RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall

RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (Full Version)

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iFraudius -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 4:07:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Amaros It cracks me up sometimes that vanilla's aso horrified by power exchangfe dynamics wne baicly thy are insisting that thing be done "their way" without the least bit of understanding of how that way evolved or why. Before I get some sleep (and I'm not sure if you were directing this to me, or simply hit "Fast Reply", Amaros). I heartily agree with that comment, and my agreement is based on the pack behavior of people in institutional settings of all kinds, be they intimate relationships or the flock of sheep one may have to suffer at work everyday. People operate out of programming and it's largely programming they are unconscious of, (hence the "subconscious"). Awakenings on the conscious plane are the exception, not the norm. Those of us who's paradigms are at odds with the majority are forced to examine and hopefully, discern, how we are programmed and how to best adjust to our needs. Those who find easy agreement have far less motivation to do so. Their idea of what is "right" fits the construct of most of the people and aligned situations they function in and they can meet their needs much more easily. I suppose another human trait, the tendency to deride those who are different and inflate one's sense of superiority in the process, is at work to some extent, as well.

servilecat -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 4:09:14 AM)
On a pleasant note i still like the shock value on my Mom. She came back to life when i came by the nursing home a few years ago with my boyfriend/Protector and my girlfirend/His wife who's Master lives in new York. Considering this is the woman that thinks Quest for Fire is a porno.....i think it probably got her blood pressure back up where it is supposed to be. Thank goodness she accepts and adores my Daddy. i come from a good Catholic family that has officially made the art of eye rolling an olympic sport. Most of my older female friends and my sisters think it's so horrible that i get Daddy's permission or ask His guidance on situations. i look at it as, they just wish they had the relationship we have. If none of that works i just remember i am doing a charity to my older sister by taking her place in the pasture because she just thought she was the black sheep of the family......All in all my family knows ive been bi, ive been kinky and ive been, well, just me....and i happen to be adorable and i am sure you are as well.[:)]

gypsygrl -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 4:35:43 AM)
I think it is more socially acceptable to be "dominant" particularly for heterosexual females in liberal/progressive circles. After I attended my first scene event, I introduced my interest in kink to my parents and they seemed to automatically assume I was dominant. I think that has a lot to do with my position within the family but also because its a lot safer an image for people. At that time, I didn't do anything to correct the assumption because people generally believe what they're able to handle at any point in time. I gave a really santitized, "safe for mom and dad" version of things and described it as being just like a church pot luck except with something extra going on in the basement. (thats what the play parties always reminded me of lol) I must of emphasized educational activities/demos and stuff because months later my mom asked me at dinner if I was still attending those classes and everyone was like, "huh?" and she was like, "you know, those workshops." Apparantly, that was as far as she was willing to go because I said something like they weren't exactly classes and she was like, "yes they are!" It was funny and the conversation moved on to safewords because my dad had seen something about it on tv. Up to recently, the particulars of my involvement with this stuff hasn't really been an issue and I just let them think whatever they want because there hasn't been anyone in my life that they really need to know about in any detail and I haven't been in a relationship that they need to understand. Lately, my sisters been asking questions about my current interest and I think she's trying to tease out my lifestyle identification and how the relationship works. For example, I was visiting her, and excused myself to make a phone call, and she asked if he ever calls me. I said no, and I wouldn't expect him to..its a pretty structured relationship and we left it at that. Before the first meet, she acted as my safecall so I showed her this site and my profile and his and gave her all the information and just told her to call me at such a such a time, and if she doesn't hear from me in a couple days after that, call the dogs out. She was the only one I could think of to trust to handle that sort of thing because she's really good at following directions. Yesterday it came up again when she asked if he called me "ma'am" and I laughed and said "nah, its my role to say yes, sir," and the conversation moved on to other things. I guess I'm not the sort to make a big deal out of "coming out." The less drama the better. My sister came out as a lesbian when she was 16 and moved in with a woman quite a bit older than her, and that caused quite a stir and I have no wish to do that kind of thing. So, I just answer questions and deal with things as they come up. I think the fact that my family's already been through a dramatic coming out makes it easier because its that much harder to shock them. I love the phrase "fashionably perverse." It captures so much. :)

