pipe in its place and p[lugged all the emissions shit up to disable it.

they were like original readings/90 roughy


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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/4/2007 7:38:55 AM   
juliaoceania


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why would you do that?

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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/4/2007 8:14:50 AM   
childofpain


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i would think he did it for the same reasons i did it...MORE POWER....

i just don't drive my car in Cali......

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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/4/2007 8:24:50 AM   
juliaoceania


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We have an inversion layer over the state of California for half of the year. Pollution is excerbated by mountains in this state.... pollution has no where to go, therefore we have smog.

Now many Californians have a decreased quality of life due to this, we see smog as a threat, and we have a visible reminder of this much of the time. I guess this makes many Californians aware of autos that we call "gross polluters". Whenever I see a car spewing smoke I cringe. I also cringe when I see SUVs used to haul one child around to the grocery store.

I lived in an area bordering the Sierra National Forest near Yosemite for most of my life. The air up there was nice. Very little pollution. I moved to an area with a lot of air pollution and developed asthma as a result. I quit smoking which helped a great deal, but I still have trouble breathing on particularly smoggy days.

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/4/2007 8:45:27 AM   
childofpain


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see why i don't drive in cali....or live there for that matter...and i see more and more people from cali moving here

it is also my understand that if the car is smoking there is something wrong as in burning to much oil or water in the fuel....i keep my car in tune and fix even the smallest problem as soon as i know about it, it is my baby...i have done all the work on it myself...even switching over the engine to a bigger one :)   and painting it Hot Pink...giggles


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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/4/2007 8:46:43 AM   
Mercnbeth


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Lawyers raised to the Nth power as Supreme Court Judges dictating environmental policy. That's a formula for success. Success in raised prices, more anti-business regulations, issued by people riding in private jets and chauffeured to work, one by one, in limos. The politicians in Sacramento are tripping over themselves to get their signatures on any bill considered "green" even though the cost/benefit ratio is has little or no factual basis. But with an electorate easily willing to believe and unwilling to consider contrary evidence - what can you expect.

The story ignores a recent study that determined that a large percentage of the current pollution over LA comes from Asia. Are the considered regulations going into effect at the source?

All it takes is "intent", and projections that extend generations to discount current or historical observation and there you are.

I always found it amazing that a relatively new city - LA has no usable mass transit. I thought it incredible when I discovered I couldn't go direct by rail from LA to SF without some tangent bus ride along the way. But any attempt at new rail lines or mass transit results in protests from the environmental groups because the last remaining blind salamander was seen along the route.

Well, this will be another boon to the oil companies. Gas is already on average $0.75 higher in CA than it is in the rest of the country. Let's shoot for $5.00/gallon. I won't care - I have a gas card through my company and the more I pay for gas, the less I pay in taxes. Combining that with buying oil stocks and I can get behind this "green" movement. Being the astute businessman that he is, I wouldn't be surprised is that is the thought behind our Governor turning "green". It's all about green - greenbacks.

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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/4/2007 9:33:24 AM   
toservez


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The Supreme Court rule on the constitutional aspects of a law and/or decision, so the Supreme Court is not taken the lead in fighting global warming but ruling on whether the federal government had jurisdiction on being able to pass laws and states were forced to follow them.

King George was arguing for States rights in order to pass the buck and do nothing as a legal way and not to take a stand for or against the belief of global warming and to be forced into passing legislation. As with all things in Washington, and especially this President, this was politics.

In terms of pointing to other countries who are polluting the earth, if we are a great country, if we are a moral country, if we care about future generations in which all things most people agree to and certainly die hard right winger love to preach to us when talking about the Iraq war and so many other things, we must lead by example. Pointing fingers at countries we look down on and make statements like what about them or we will do it when they will do it, goes against the history of our countries and countries in history that strived for a better world. Are we a proactive nation or a reactive nation?



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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/4/2007 9:39:50 AM   
farglebargle


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Yeah, well if he wants "States Rights", let him honor the States Rights to legislate across the board.

That's the problem with this hypocracy. I'm NOT a fan of the feds, and the way I look at it, is if it's important enough to delegate to the Feds, it's important enough for a Constitutional Amendment.

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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/4/2007 9:58:17 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Are we a proactive nation or a reactive nation?
Obviously we are a reactive nation. There is a vocal sector shouting about one interpretation of the changing weather patterns and people are reacting.

Religion is no longer desired path for a growing segment of the population. That doesn't change the fact that people have an inborn desire to believe in something. "Global Warming" fits all the requirements for being a religion. It requires faith. The consequences of disbelief and inaction are the end of the world. It's beginning to resemble a religion even more in its persecution of 'non-believers'. 

