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House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 8:11:45 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		We shall see, some of the more pro peace factions within the Democrat party are not on board with this bill. I have mixed feelings about it myself. I say bring them home now because since we cannot acheive our objectives it makes no sense to lose more blood or lives.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070321/pl_nm/iraq_usa_congress_dc

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt
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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 8:20:02 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

We shall see, some of the more pro peace factions within the Democrat party are not on board with this bill. I have mixed feelings about it myself. I say bring them home now because since we cannot acheive our objectives it makes no sense to lose more blood or lives.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070321/pl_nm/iraq_usa_congress_dc


What amuses me is that Monkeyboy is threatening a veto.

Sure, Braindead Man Walking, hammer another nail into the Republican party coffin.

Sinergy

_____________________________

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 8:20:51 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		I thought Pelosi said that Congress wouldn't do that

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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 8:23:04 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I thought Pelosi said that Congress wouldn't do that


wouldn't do what?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 8:31:31 PM   
dcnovice


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Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		There remains the very real question of whether the Senate will pass this.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 8:34:38 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I thought Pelosi said that Congress wouldn't do that


Hammer a nail into the Republican party congress?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 8:37:34 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

There remains the very real question of whether the Senate will pass this.


The title of this thread is the same as the headline of the link. I heard on democracy now that there were several House Democrats, like Maxine Waters (I love that woman!) who do not plan on signing it because they want immediate withdrawl, but some of these congress people were being bribed with passage of funding for their districts to sign on. We shall see

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 8:44:35 PM   
cyberdude611


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Status: offline 		It will never pass the Senate. That's where the problem is. These bills get bogged down with all the freaky Senate rules. It doesnt take much to squash the bill. They either filibuster or destroy it with amendments like they did with the minimum wage bill.

It's not the just the GOP either. There are several Democrats in the Senate that do not want a pullout right now. So the Democrats are going to fall well short of the votes needed to stop the filibuster. This bill will never reach Bush's desk.

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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 8:48:20 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

It will never pass the Senate. That's where the problem is. These bills get bogged down with all the freaky Senate rules. It doesnt take much to squash the bill. They either filibuster or destroy it with amendments like they did with the minimum wage bill.

It's not the just the GOP either. There are several Democrats in the Senate that do not want a pullout right now. So the Democrats are going to fall well short of the votes needed to stop the filibuster. This bill will never reach Bush's desk.


It is like the drive to go to war in the first place.

They have to stand up and be counted as people who opposed pulling the troops out of Iraq.

So 4 years from the time they voted to keep them there, and support for the war plummets from the top of the two steps up on the basement steps to the cellar floor, and they want to be reelected, they get to answer the question "dude, why did you vote / filibuster to keep our troops in Iraq?  What the fuck is wrong with your melon?"

From the Democratic side of the house, Al Gore is the only contender for the Democratic nomination who can stand up and say "I never once supported the war."  The inability of the other contenders to say this is not going to help them win the nomination.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 8:59:30 PM   
UtopianRanger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

We shall see, some of the more pro peace factions within the Democrat party are not on board with this bill. I have mixed feelings about it myself. I say bring them home now because since we cannot acheive our objectives it makes no sense to lose more blood or lives.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070321/pl_nm/iraq_usa_congress_dc


I see the bill as a hot air, delay tactic, crafted by war monger democrats steeped in support for the ADL. I personally favor a plan which employs immediate ''self withdrawl'' by the military


- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 3/21/2007 9:00:19 PM >

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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 9:04:11 PM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

It will never pass the Senate. That's where the problem is. These bills get bogged down with all the freaky Senate rules. It doesnt take much to squash the bill. They either filibuster or destroy it with amendments like they did with the minimum wage bill.

It's not the just the GOP either. There are several Democrats in the Senate that do not want a pullout right now. So the Democrats are going to fall well short of the votes needed to stop the filibuster. This bill will never reach Bush's desk.


It is like the drive to go to war in the first place.

They have to stand up and be counted as people who opposed pulling the troops out of Iraq.

So 4 years from the time they voted to keep them there, and support for the war plummets from the top of the two steps up on the basement steps to the cellar floor, and they want to be reelected, they get to answer the question "dude, why did you vote / filibuster to keep our troops in Iraq?  What the fuck is wrong with your melon?"

From the Democratic side of the house, Al Gore is the only contender for the Democratic nomination who can stand up and say "I never once supported the war."  The inability of the other contenders to say this is not going to help them win the nomination.