onestandingstill -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 5:09:44 AM)
I'm one of the lucky ones who's friends just took my choice to be into BDSM in stride. Many asked me how and why, but in the end they respected it works for me and are OK with it. Some of them even broke down their pre-conceived walls relating to S&M play and incorporate it into their lives on some levels too. My Best friend & her 23 yr old daughter, my 23yr old daughter & my 19 son have even been curious enough to see my bruised butt after a heavy dungeon scene. Mind you I pulled up the edge of my shorts only for my son and didn't show him my whole butt. All 4 were sort of shocked by the massive bruising, but just rolled their eyes or giggled. They all asked me questions about my motivation, how I felt getting the spankings, and why I thought it was hot or fun. Though all of them are fully vanilla and have no interest they all have honest curiosity as to my life and choice. Even my church lady friends hear the fact I'm into BDSM and still accept me. The only person who changed how they think of me was my boss. He thinks I'm crazy & he does not understand at all. LOL he thinks I'm punishing myself for my failed marriage. Even though he's repulsed I'm still working for him 2 years after he found out. I hear often it causes discord to come out for people. I just Thank God didn't have that experience & live my life wide open to the notion I'm kinky. Over all I'd say if your friends love you they'll come around to accepting this new part of you they see. If they can't accept you unconditionally maybe you should reconsider being their friend. suzanne

Amaros -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 5:17:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iFraudius quote: ORIGINAL: Amaros It cracks me up sometimes that vanilla's aso horrified by power exchangfe dynamics wne baicly thy are insisting that thing be done "their way" without the least bit of understanding of how that way evolved or why. Before I get some sleep (and I'm not sure if you were directing this to me, or simply hit "Fast Reply", Amaros). I heartily agree with that comment, and my agreement is based on the pack behavior of people in institutional settings of all kinds, be they intimate relationships or the flock of sheep one may have to suffer at work everyday. People operate out of programming and it's largely programming they are unconscious of, (hence the "subconscious"). Awakenings on the conscious plane are the exception, not the norm. Those of us who's paradigms are at odds with the majority are forced to examine and hopefully, discern, how we are programmed and how to best adjust to our needs. Those who find easy agreement have far less motivation to do so. Their idea of what is "right" fits the construct of most of the people and aligned situations they function in and they can meet their needs much more easily. I suppose another human trait, the tendency to deride those who are different and inflate one's sense of superiority in the process, is at work to some extent, as well. Heh, yes, I see from my spelling that I'm weeeell into my cups, but I think that's essentially what I'm attempting to communicate: "rightness", or "fit" is a basically Narcissistic paradigm, and how profound any derived predjudiceds are are essentially a product of the profunidty of the particular pathology. Group fitnes conveyes benefits to the individual, otherwise it woul not be, ut anot everyone grasps the objective divisions between group and individual fitness, or is capable of assessing a given siuation on that basis - "pride" is a group level assessment of fitness, but also the assessment that conscripted "unfit" individuals to the basement, the attic, or the tender mercies of psychopathic physicians in days of yore, and all too often the even tenderer mercies of political representitives today: I take pride in knowing that no-one entrusted to my care has ever recieved less than ethical and humane treatment whereas every time I buy I make a cell phone call or buy a candy bar I have to consider who may have died or had their lives irrevocably altered for the worse for the privilage. To find evil - the "devil" - one only has to look in the mirror, and ethics are not always entirely cut and dried - just too complicated for the average spoon fed American, hanging on the next pitch, better than half their cognitive/analytic registers are tied up just calculating "what other people think" and the potential - usually inconsequentaial - social consequences. Right and wrong typically bring up the rear, sad to say, group vs. individual fitness, and in "moral" assessments as opposed to ethical ones, group fitness actually suffers more often than not, while individual fitness seldom benefits as a consequence- much due to simple disruption of social learning (culture) and communication patterns for the sake of some pathological abstraction of "perfection", which more typically resembles active disfunction. Ethics are best reduced to a cost/benefit ratio: who is benifitting and who is bearing the cost: social or otherwise - figure that put and you'll begin to grasp what justice actually is in purely technical terms.

