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German lawyer for Zundel charged with denying Holocaust - 3/20/2007 5:17:29 PM   
Jack45


Posts: 220
Joined: 12/20/2006
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This follows on the conviction of Zundel which was discussed here.
Last week  in Germany Max Planck chemist Germar Rudolf was sentenced to 3 years in prison for his investigations at Auschwitz.
Where are the civil libertarians? All of Europe, and the U.S., have repeatedly lectured the Islamic world to be more open to freedom of ideas, freedom of speech, even for unpopular ideas, unapproved speech and thoughts.

Europe shame on you. Germany has learned nothing.


quote:

Attorney Sylvia Stolz represented Zundel in his first trial, which collapsed after Stolz was banned from proceedings on grounds she was trying to sabotage them.



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RE: German lawyer for Zundel charged with denying Holoc... - 3/20/2007 7:29:56 PM   
Termyn8or


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It was only a matter of time.

You know exactly who the people are who are behind this shit. Now I am going to talk about Jews, but not your average Hebrew on the street in Tel Aviv. Oh yes, some of them have an attitude too, but it's like anyone else. Some lie and steal, and some get ahead using their brain. They are taught to value and get the most out of a superior education. I have no problem with that.

Let me get it out there now, so I don't get flamed too badly, what I criticize is mainly the actions of the elite, and those who are in cahoots with them. I read an article not too long ago that said Israel has the second most powerful lobby in Washington. I think the guy needs to do a little more math.

Well they have lobbies in many countries, they finance there "chosen" people to win elections. And when it doesn't go their way they say it is a "slap in the face for democracy". That happened in Austria a few years ago. The People of the country voting their choice was a slap in the face. Make a fixt next time
!

I am talking about the actions of Israel's leaders. I've said it before, I think they have the only worse government on the planet than ours.

Get the logic on, only one group would lose anything by debunkifying the exagerations of the whole holocaust industry. When it is illegal to tell the truth, something is wrong, and Israel has their dirty fingers in every country's pie except for the ones slated for a regime change.

Jack45, would you like to know the real two reasons for the Iraq invasion ? I mean the REAL reasons.

1. Israel wants some of their territory for a proposed "greater Israel". Ariel Sharon himself proposed the map, and even after he was gone, they seem to be following the same path. This invasion of Iran they want would be coupled with attacks by Israel on parts of Libya and who knows, I don't have the map in front of me. I think they want a little bit more of Egypt or something as well.

2. After years of being fucked with pretty bad, Saddam was going to retaliate. He took some preliminary steps toward converting to the Euro. This would put "our" oil companies at a disatvantage to say the least, but when you couple that fact with all the billions of US currency they "found" in the banks there, it is obvious that after converting the 12th largest oil exporting nation to a foreign currency, he was going to flood the market with US currency, devaluing it even more.

Tell you what, in his position I would have done the same thing. What did you expect him to do ? Operate in Bush and Sharon's best interests ? Fat chance. So of course he had to go.

Not too long ago some Brits were arrested for something that supposedly was not illegal in England, but EU law superceded English law. Germany's government is introducing a measure that would make it illegal to deny the holocaust in all EU countries.

And this is stiff, you can't even question about if it was really six million. Many historians will tell you that for one, with the Jews they started out with versus the ones left over afterward, there is no possible way it was six million. Others will tell you that even if Hitler did indeed run six million people throught the camps, they were not all Jews.

What's more, many things happened just after WW2 which were blmed on the Nazis, but were done by the allies or someone else. The Katyn forest massacre in Poland for example. I personally know someone who's Grandfather was there, and he said the Russians did it, yet in the schools they teach the kids that the Germans did it. Now this guy started radio solidarity in Poland, he built the transmitter and figured out the frequencies to blot out the sound on some of the most populat TV shows in the area, replacing it with their message. He actually had to turn Lek Waleska down because the message was too long, they had already been almost caught several times. I'll have to start a thread on that little operation. I used to ride home from work with this guy and he told me all about it.

The government did figure out what they were doing, and he wound up behind bars for seven months. Getting out, not ashamed in any way for what he had done, he wanted to start a business, but being a target they gave him so much red tape he emigrated to the US. Even though he was only held on suspicion, this was a month or two at a time, they have no habeus copus there, of course neither do we anymore but, well, if the sheeple stay asleep, we will lose all of it, so that's just one nail in the coffin.