A scientist with a descending opinion are mocked and either referred to as emissaries for an oil company or directly on their payroll. A reason for compliance is economic. There are people willing and ready in academia to give money to any theory supporting global warming. Contrary scientific studies are subject to censorship, loss of tenure, and ostracizing.

Colleges and universities have no relevance to the actual world. It's a bastion of the "those who can't - teach" ilk. The global warming brings a religious dogma purposely missing in consideration of the more traditional religions. Once communism's shinning example, the USSR, was proved a failure, they sought another "god" to worship. With Al Gore as the Messiah, they found one.

quote:

  So how is it that we don't have more scientists speaking up about this junk science? It's my belief that many scientists have been cowed not merely by money but by fear. An example: Earlier this year, Texas Rep. Joe Barton issued letters to paleoclimatologist Michael Mann and some of his co-authors seeking the details behind a taxpayer-funded analysis that claimed the 1990s were likely the warmest decade and 1998 the warmest year in the last millennium. Mr. Barton's concern was based on the fact that the IPCC had singled out Mr. Mann's work as a means to encourage policy makers to take action. And they did so before his work could be replicated and tested--a task made difficult because Mr. Mann, a key IPCC author, had refused to release the details for analysis. The scientific community's defense of Mr. Mann was, nonetheless, immediate and harsh. The president of the National Academy of Sciences--as well as the American Meteorological Society and the American Geophysical Union--formally protested, saying that Rep. Barton's singling out of a scientist's work smacked of intimidation. All of which starkly contrasts to the silence of the scientific community when anti-alarmists were in the crosshairs of then-Sen. Al Gore. In 1992, he ran two congressional hearings during which he tried to bully dissenting scientists, including myself, into changing our views and supporting his climate alarmism. Nor did the scientific community complain when Mr. Gore, as vice president, tried to enlist Ted Koppel in a witch hunt to discredit anti-alarmist scientists--a request that Mr. Koppel deemed publicly inappropriate. And they were mum when subsequent articles and books by Ross Gelbspan libelously labeled scientists who differed with Mr. Gore as stooges of the fossil-fuel industry. Sadly, this is only the tip of a non-melting iceberg. In Europe, Henk Tennekes was dismissed as research director of the Royal Dutch Meteorological Society after questioning the scientific underpinnings of global warming. Aksel Winn-Nielsen, former director of the U.N.'s World Meteorological Organization, was tarred by Bert Bolin, first head of the IPCC, as a tool of the coal industry for questioning climate alarmism. Respected Italian professors Alfonso Sutera and Antonio Speranza disappeared from the debate in 1991, apparently losing climate-research funding for raising questions. Source: http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008220 


quote:

The bottom line is, the bulk of scientific evidence shows that what we've been told by environmentalists is pure bunk. Source: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/guests/s_500531.html


quote:

Can we save the Democratic Party, and the rest of the nation, from the irrational, and often violent, temper tantrums of these New Age fascists?

A made-for-television documentary, aired March 8 on Britain's Channel 4, can prove to be one powerful remedy. Titled The Great Global Warming Swindle, the documentary is available
HERE  from the producers, Wag TV, in DVD format. A version can be found on the Internet (e.g., at YouTube), where the documentary is already becoming an underground classic.

The lie that no reputable scientist opposes the global warming myth is overturned within about the first five minutes of viewing: The film features more than a dozen experts, in climatology, oceanography, meteorology, and biogeography from such institutions as NASA, the International Arctic Research Center, the Pasteur Institute, and MIT. Source: http://mathaba.net/news/?x=552449 


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RE: Justices push EPA to act on car emissions - 4/4/2007 10:06:55 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: childofpain

see why i don't drive in cali....or live there for that matter...and i see more and more people from cali moving here

it is also my understand that if the car is smoking there is something wrong as in burning to much oil or water in the fuel....i keep my car in tune and fix even the smallest problem as soon as i know about it, it is my baby...i have done all the work on it myself...even switching over the engine to a bigger one :)   and painting it Hot Pink...giggles




I am more than happy people are moving from California, because we have had the highest population growth of any other state due to other Americans moving here for the most part for literally several decades. I would be pleased as punch if millions left and never came back...less pollution, less crime, more affordable housing, and more chance for me to get my ocean view craftsman home. My family migrated to California and homesteaded in Yosemite National Park in the 1870s. I plan on being here until I die.... this is my home and there is no place better that I have seen when all factors are considered... not to mention that I identify with the Californian culture... so does Daddy (his family has been here as long as mine).

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