Mercnbeth -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 5:57:49 AM)
quote: I'm looking for some experienced perspective on a rather melodramatic issue that's come up for me recently: "comming out", I guess you could say, or at the least, allowing it to be known by friends and family that I belong to someone else now. If this is merely how you get your kink on, this slave wouldn’t be too terribly in a hurry to let everyone know. As many have mentioned, there is no need to give information about what goes on behind closed bedroom or dungeon doors. Being “kinky” in the bedroom isn’t as scary to the nilla’s as this being your choice of how you live your life, but it could be too much information, even if there was no kink involved. Some folks really don't want to hear about others sex lives. If this is a lifestyle change for you, then this slave would encourage you to embrace it, focus on the things your owner wishes you to, and enjoy your new life. If friends and family are truly interested in your fulfillment of your life, who are they to tell you how you must live it? Before Master, this slave went about her day doing things for everyone---family, friends, strangers, etc. It was made apparent to this slave that one day she would have to make some drastic changes, push the nestlings out from the nest and have a life. So she went about doing just that. When this slave changed her way of life into an M/s relationship, she wasn’t just doing it from inside the closed bedroom door. It happened as other changes were going on, family moving in other directions, nestlings leaving the nest, etc. Explanations were given to certain important individuals and others were left wondering what the hell happened. When asked, this slave explained to them, “Hey, remember how I used to basically be everyone’s slave? (they did) Well, I’ve decided to serve one person of my choice from now on and He is a wonderful man.” There really wasn’t any need to get into the details of how well this slave’s sexual masochism responds to His sexual sadism, how we fit together in the dungeon and the bedroom like a hand in a glove or even how He "had" this slave at "Hello". Everyone in this slave’s little rural world knew of the heartache she had been through when attempting anything considered “normal” or “vanilla” as a dynamic for a relationship structure. From childhood to friendship to marriage to employment to motherhood, this slave was a submissive servant. Whenever this slave “acted” dominant, nobody bought it except the dogs. Many were shocked that this slave would be so selfish as to confine her servitude to ONE MAN. It was important to this slave, to have Mom's blessing. Winning her over was a cinch as she had been preparing this slave to serve an owner since day one. In her vernacular, though, this slave is merely doing what a good "wife" does, not slave, and in her mind, this slave finally found a good and decent man to turn her life over to. as we become ONE, she makes Him and our relationship the most important thing---yes, more important than either or both of our unmentionables, friends or family combined. In her mind, a good coupling is one that the focus is on one another, they compliment one another, and it shows, without a need for an explanation or to be validated by anyone. More than 4 years later, we are still riding happily in that sunset.[:)] Good Luck!!!

kyraofMists -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 8:26:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Inhibitor So, for any slaves reading - have you found a way to give your loved ones a head's up on your status? Is it really better to say nothing at all? And if so, how do you manage to keep absolutely everything under wraps? Wouldn't you have to lie on occasion, to explain actions you're taking or changes you've made? And for any masters packing property - if you're open with your activities, how do you explain them to your group? Is it better to just shut down a relationship if the person sees your actions in an objectionable light? F*ck 'em if they can't take a joke? Out of respect for the people we love and that love us and we know would not understand our choices in life, we are discreet and we do not see a reason to let them in on the intimate details of our life. On the other hand, most people are aware that he is the boss in our relationship. They don't know that he is master and frankly they don't need to know. We have different protocols for interacting around people who are not aware of relationship structure and most people just think we have very old fashioned values where the man is the head of the house and the one in control. We do not discuss SM with people who don't already know or with people we don't think will understand. It is part of our intimate activity together, part of our sex life and we don't share that with just anyone. Early in my relationship with him, my mom asked me if I was being abused. She saw fingernail scratches on my back and drew her own conclusions. I answered her questions calmly and while she wasn't convinced at the time she has slowly come to realize that he is not abusing me and that he would do anything to keep me safe. If I had become defensive with her and shut down communication because she expressed an opinion that I didn't like, I imagine that she would still be questioning my choices. I also learned to respect her boundary about marks on me. If I am marked, I will make sure that I am not wearing clothing that will reveal those marks to her. She loves me and only asked questions out of concern. The way I responded to that concern has helped her reach the conclusion that I am in a healthy relationship. I imagine that you chose to have friendships with these people for a reason. You have given them the burden of knowing about the intimate details of your life. They have now expressed their concerns about your choices. How you handle their concerns is going to have a big impact on what conclusions they ulitmately reach. If you get defensive, react negatively, shut doors, don't answer their questions and then just shut them out of your life, then they are going to think that they are right. Giving them this information may have touched on their own boundaries just like seeing marks on me did with my mom. Show them that you care about their friendship by respecting their boundaries, answer their questions, help them gain knowledge so they can understand your choices. In the end it may be that you do lose a few friendships, but how you react to them now will go a long way to maintaining positive relationships with them. Knight's kyra

