RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This?

RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 2:19:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Topple Bush Dot Com??? You're joking. Neither what you post nor what ferryman posted backs up ferryman's earlier claim that Americans cannot protest. We could dive into your endless unrelated debate, but why... it isn't like there weren't "Free Speech Zones" around John Kerry and the DNC convention, so what is your point. You throw up the most biased links you can find to prove... what, exactly. If that is some kind of a joke I don't get it. Or are you really trying to be serious? quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Hmm i got hits that went right off the map so would you like to comment on this as well? you forget to add these: quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne So we can only protest if we are bound and gagged and in the closet! So where do you place our right to dissent under these circumstances? What sense are you talking about exactly? So you are saying that because they are biased they NOT true is that it?

Sanity -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 2:27:12 PM)
I am saying that you should post a link to CNN reporting on how Americans cannot protest. Let's see the the police in some big Liberal city busting heads just for protesting. That's what was claimed - back it up. quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne So you are saying that because they are biased they NOT true is that it?

popeye1250 -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 2:27:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 And the West has poured in over $400 B into Africa over the last 40 years through the good ol "U.N."! Where has all that money gone? Might want to read "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man." Most of that money was provided as loans, and when the country cannot make the interest payments, the next step is military action. When the new government is installed, they are informed that the debts are not forgiven. Sinergy Sinergy, our government shouldn't be in the Foreign Aid Business in the first place. I don't want my govt. giving my money to foreign countries under any circumstances. RealOne, they had those "Free Speech" cages set up in Boston at the Democratic National Convention! lol They had 8 feet high chain-link fences set up in parking lots that they could lock people into far away from the candidates and delegates with plenty of Boston cops around them. You just have to ask yourself how far out were those people that the Democrats didn't even want to be around them?

Real0ne -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 2:36:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I am saying that you should post a link to a CNN report on how Americans cannot protest. Let's see the riot police busting heads just for protesting. That's what was claimed - back it up. quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne So you are saying that because they are biased they NOT true is that it? Protest Zones Set Up by Secret Service at Presidential Stops Around Country Aired January 9, 2004 - 07:31 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's go back to this issue about security in America. Since September 11, Americans have made sacrifices in the name of national security. But the ACLU, the American Civil Liberties Union now taking issue with the way the Bush administration keeps protesters away from the president. Is it a threat to free speech or is it simply protection for the commander-in-chief? http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0401/09/ltm.12.html

Sanity -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 2:41:00 PM)
That's not what was claimed. Of course the Secret Service is going to keep the President safe, and as popeye pointed out the Democrats like to keep a safe distance from the loonies too. That point was never in question! What was claimed is that Americans cannot protest at all, and that is why the anti-war protests are always so tiny. Do you have any evidence supporting that claim or not? quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's go back to this issue about security in America. Since September 11, Americans have made sacrifices in the name of national security. But the ACLU, the American Civil Liberties Union now taking issue with the way the Bush administration keeps protesters away from the president. Is it a threat to free speech or is it simply protection for the commander-in-chief? http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0401/09/ltm.12.html

Real0ne -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 2:46:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity That's not what was claimed. Of course the Secret Service is going to keep the President safe, and as popeye pointed out the Democrats like to keep a safe distance from the loonies too. That point was never in question! What was claimed is that Americans cannot protest at all, and that is why the anti-war protests are always so tiny. Do you have any evidence supporting that claim or not? quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's go back to this issue about security in America. Since September 11, Americans have made sacrifices in the name of national security. But the ACLU, the American Civil Liberties Union now taking issue with the way the Bush administration keeps protesters away from the president. Is it a threat to free speech or is it simply protection for the commander-in-chief? http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0401/09/ltm.12.html Thats not how i read his post so i cannot speak for him but you did get your cnn link from me that you wanted. i am saying that a protest zone violates our right to free speech because3 it gags use.

caitlyn -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 3:01:16 PM)
We should stop being afraid to use our wealth as a weapon ... and for God's sakes, stop giving that wealth away for nothing. Saddam could have been bribed for one-hundreth of the cost of this war. Even today, Iran would sell out Iraq in a minute, just to get their hands on parts for their F-14's, M60's and 155mm field artillery. All stuff we are going to throw away, by the way. The Byzantines existed for a thousand years, using this system ... "Here is the gold, and here is what you need to do in order to get it. Call us when you are ready to take delivery, and if we don't hear from you, we will be in contact with your mortal enemy."

