Legality of Consensuality

Legality of Consensuality (Full Version)

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QuixoticOtaku -> Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 3:37:46 PM)
Hello, I was reading this article in the Village Voice about a Dom who may face life in prison for living a BDSM lifestlye. The submissive basically took it to a lawyer who took it to the feds. His style is way more hard-core than mine; however, I admire him for taking a stand and not pleading guilty on this. The jury said that she consented to a non-consensual situation so her consent was meaningless? I mean how messed-up is that? I think that she was into it then got mad that he would not take her pictures down so decided to rewrite history--that she was actually really scared and felt she could not get away... that it wasn't what she really wanted. http://www.villagevoice.com/people/0712,taormino,76097,24.html

Archer -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 3:56:48 PM)
There are legally speaking rights you cannot give away. The right to leave, The right to live, The right to consent to sexual use, etc The reason safewords and such became the rage was they demonstrated the idea in easy for non kinky people to understand that we were involved in consensual activities and that the legal right to stop the action was always there. This does not mean that they WILL save you in court, but the odds are increased that you will not end up in jail. A boxer or full contact sport is a decent anologous reference, sinc ethey can walk off the field at any time their consent to be hit within the context of the game is established. However if they have thrown in the towel and they are walking away and the other party does not stop then it becomes battery.

mixielicous -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 3:58:03 PM)
hmmm i wonder if she used her safe word. i admire him for not taking the plea

Archer -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 4:06:27 PM)
I think the hinge of the case was on the idea that she said "She felt like she could not leave." regardless of if it was a bad Master good slave or if it was a vengefull slave good master, the "right to walk away" was negated in the eyes of the jury. (The fact that the man didn't remove pictures after the fact while maybe not a legal requirement certainly hurt him in the eyes of the jury)

slaveish -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 4:25:59 PM)
There were a couple of shocking things in this story. This dude could get life in prison (and it doesn't sound as though he was depraved or sociopathic), and "Under federal sentencing guidelines, if BDSM is part of the crime, a longer sentence is recommended." Archer, I agree with you about the photos. He was well within his rights as her Master to do whatever he wished with the photos but it sure didn't help his case (and it seems that's what started the whole thing).

missturbation -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 4:28:35 PM)
The problem is noone knows what really goes on behind closed doors except those involved. The sub may just be being vindictive for some reason or she could be telling the truth.

shadevarr -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 5:35:42 PM)
It really sounds like she was pissed that he didn't take the pics down and wanted to "make him pay"

missturbation -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 5:43:22 PM)
That was my initial thought too. I had a similar issue with an ex. He had taken pics of me and we planned to sell them, anyway we split and he went on with the plans to sell these pics against my wishes. My solicitor told me that because he had taken them and owned the negs etc he owned the rights to them. Go figure.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 5:53:10 PM)
A) Do any of you know who Tristan Toarmino is? (OK I know some of you do) Google her- she's a very fun person, well educated, well known in the scene and pretty much THE best anal play source of our time. B) We started discussing this article here: http://www.collarchat.com/m_835632/tm.htm Where I said: I always knew this guy as GMYourGod on AOL and always just called him GM. I didn't connect it to being "the Glenn Marcus" until just tonight. We talked often on AOL back in 1998, as well as some phone conversations, and picked up some correspondence again in 2004. I also avidly followed the websites he had his slaves put up here and there. But, what he wanted (and he made absolutely plain what he wanted) was not what I was going for and nothing happened beyond some good discussion. My impression of him was always that he was an absolute genius as well as a sadistic bastard. While I could believe he manipulated a heck of a lot of people, I'm not sure I'd say he ever manipulated anyone who didn't want to be. But these are only my own personal reflections. I have no evidence of anything, good or bad.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 5:55:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveish There were a couple of shocking things in this story. This dude could get life in prison (and it doesn't sound as though he was depraved or sociopathic), and "Under federal sentencing guidelines, if BDSM is part of the crime, a longer sentence is recommended." Archer, I agree with you about the photos. He was well within his rights as her Master to do whatever he wished with the photos but it sure didn't help his case (and it seems that's what started the whole thing). Actually, I am not sure that is correct about the pictures and that is because we are talking about the term "image". While, as her master, he certainly had the right (BDSM, not necessarily legal) to take them...if that had been agreed to...by law, unless he had a signed release in his hand that gave him the rights to the photos and that they then could be used as he deemed appropriate whether for sale or just public display, he was guilty of using another's image in an illegal manner. Unless his slave was a celebrity...who seem to lose certain rights to their image simply because they ARE a celebrity...she doesn't lose the right to her image and what can be done with it.