Sinergy


Depends on their constituants. Although national polls show one thing....the polls in their states or districts could be saying something very different. That's what is tricky about our government. We are not a popular-vote democracy. We are a constitutional republic. These national polls are meaningless. Remember back in the early days...there was no such thing as opinion polls. Congressmen held meetings in town halls where the people told them what they supported. Those congressmen then go back to Washington and debate with Congress on the issues. And that is what the founding fathers wanted.
It is like that way today just that we have many different tools to get our opinions out there so people dont go to the town hall anymore. Congressmen know what the national polls say...but they are not being re-elected based on those national polls. They are being re-elected based on what their supporters in the state or district think. And that could be very different than the national polls. Say a congressmen represents a very pro-military district...that congressmen is going to be in favor of the war even if the national polls show massive disapproval. Or you may have a congressmen in an anti-military district. He will be against the war no matter if we are winning or not.

That's how a Republic works...

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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 9:09:24 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		There will be districts that are pro occupation, but more and more people are tired of this war, and they want our troops home . The numbers are significantly in favor of withdrawl. This is not a close opinion poll.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 9:29:32 PM   
farglebargle


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Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		The real problem for Bush, is that all the hangers on, are dropping off.

SURE, people loved being Neocons when things were rocking and rolling.

But get caught up in the neverending scandals, and watch your base wither away.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 9:41:37 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

But get caught up in the neverending scandals, and watch your base wither away.



What base?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 9:48:29 PM   
Royalton


Posts: 53
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		I'd see they need glasses.  With the current distribution of votes in the Congress it is very difficult that they could pass anything, and there is always the presidential veto.  If theing improve, even a little, in Iraq, the Democrats might be digging their own grave for 2008.

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 9:51:24 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

It will never pass the Senate. That's where the problem is. These bills get bogged down with all the freaky Senate rules. It doesnt take much to squash the bill. They either filibuster or destroy it with amendments like they did with the minimum wage bill.

It's not the just the GOP either. There are several Democrats in the Senate that do not want a pullout right now. So the Democrats are going to fall well short of the votes needed to stop the filibuster. This bill will never reach Bush's desk.


It is like the drive to go to war in the first place.

They have to stand up and be counted as people who opposed pulling the troops out of Iraq.

So 4 years from the time they voted to keep them there, and support for the war plummets from the top of the two steps up on the basement steps to the cellar floor, and they want to be reelected, they get to answer the question "dude, why did you vote / filibuster to keep our troops in Iraq?  What the fuck is wrong with your melon?"

From the Democratic side of the house, Al Gore is the only contender for the Democratic nomination who can stand up and say "I never once supported the war."  The inability of the other contenders to say this is not going to help them win the nomination.

Sinergy


That's funny, there was a poll last week that showed that Al Gore was more popular with Democrats than Senators Clinton or Aba Daba.

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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 9:51:33 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		I know it's fun bashing the other team and all, ( actually, these days, it feels like we're picking on the neighborhood 'tard.... ) but I understand that some people sincerely believe that an American Empire is the right thing to do.

Truth be told... If Bush *HADN'T* fucked this up? Let's suggest that he kept Bremer out of the fucking thing, and put someone intelligent and sophisticated enough to pull it off into the gig. He'd have kept the Republician Guard, named it the Free Iraqi Police or something, and put em through basic, then letting them handle the occupation duties.

NOW, the task of getting the Shi'a , Sunni and Kurds on the same page. Let's reduce it to Shi'a/Sunni.

That's been going on since what? 700AD? Iffn y'all partition it, then you've failed to create a western-style democracy.

Should that even be the goal? Maybe another Turkey would have been more appropo.

I think you get hung up on resolving the Shi'a/Sunni thing. The more I see this shit there, the more I appreciate the concept of "Separation of Church and State".



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 10:29:44 PM   
caitlyn


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Joined: 12/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I say bring them home now because since we cannot acheive our objectives it makes no sense to lose more blood or lives.


If someone knew beyond doubt that we could not reach our objective, I would agree.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 10:32:47 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I say bring them home now because since we cannot acheive our objectives it makes no sense to lose more blood or lives.


If someone knew beyond doubt that we could not reach our objective, I would agree.


What is our objective at this point? Coming to consensus on that would help a lot.


< Message edited by dcnovice -- 3/21/2007 10:33:13 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: House Democrats see Iraq withdrawal bill win - 3/21/2007 11:45:23 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I do not think that Iraq can be one country.  The three major
ethnic/religious groups will most likely splinter into 3 different
small nations.  Even then, they would still be fighting.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to farglebargle)
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