Sanity -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 3:10:52 PM)
Use a carrot, a stick, and propaganda? It'll never happen. We're far too PC to do anything that makes perfect sense. quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn We should stop being afraid to use our wealth as a weapon ... and for God's sakes, stop giving that wealth away for nothing. Saddam could have been bribed for one-hundreth of the cost of this war. Even today, Iran would sell out Iraq in a minute, just to get their hands on parts for their F-14's, M60's and 155mm field artillery. All stuff we are going to throw away, by the way. The Byzantines existed for a thousand years, using this system ... "Here is the gold, and here is what you need to do in order to get it. Call us when you are ready to take delivery, and if we don't hear from you, we will be in contact with your mortal enemy."

ferryman777 -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 5:55:23 PM)
Excuse me, please; why don't you post a CNN link to show that americans can protest. Find out how such protests must be managed, the permits issued, type of protest, number of protestors expected, time, day of protest, location and route of protest, will there be any signs or banners, or loud speakers, or vehicles in said protest. I said it, you want to disprove it, so the burden rests upon you; and not anyone else. You spend the time, don't expect others to spend the time disproving what is already a known quatum. Martin Sheen and a bunch of anti nuke protestors are noted for their protests, and they are usually arrested. Why, because they do not have permission by virtue of a permit; so they are routinely ordered to dispearse, with no provacation to the police, usually they do not obey, and are subseqently arrested, and, hauled off to jail, or other detention facility, court date set, fine imposed, and or a bail. Now, you go and prove otherwise. Stop your wasted zero banter.

ferryman777 -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 5:57:54 PM)
You got it; simply, follow the money, the route to all evil.

Sternhand4 -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 6:00:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ferryman777 Excuse me, please; why don't you post a CNN link to show that americans can protest. Find out how such protests must be managed, the permits issued, type of protest, number of protestors expected, time, day of protest, location and route of protest, will there be any signs or banners, or loud speakers, or vehicles in said protest. I said it, you want to disprove it, so the burden rests upon you; and not anyone else. You spend the time, don't expect others to spend the time disproving what is already a known quatum. Martin Sheen and a bunch of anti nuke protestors are noted for their protests, and they are usually arrested. Why, because they do not have permission by virtue of a permit; so they are routinely ordered to dispearse, with no provacation to the police, usually they do not obey, and are subseqently arrested, and, hauled off to jail, or other detention facility, court date set, fine imposed, and or a bail. Now, you go and prove otherwise. Stop your wasted zero banter. They are normally arrested for trespassing, which is a crime, not like murder, but still a crime

ferryman777 -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 6:10:31 PM)
I don't know what this "sanity' is trying to prove; if you limit protest, arrest protestors etc.....in effect you can say americans cannot prtest, and didn't I qualify my statement by illustration, and Pariot Acts 1&2. Protest if you wish, you think you have the right, but the Patriot Acts say different, The Police say different, and since they have a problem with the basics of 'Free Speech' they have rules and laws concerning your capbility to express that so-called freedom to free speech. If you are arrested, violation of their (police) requirements, they will, and can search out your private life, files are created, FBI notified, harassments could ensue. So SAnity wants to go out into the street in prtest of...whatever.....good....let him excerise his american rights, as he thinks he has otherwise... Later he may want to apply for a job, who knows why he id denied. Or any other application, for a loan. Oh please, get real, free speech is a fantasy. He can be reported by any citizen, anywhere, to the Police, for plotting any type of protest, or anything against the government; in a bar or anywhere....so let him run off his big mouth, and....good...... he can ask his warden and guard not to be put in a cell with that really Big Black guy. Go for it.

ferryman777 -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 6:33:38 PM)
Exactly, tresspass on private property; THey had no permission to be there; If you protest in front of a business, on the sidewalk, with no permit you can be arrested. In front of a Casino, arrested, if you do not move. The police usually give you an order to leave, better do so immediately. I was standing on a public sidewalk, in front of a government building, taking pictures of a private building across the street, which my client had built. I was approached by two police, asked to leave, but first I was questioned as to why I was taking pictures, show ID, and had to prove why I was on a public sidewalk. Reason, A Fed building was across the street, No protest, but I left anyhow. Another time, I photographed a building from a playground...cops, same routine, but no fed buildings in site for 10 mile radius. Reason...children play in this playground....no children where there. Another time, a small group of protestors, were on a public street, small group, up comes two patrol cars, patrolmen talk to the protestors, ask for permits to be there, no permits, they are asked to leave, some turn and go, a few start to ARGUE THEIR RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH AND RIGHT TO ASSEMBLY...up against the hood of the patrolcar, hands behind back handcuffed, another reads the rights of the arrested person. Michael Moore in his film Farenheit 9-11 was filming in front of a federal building, approached by Secret Service, asked for papers to show he was allowed to film, had none, was told to leave, while this inquestion was going on, his cameraman was told to shut off his camera and lower it, he kept on unbtil the SS guy approached him, camera lowered, they left, in lieu of being arrested.....they were on a public street at the time. Where was my freedom, the freedom of that small group, of M.Moore, of M.Sheen.. then. A camera is a dangerous weapon evidently, as are protests, and unless you are obeying all the requirements...goodbye. No one is mentioning the Bill Moyers segment...what > you don't want to acknowledge the realities; easier to accept the lies your teacher told you and your president tells you. Have fun, I'm out of here.