Archer -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 5:55:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brownsugasub69 If i wents home too Mike Tyson's crib after drinkin cognac all night I woulnt ever complain to no one about gettn raped.....My bad. Nobody here has said anything to defend rape. What has been mentioned is the possibility of charges filed as revenge for other percieved wrongs. She consented to the pictures being taken and used on the website and later wanted them taken down. Is it a case of revenge? I don't know I didn't hear ALL the evidence the jury heard and niether did anyone else here I assume. Most of us are simply examining the case as for how it effects our own practices of kink, or D/s.

KatyLied -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 5:58:43 PM)
quote: I suspect it was tough for the defense to get a jury to understand such an unorthodox dynamic to begin with, let alone the difference between a healthy one and a dysfunctional one. That's understandable. I know that I've seen things written by slaves in M/s relationships and I question their level of dysfunction and their relationship (thinking to myself, whoa, that sounds abusive). And I try to keep an open mind. I can see how jurors might struggle with some things.

missturbation -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 5:59:00 PM)
unless he had a signed release in his hand that gave him the rights to the photos and that they then could be used as he deemed appropriate whether for sale or just public display, he was guilty of using another's image in an illegal manner. Maybe its differant in the USA but if you read my post above you will see i took legal advice about a very similar matter and was told he owned the rights to the pics and i had not signed anything.

Archer -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 6:04:18 PM)
Well to put the pictures up on a commercial website (as mentioned in the articles) means he had to have had a model release statement in order to comply with 18 US Code 2257 proving the picture was of a person over 18.

Celeste43 -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 6:56:08 PM)
She did withdraw consent. She was applying for a job as a school teacher and withdrew consent for the pics being up. His response was to tell her that he would send the pics to the school board if she didn't get her sister to join as his newest slave and that the two sisters would be expected to have sex together. All courtesy of the New York Daily News. A rag but one that covered the story in salacious detail.

Wildfleurs -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 7:02:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross A) Do any of you know who Tristan Toarmino is? (OK I know some of you do) Google her- she's a very fun person, well educated, well known in the scene and pretty much THE best anal play source of our time. B) We started discussing this article here: http://www.collarchat.com/m_835632/tm.htm Where I said: I always knew this guy as GMYourGod on AOL and always just called him GM. I didn't connect it to being "the Glenn Marcus" until just tonight. We talked often on AOL back in 1998, as well as some phone conversations, and picked up some correspondence again in 2004. I also avidly followed the websites he had his slaves put up here and there. But, what he wanted (and he made absolutely plain what he wanted) was not what I was going for and nothing happened beyond some good discussion. My impression of him was always that he was an absolute genius as well as a sadistic bastard. While I could believe he manipulated a heck of a lot of people, I'm not sure I'd say he ever manipulated anyone who didn't want to be. But these are only my own personal reflections. I have no evidence of anything, good or bad. I remember him from AOL also, and I remember the numerous online interventions attempted on that particular woman (and her NUMEROUS and annoying proclimations of devotion). Honestly I talked to him once or twice probably ten or eleven years ago and I was convinced he was a little nuts and silly, but he certainly was crystal clear about his expectations. C~

Devilslilsister -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 7:10:11 PM)
i dont admire him for not taking the plea, i think he's fricken stupid. Balance it out.. no jail time... or life in prison... hmmmmm With the law, one should never apply ethics or morals....... unless you want to get royally screwed. i think the whole thing sucks. I wonder what it means for the future.. what precedents are being set.... and does this mean there will be a time when "playing" or a M/s relationship is just WAY too much of a risk to engage in? With crap like this, we're going to end up with alot of hestitant Dominants not wanting to engage in anything.... thats my question - how will this impact the future?

Devilslilsister -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 7:11:29 PM)
quote: I remember him from AOL also, and I remember the numerous online interventions attempted on that particular woman (and her NUMEROUS and annoying proclimations of devotion). Honestly I talked to him once or twice probably ten or eleven years ago and I was convinced he was a little nuts and silly, but he certainly was crystal clear about his expectations. Same here, but i didnt interact with him much. He directed me one of his slave's journal website.. i think it was.. fascinating stuff.... but i was always much more interested in bothering Absolute Overlord

QuixoticOtaku -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/22/2007 10:23:02 PM)
I think a couple people made a good point about safewords, and Archer illustrated for me what rights cannot be given away. Personally, I have found those profiles asking for those extreme situations--no safe word, total slavery--interesting but not for me. Some people like to say a Dom/me is not "real" or is just a "fake" unless they are cruel and into total control, 24/7. Some subs have blackmail fantasies so the situation of the woman in the article reminded me of those who had written about that predicament as a turn-on. And... how do I get this stupid vanilla cone off my tagline?

KnightofMists -> RE: Legality of Consensuality (3/23/2007 7:34:44 AM)
He played russian roulette with his freedom and it looks like he lost.

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