mixielicous -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 8:34:44 AM)
to the OP: one of those threads posted by LA up there, could possible be mine. i started this same thread, with the same dilemmas. i was shocked at how feverent [sp??] people were at discouraging me. i was downright hurt, horrified and totally dumbfounded. i read horror story one after another. there were some good ones, but they were tiny glimmers in the shadows. my biggest surprise had to be the fact that people did not want to be known and appreciated for 100% of what they are ..... needles to say i never "came out" but to a few close friends. only two were mortified, and one was able to look past that and we still talk, like we used to. upon second consideration, there was no need to come out to my family. i recognize that people who care a lot about you will only see the negative out of worry .... and we cant hold that against them. they think they are doing whats best for us. as long as a stay true to myself, and my new friends [yes i am open with ALL new friends vanilla or otherwise] i find there is no need to cause unjust worry upon my family.... after all they knew "how i was" as a teen and prolly wouldnt be surprised anyways, but i prefer to make other peoples lives easier [submissive anyone?] and thats why i decided to hold out. . . . . . . although - i dont think my brother is an idiot hehe [8\|]

MasterHyde -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 10:17:06 AM)
quote: I wonder though, if a dominant nature is more easily accepted by the masses than a submissive one. My Master has a pet he uses to tend to me. I find it interesting when I tell certain friends I have a servant to clean my home and do my menial tasks, they are thrilled for me, yet when I say I can not wait to serve my Master's needs, they shudder. ownedgirlie I don't know if it's more accepted, but one thing you don't have to deal with as a dominant is people wanting to "rescue" you. Or, maybe it's because I'm a 42 year old man who's 6'-3" and more than capable of defending himself. People just don't feel that same protective instinct towards me that Inhibitor's friends feel towards her. There's a certain natural programming we have towards some people. It's biological instinct as well as just love and caring. This usually applies to children, women, or anyone who we perceive as more vulnerable than ourselves. Inhibitor being a young woman, I'm sure a lot of her friends are reacting to these instincts, which are compounded by not really understanding a lot about her submissive and/or masochistic nature, or being able to accept that as something healthy or normal.

Inhibitor -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 10:20:02 AM)
Want to thank everyone for their thoughts - I appreciate your words and where you're comming from. To clear up a little bit of this, though, I'd like to point out that it's not about divulging details of my sex life any more than it'd be so if friends/family knew I was dating someone in a conventional way. I have no need to tell them about really personal things, just as I grant that they've no real need to know. More the point is that my slavery exists outside of a bedroom, and because those I keep close to me are perceptive folks, it's going to be apparent at one point or another that something 'odd' is afoot. And for the same reason I'd tell someone before hand if they were going to start seeing me with a big yellow cone on my head from now on, I feel it's best to offer some explanatory preamble now. Wouldn't it be that much harder to accept if it was found out by "accident"? And beyond that, I've simply no wish to say "this is me, and how I've decided to organize my life, and I love it but uh, turn around for a sec so I don't have to show it." I came out as bisexual a handful of years ago, no problem. I've moved cross country twice to live with people my friends never met. I've showed up at parties with cuts and I regularly dive off cliffs, with the reception that despite some seriously unconventional tastes, I'm mentally/spiritually/ethically pretty together. One of the people freaking out over this told me a few months ago she'd entered into a polyamorous relationship and was moving overseas to marry a man she'd known less than a month for a visa, after which she was going to join his body modification exhibitionist troupe. Seriously. So I really am pretty shocked. Anyway, thanks again for the feedback. To live by example, as offered by many, is sounding like a palatable alternative to burning bridges, for now.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 11:24:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous feverent [sp??] Close- fervent :)

zindyslave -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 5:38:31 PM)
I haven't told my family at all, they would most certainly not accept it. Even tho the way I am living my lifestyle is close to what my parents was it has different things to it. I have told one friend and we have been friends for years since grade school really. He accepts it and even tho he doesn't understand it and knows that isn't for him he knows that is a part of me and excepts it. So, there is alittle bit of a happy story for the OP. [:D]

domiguy -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 6:03:50 PM)
If you cherish your personal relationships with people it is best not to come out and divulge every aspect along with the nature of your relationship....It has little to do with your choice of friends but everything to do with your lack of judgement as to why they should be tolerant or supportive of your relationship.

smartiepants -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 6:12:11 PM)
i have told most people in my life about everything. They either are ok with it(just not for them) or the hate it and everything about it(not knowing a thing about it). i accept that not everyone accepts me, and what i enjoy and thats ok. What i dont get is when in a place full of open minded people in this lifestyle, they looked at me like i was a freak of nature. this really made me think ......

ownedgirlie -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 6:20:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: smartiepants What i dont get is when in a place full of open minded people in this lifestyle, they looked at me like i was a freak of nature. this really made me think ...... I have learned it is incorrect to assume that everyone in this "lifestyle" is open minded.

smartiepants -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 6:28:12 PM)
They must me open minded. Why else would they be in this lifestlye full of perversion and such.. just for a fun time ?? If its not being open minded, then what is it called??

