quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

A post in the health and safety forum as well as one I made got my mind working which led me to post this topic of discussion. There is many different ways to inflict pain, so for the purposes of an example, I am going to use cutting since its the most commonly known form of self infliction.

Typically, we view people who cut themselves as being "unhealthy", but after some thought, I cant seem to draw the line between unhealthy self infliction and healthy SM play.

Self-cutting and burning behaviors are common in victims of sexual abuse.

If I were to take a blade and cut myself so I can experience an endorphin rush, how is this any different than going to a sadist and being cut to experience the same endorphin rush?

What is it that makes self inflicted pain such an "unhealthy behavior"?

I think that is largely a matter of both motivation and degree.
Is the pain done in a fit of anger or self-hatred?  Or just
for the endorphin rush?  Will there be potential long-term
consequences to your health?

People talk about having "urges" to cut themselves. I also hear people talk about their need or urges to be beaten by their sadist. In my observations, both seem to come from an addiction or craving for endorphins. Is the urge to hurt yourself any different than the urge to have someone else hurt you?

I think that it is largely a matter of control.  If self-inflicted, then
you are the one in control.  If you give control to another they
call the shots.

If self inflicted pain is an "unhealthy behavior", then how is pain inflicted by another person not an "unhealthy behavior"?

Playing Devil's Advocate?

If I were to cut myself under a relatively safe and sane mindset, out of the desire to experience endorphins and not out of a feeling of self loathing or depression, would you consider this to be a "healthy behavior"?

If you took care to not cause permanent damage, yes.

Hypothetically, if someone with a history of self inflicted hurt, were to stop this behavioral pattern by discovering SM and having other people inflict the injury, would the SM be viewed as just as "unhealthy" as the self inflicted hurt?

I think this would go back to the motivation behind wanting
the pain.

An example would be the movie, The Secretary. The protagonist was able to give up self cutting by finding her dominant and SM. The movie portrayed her self inflicted pain in an unhealthy light, but the SM and the dominant as the savior that made it stop. In reality, isn't this merely replacing one addiction with another? Much like someone who goes from crack to cocaine..

Her self-cutting was obsessive. Her Dom was obsessive about her.
You could argue that he was her new addiction.

Personally, I have never cut myself or self inflicted any injury, nor am I a masochist so I cant speak from any experience. I am curious to hear what others have to say on these questions.

We talk constantly about pain on these forums, but its always pain inflicted by others. I am curious as to how self inflicted pain is so different.

You ask very provocative questions, the responses should be
quite revealing, Mad Rabbit. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
What is it that makes self inflicted pain such an "unhealthy behavior"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
What is it that makes self inflicted pain such an "unhealthy behavior"?

In general, it's not the behavior in itself which is the problem- it's the lack of control over the behavior, the motivation for the behavior and the inability to stop the behavior to the point that it inteferes with having a healthy functioning life.



IMO the Secretary didn't give up cutting because she found her dominant and SM- she gave up cutting because she found a secure sense of self- which just happened to be through S&M.

i agree. as a cutter in my teen years [for the record cutting isnt included in play] i would crave cutting the same way i crave my spankings, but for different reasons and with [not so] different outcomes.

When i would cut it was to remember i am still alive [seeing the blood] and to make my uncontrollable crying cease [worked like a charm]. In the end i felt calm, satisfied, reassured and there was no confusion. i crave spankings when i feel confused about myself or even my place in the household [rarely] and i ask sometimes for a spanking because it leaves me in the same state of mind as cutting would. it is a great sense of relief to know who i am, just by one simple act. it might sound unstable to you, but its what works for me


side note- i stopped cutting many years before i was into BDSM, but my first s&m experience was shortly before my first cutting. connected? maybe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

IMO the Secretary didn't give up cutting because she found her dominant and SM- she gave up cutting because she found a secure sense of self- which just happened to be through S&M.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
What is it that makes self inflicted pain such an "unhealthy behavior"?

In general, it's not the behavior in itself which is the problem- it's the lack of control over the behavior, the motivation for the behavior and the inability to stop the behavior to the point that it inteferes with having a healthy functioning life.

This can be equally true of needing pain from others- both can be done just fine and healthy and both can become very damaging and unhealthy. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

If I were to take a blade and cut myself so I can experience an endorphin rush, how is this any different than going to a sadist and being cut to experience the same endorphin rush?

What is it that makes self inflicted pain such an "unhealthy behavior"?