So now in the US they arrest a guy who got off a plane and said, probably jokingly that the landing was so bad that he tought the pilot might be drunk or something. That is now called "inducing panic", even though it happened after the flight had landed.

I will be very interested in seeing how this case goes. The guy did not shout "The pilot's drunk, the pilot's drunk, just made a comment, but now the crew needs to be alcohol and drug tested. Under this shit they call law, even a casual remark calls for drug testing. The main problem I think is that he cost the company money, because the crew was grounded until an indepentent company came in with the negative results. So there was a delay.

How did the TV news portray it ? "Watch what you say when you get off the plane", not, let's impeach all these bastards who are trying to take away any last vestige of liberty we may have.

Watch people, watch. In the future, once they get the foot in the door with this, it may become illegal to speak out against an incimbent in a political race, this in supposedly the land of the free and the home of the brave.(there are already some regulations in place about that)

I think it is more like the land of the fee and the home of the slave. I am not saying anywhere else is better, But why does it have to be so bad ? They are breaking the REAL LAW of this country with this shit. If I was on that newscast live I would've spoken my mind, and I know I would get canned and I would know that I am useless except as a talking head. Even in that situation I think I would've done it.

If I were President, I would cut off all aid to Irael in the first few minutes of taking office. Interest would skyrocket, so I would nationalize the debt. Then I would kick Greenspan out, along with many many others. I would abolish many many federal agencies.

Believe it or not I would not abolish the IRS, it would be in place simply to keep companies in line, paying, the burden would shift to big business. Of course prices would rise, but the average Joe would have more to spend. It would all come out in the wash.

I have gone too far on this tangent at this point, I am going to stop now.

T

(in reply to Jack45)
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RE: German lawyer for Zundel charged with denying Holoc... - 3/21/2007 12:50:30 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jack45

This follows on the conviction of Zundel which was discussed here.
Last week  in Germany Max Planck chemist Germar Rudolf was sentenced to 3 years in prison for his investigations at Auschwitz.
Where are the civil libertarians? All of Europe, and the U.S., have repeatedly lectured the Islamic world to be more open to freedom of ideas, freedom of speech, even for unpopular ideas, unapproved speech and thoughts.

Europe shame on you. Germany has learned nothing.


quote:

Attorney Sylvia Stolz represented Zundel in his first trial, which collapsed after Stolz was banned from proceedings on grounds she was trying to sabotage them.




It is understandable that the Germans have a law that makes it illegal to deny the holocaust. Germany as a country has openly and whole heartedly admitted to its war crimes and fully accepts responsibility and wants to move on. This makes it about the only country in the world to fully accept responsibility for its history, something the US, Britain, France and many other countries have yet to do. Where I can understand the law in Germany, I would reject such a law elsewhere as a curtailment of free speach. I think it is far more effective to ridicule people who hold such wrong headed views of history.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Jack45)
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RE: German lawyer for Zundel charged with denying Holoc... - 3/21/2007 2:05:53 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
Maybe Germany feels they owe a debt to the Jewish? and also that they have to do more than most? It isn't beyond the realms of possibility, nor beyond the realms of a reasonable stance to take.


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Jack45)
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RE: German lawyer for Zundel charged with denying Holoc... - 3/21/2007 3:01:25 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jack45

This follows on the conviction of Zundel which was discussed here.
Last week  in Germany Max Planck chemist Germar Rudolf was sentenced to 3 years in prison for his investigations at Auschwitz.
Where are the civil libertarians? All of Europe, and the U.S., have repeatedly lectured the Islamic world to be more open to freedom of ideas, freedom of speech, even for unpopular ideas, unapproved speech and thoughts.

Europe shame on you. Germany has learned nothing.


quote:

Attorney Sylvia Stolz represented Zundel in his first trial, which collapsed after Stolz was banned from proceedings on grounds she was trying to sabotage them.







What a tragedy it is for a government to encumber/constrain freedom of thought - No matter the evils of its past.




- R


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to Jack45)
Profile   Post #: 5
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