Real0ne -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 6:46:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 RealOne, they had those "Free Speech" cages set up in Boston at the Democratic National Convention! lol They had 8 feet high chain-link fences set up in parking lots that they could lock people into far away from the candidates and delegates with plenty of Boston cops around them. You just have to ask yourself how far out were those people that the Democrats didn't even want to be around them? Our right to petition and redress, and dissent is history! They havent pissed anough people off yet that we do anything about it. Most people are fearful to do anything about it frankly. Lots of groups out there filing suits but it seems we need a publiuc slosh fund to sue the government as fast as they are making laws un make them, that and all contributions shold be tax deductible. Speaking of the UN. LOL Have you seen the movie idiocracy? Its hilarious!

caitlyn -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 7:54:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Use a carrot, a stick, and propaganda? It'll never happen. We're far too PC to do anything that makes perfect sense. A bit simplistic, don't you think? I would counter, that we should perhaps stop electing people based on how they preach about family values, and stop destroying truly ruthless men, because they got blowjobs. For every PC argument that can be labeled on one side, I can find a weak and silly compassionate conservative argument on the other.

Sanity -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 8:03:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn A bit simplistic, don't you think? It's your own idea, reworded a little bit is all. *quote:* I would counter, that we should perhaps stop electing people based on how they preach about family values, and stop destroying truly ruthless men, because they got blowjobs. Beginning first thing in the morning! *quote:* For every PC argument that can be labeled on one side, I can find a weak and silly compassionate conservative argument on the other. I believe you.

juliaoceania -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 8:09:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn We should stop being afraid to use our wealth as a weapon ... and for God's sakes, stop giving that wealth away for nothing. Saddam could have been bribed for one-hundreth of the cost of this war. Even today, Iran would sell out Iraq in a minute, just to get their hands on parts for their F-14's, M60's and 155mm field artillery. All stuff we are going to throw away, by the way. The Byzantines existed for a thousand years, using this system ... "Here is the gold, and here is what you need to do in order to get it. Call us when you are ready to take delivery, and if we don't hear from you, we will be in contact with your mortal enemy." Part of the idea is to give our tax dollars to war contractors.. if they bribed Saddam then we would not be giving gazillions to companies like Halliburton and Blackwater Edited to add, your suggestion is what empires do, not free republics

Sanity -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 8:20:54 PM)
We're not "giving gazillions" to anyone. They're going into a war zone and earning their rightful pay. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania ...we would not be giving gazillions to companies like Halliburton and Blackwater

juliaoceania -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 8:27:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity We're not "giving gazillions" to anyone. They're going into a war zone and earning their rightful pay. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania ...we would not be giving gazillions to companies like Halliburton and Blackwater Hmmmmm, so if there was no war, there would be no pay. Hence if you have a company that makes a gazillion dollars off the war you started... how fortunate for you, huh? A lot better than paying some puppet dictator a gazillion dollars when you can get the gazillion dollars no matter how much blood is spilled on both sides.. what's a few 1000 brain damaged Americans compared to a gazillion bucks?

Sinergy -> RE: The Vigintillion Dollar Question: How Can We Prevent Wars Like This? (3/24/2007 8:29:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity We're not "giving gazillions" to anyone. They're going into a war zone and earning their rightful pay. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania ...we would not be giving gazillions to companies like Halliburton and Blackwater Dude, They are on no-bid cost-plus contracts. This means they told the government how much it would cost, the government said "ok" and sent them in. Cost-plus means that they put down what their costs are, the plus is whatever percentage of the costs, and the government writes them a check. They are not "earning" their rightful pay. They can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and get paid millions or billions of dollars to do it. Is anything remotely different now that 5 years have gone by under their rebuilding efforts? Sinergy edited to remove a u.

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