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 9:20:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: smartiepants They must me open minded. Why else would they be in this lifestlye full of perversion and such.. just for a fun time ?? If its not being open minded, then what is it called?? Kinky. Kinky people are just as closed minded as anyone else. Just because a person is open about the things THEY are into, doesn't at all mean they are open about things that OTHERS are into.

sublizzie -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/1/2007 9:25:36 PM)
Being with kinky people is like being with Baptist people. Some are open-minded and friendly. Some are close-minded and certain you are going to hell no matter what you do to try to prove you are worthy of their esteem. Kinky people are people first and kinky second. Being kinky is not about being open minded but being kinky.

MaamJay -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/2/2007 12:34:26 AM)
I agree with much of what has been said. I have made careful and deliberate choices as to who to tell and who not to tell. For Me, it's more than letting out "bedroom secrets" ... I keep that to a minimum even when I do tell! It's more about selection of partners ... living poly creates obvious questions which just can't be hidden from family and friends! I haven't come out to Mother ... she's 84 and frail and doesn't need that stress. Nonetheless, she has obviously seen the progress from the 3 of us living together, to the deterioration of the relationship with hubby/former attempted sub/now ex-hubby, to Master and my moving across country to be together. She was a bit nonplussed for a while (especially as Master is 15 years younger than me!), but she now tells me I am happier than she has seen me in years, and so she's happy with that. If the potential slave I am interviewing tomorrow works out and ultimately becomes live-in, well, being 5000km from Mum should make it easier to hide that! However, a cover story for Master's family who live 3 hours away, could be more tricky. I have told My sister and some close friends whom I thought could handle it, about the D/s side of the relationships. I have avoided the word "slave", and stressed that submission is not weakness, it takes strength and courage. I also mention what a relief it can be to relinquish control, especially for someone like me, who is usually in control. I explain the difference between Dominant and domineering, and describe the Dominant's role as one of responsibility and decision-making. I have described how in vanilla relationships there is power exchange ... just that most of it occurs "under the table" and power gets wrested back and forth. Most people can identify with that, and if you know them well enough, you can sometimes use an eg from their lives to describe it. I explain that in D/s, the power exchange comes above the table and is openly discussed and negotiated. Those I have told have been interested, asked lots of good questions, and seem to get a good grasp on what I am saying. They inevitably ask about the "whips and chains" ... I say it can be about that, but that isn't ALL it's about, and for us, that's only a small part of it. They've not had any trouble accepting Me as Dominant, they've had a lot more trouble getting their head around me being submissive ... but as I am a natural leader, I can understand that. Even bdsm friends were gobsmacked when i first met Master and took bets on how long it would be till i said "Get your own damn drink!" LOL! They were proved wrong of course, as Master and i have now been together 24/7 for over 3 years. So ... to the OP and others ... I would urge caution in who you tell and who you don't. Be careful not to burden someone with information they don't need out of some selfish desire to offload it. On the other hand, try not to get yourself embroiled in a web of lies you can't keep straight. Loss of trust due to deceit is likely to be worse than loss of trust due to telling an unpalatable truth. And I agree entirely with the concept that if people can see YOU are happy and confident in your choices and not getting "lost" or devalued as a person ... then they will come to some level of acceptance that this is right for you. Good luck! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

Vendaval -> RE: skeletons, closets, and a big brick wall (4/2/2007 1:06:33 AM)
Hello Inhibitor, After being pretty open when I first came out, now I operate on a "need to know" basis. People who had been accepting of me being Pagan and bisexual could not take the Kink and poly parts. Go figure. Sometimes friends and family will become more accepting after getting to know your partners and finding that you have not come to any serious harm. Sometimes they will never accept your choices. Only time will tell. I wish you well in your journey. Regards, Vendaval

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